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Thread: The Actual Facts About Bayless' Assists Without The Smell Test or Seeing Eye Dog Test

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default The Actual Facts About Bayless' Assists Without The Smell Test or Seeing Eye Dog Test

    Since the podcast mentioned at least one set of numbers I will also present at least one set of numbers

    Bayless is averaging 13.5 mpg

    Of all players in the NBA averaging 15 mpg or less Bayless is #2 in Assists Per Game.

    He is ahead of

    Jeff Teague
    C.J. Watson
    M. Chalmers
    A.C. Law

    among others.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=ast_per_g

    If you raise it to players who are playing between 20 – 25 mpg vs Bayless 13.5 mpg Bayless is ranked 8th in the NBA is Assists Per Game

    He is ahead of these 20 – 25 mpg guys in Assists Per Game

    Eric Maynor
    Steve Blake
    Will Bynum
    Earl Watson
    S. Livingston

    among others

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=ast_per_g


    Now, compare Bayless Assists per 36 minutes with some other NBA Point Guards.

    2010-11 Numbers
    ----------------------
    Bayless 6.8 Assists per 36 Minutes.
    Collison 5.1 Assists per 36 Minutes

    Bayless is also a year younger than Collison

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...collida01.html

    Over his two plus seasons in the NBA his Assists per 36 Minutes have continued to go up.

    08-09------4.4
    09-10------4.7
    10-11------6.8

    Will they continue to go up?

    Compare Bayless Assists per Game at Age 22 which he is with Calderon at 24 and Billups at 22

    Calderon----7.0
    Bayless------6.8 so far in 10-11
    Billups-------4.2

    Now lets look at Calderon and Billups best in their career year Assists Per 36 Minutes.

    Calderon's career best-------9.8
    Billups' career best----------8.6

    Will Bayless Assists per 36 Minutes continue to go up to 10 or more?

    Will Bayless Assists per Game eventually get to 10 or more?

    Only time will tell what the facts will be.

    People can cut this upside down, inside out, left to right, right to left top to bottom, bottom to top or diagonal and even give it the smell test and seeing eye dog test, but what I presented are the facts.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Mon Nov 22nd, 2010 at 07:12 PM.
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    Im a gigantic Bayless fan so you're not going to get much of an argument out of me.

    With that being said...let's just wait for it.

    I just happen to have a feeling we are going to be very very pleased w what we see.

    But i also wouldn't be surprised if Bayless wasn't a bargaining chip for Nash. I assume this because I've heard Bayless and his family have been friends with the Gentry's as well as the Colangelo's for quite some time.

    This kid was the biggest deal in phx bball since Mike Bibby. And I think most of my friends back in phx would be very eager to get their hands on him.
    Last edited by bearvon; Mon Nov 22nd, 2010 at 08:20 PM.

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    Quote bearvon wrote: View Post
    But i also wouldn't be surprised if Bayless wasn't a bargaining chip for Nash.
    Why would the Raps want Nash??? They are rebuilding, and Nash is O-L-D. I love the guy, and he is a great player, but it makes no sense to trade for him. Phoenix would want some valuable assets in return (Bayless and others), and Toronto would be stuck in that no-man's land of not rebuliding and not contending...like it has been the past few years.

    So everyone cut the talk of trading for veteran players. Lets see BC use expiring contracts and useful vets (Peja, Reggie) to trade for developing young players and draft picks. And we should be eating some bad vet contracts (a la OKC) that net some good picks in return.

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    I don't think this specific team needs Nash. But the team does need to fill seats and draw up excitement.

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    Quote bearvon wrote: View Post
    Im a gigantic Bayless fan so you're not going to get much of an argument out of me.

    With that being said...let's just wait for it.

    I just happen to have a feeling we are going to be very very pleased w what we see.

    But i also wouldn't be surprised if Bayless wasn't a bargaining chip for Nash. I assume this because I've heard Bayless and his family have been friends with the Gentry's as well as the Colangelo's for quite some time.

    This kid was the biggest deal in phx bball since Mike Bibby. And I think most of my friends back in phx would be very eager to get their hands on him.
    As much as I want to laugh at this post, there's this tingling sensation on the back of my neck that indicates that there's something up BC's sleeve. I just have this feeling.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    As much as I want to laugh at this post, there's this tingling sensation on the back of my neck that indicates that there's something up BC's sleeve. I just have this feeling.
    Ok. But i do hope you can differentiate between "i wouldn't be surprised" and "you can take it to the bank.".

    I also *hope* that BC let's this current roster play out a little.

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    I have never watched Bayless play, and many have told me he is like Jack, a 2 in a PGs body. But these stats are nice to see, I think we'll soon find out if he is a good passer, or at least a decent one.

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    Default Stop the insanity!!!!!

    Quote bearvon wrote: View Post
    I don't think this specific team needs Nash. But the team does need to fill seats and draw up excitement.
    Nash is old. You really think management is that incompetent that they would sell the future on the premise of adding more seats this season? In the process they would be dooming the franchise for years and reducing attendance they next 3 years.

    Also, what makes you think Nash wants to come here? (Non-rhetorical question)

    He wants to win a championship or at least have chance. This team does not, right now.

    Nash does not live in Toronto or even Canada during the off-season. He lives in NYC. What makes you think someone from Victoria holds Toronto in such a fond place in their heart that they would forego a chance in win in the dying years of their career to come here?

    We need young players with their best years ahead of them, not greybeards who reaching the end of their careers.

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    Thank you Buddahfan, you have just made me feel slightly better about our pg situation going forward.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    I'm not a big stats guy. I like watching games and drawing conclusions from what I see. I pay attention to stats but don't go out of way to do a lot of research. That's why I appreciate when posters like Buddhafan take the time and bring to light statistics that are interesting, relevant and timely.
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    The assists numbers mean nothing. Toronto's playstyle does not influence pg ast numbers in the slightest and when combined with our lack of shooting ability just adds more to the fact. At this point all we can rely on bayless to provide is a quicker, bigger, and younger body over jack.

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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    The assists numbers mean nothing. Toronto's playstyle does not influence pg ast numbers in the slightest and when combined with our lack of shooting ability just adds more to the fact. At this point all we can rely on bayless to provide is a quicker, bigger, and younger body over jack.
    I think you have a hole in your screen door.

    4sure

    Say what?

    On second thought I think you have two big holes in your screen door.

    The flag is up

    I don't think that is funny

    Buddahfan that is your lowest shot yet

    Yea, yea it is
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Here are some more facts

    2007-08 was the last college year for Bayless at Arizona and Westbrook at UCLA

    Bayless was a freshman and Westbrook a sophomore

    Bayless
    ------------
    MPG----35.7
    PPG----19.7
    APG-----4.0
    PPP-----1.57 PPP = Points per possession

    Westbrook
    ----------------
    MPG----33.8
    PPG----12.7
    APG-----4.3
    PPP-----1.27

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=36075

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player...playerId=31663
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    OK Buddha, it seems you're quite high on Bayless. But knowing your man-crush on Amir, who'd you rather ....?
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    hope Jay will leave Jerryd in the pitch at least 20 mpg
    Let's go Raptors!

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    Indeed....this is satisfying to know. I knew basically nothing about Bayless, except for his name, and that I thought he was pretty good because he used to play for Portland. Hearing lots about what a crappy point guard he is was kinda depressing.

    Youth movement! Underway! I wonder how much of the anti-Bayless rhetoric was simply because he now plays for Toronto. Seems for some reasons (some more obvious than others) this team has a target on its back from the Media.

    Kind of a tangent, but, if anyone's played 2k11, and you hear the comments in the game like "Bosh called this team out for its lack of effort down the stretch".... Bosh was on the sideline for all of the god-danged stretch. Coulda played, but didn't, as the team was fighting for a playoff spot. Serious disrespect for the team, now spilling into virtual disrespect. The worst kind.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    Indeed....this is satisfying to know. I knew basically nothing about Bayless, except for his name, and that I thought he was pretty good because he used to play for Portland. Hearing lots about what a crappy point guard he is was kinda depressing.

    Youth movement! Underway! I wonder how much of the anti-Bayless rhetoric was simply because he now plays for Toronto. Seems for some reasons (some more obvious than others) this team has a target on its back from the Media.

    Kind of a tangent, but, if anyone's played 2k11, and you hear the comments in the game like "Bosh called this team out for its lack of effort down the stretch".... Bosh was on the sideline for all of the god-danged stretch. Coulda played, but didn't, as the team was fighting for a playoff spot. Serious disrespect for the team, now spilling into virtual disrespect. The worst kind.
    I saw both Bayless and Westbrook play in the Pac10 and against one another in 2007-08 before they were drafted in June of 2008.

    Bayless was better offensively, 1.57 PPP vs Westbrook's 1.27 PPP - Source: ESPN.

    Westbrook did have a slightly higher Assist Per Game number 4.3 vs 4.0 in about 3 mpg less than Bayless 32 vs 35 (truncated)

    Bayless problem when handling the ball is his high turnover rate. His career best in this area has been 2.6 per 36 minutes which he accomplished last season

    His career average so far is 2.9 turnovers per 36 minutes.

    However, there have been literally hundreds of times in the history of the NBA that a player has averaged 2.6 or more turnovers per 36 minutes.

    The most assists per game ever attained by a player in a single season while averaging at least 2.6 turnovers per game was recorded in 1989-90 by none other than John Stockton.

    In that season he averaged 3.4 turnovers per 36 minutes and 14.5 APG

    Both Stockton and Magic Johnson recorded at least 2.6 turnovers per 36 minutes in a single season at least 8 times each in their careers.

    The second highest number of APG while recording at least 2.6 turnovers per 36 minutes is happening right now.

    Rondo is averaging 3.3 turnovers per 36 minutes and 14.3 APG

    The most assists per 36 minutes in season that a player has recorded in NBA history while averaging at least 2.6 turnovers per 36 minutes and while playing at least 2,000 minutes in a season happened in 1987-88. Stockton that season averaged 14.3 assists per 36 minutes and 3.3 turnovers per 36 minutes.


    What Bayless needs to do is increase his current assists per 36 minute rate of 6.8 without increasing and preferably decreasing his current turnover rate per 36 minutes.

    He is currently at 6.8 assists per 36 minutes and 4.1 turnovers per 36 minutes.

    If he can increase his assists per 36 minutes by even only 10 percent and get his turnover rate per 36 minutes down to last season's rate of 2.6 he will have pretty good numbers in this area.

    Assists per 36 minutes-------7.5
    Turnovers per 36 minutes----2.6
    Turnover Ratio--------------2.9 which is pretty good

    Can he do it? Got me


    stats
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Tue Nov 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 AM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    Guys.

    Whats he make.

    Thats all you need to think about.

    BC has nothing up any sleeve. He is cutting salary to prepare for the Lockout. The MLSE has a lot of experience with this stuff, and they are powerful in the owners group. Trust they know whats coming, and they are preparing accordingly.

    Cut cut cut. Get used to it.

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    Which might be a reason why Peja won't be moved and the TPE not used.

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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Guys.

    Whats he make.

    Thats all you need to think about.

    BC has nothing up any sleeve. He is cutting salary to prepare for the Lockout. The MLSE has a lot of experience with this stuff, and they are powerful in the owners group. Trust they know whats coming, and they are preparing accordingly.

    Cut cut cut. Get used to it.
    most logical argument i've heard all week, thumbs up

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