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Thread: Is Stojakovic a trade piece or something more?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Default Is Stojakovic a trade piece or something more?

    In my opinion there is one massive thing missing on this team: someone who is a proven winner and has been in big game situations in the the crunch. Some may say that Barbosa fills that role, but one thing to keep in mind about Barbosa is that he was a sixth man and never had significant success as a starter. The Suns were about Nash and Amar'e.

    Enter Peja

    For those who aren't familiar with him, Peja is a former all NBA second team player who is considered on of the greatest shooters ever in the NBA. He was a member of the Sacramento Kings squad that took the 2001-2002 Lakers (Shaq-Kobe dynasty) to seven games and only lost the series due to a blown call on a late buzzer beater. He played a massive role on a very good team in very big games and is a proven winner.

    This leads to the point of this post which is that maybe the assumption that Peja was brought in to be trade bait is inaccurate. This is a guy who brings winning to this franchise and who can act as a great mentor to guys like Kleiza and Bargnani. I am hoping he was brought in not with the intention of trading him, but rather with the intention of letting his contract expire then giving him a new deal at significantly less money.

    I know the current direction of the franchise is about getting young players and flexibility but at some point you need to start establishing a winning culture in the Raps locker room and I think Peja could be the first step of that process.
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    7-8 years too late...

    What things can he teach Bargnani, that wasn't taught by Rasho? defense xD?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Stojakovic will play a significant role in the second unit with Kleiza. He can play the 2 as well (he was behind Bellinelli in the SG depth chart). It will only be prudent for him to play because BC is in a position to SHOWCASE him before the trade deadline (much like Evans people). The Raps are also dead last in the 3pt category for the league - this man has a role until he gets moved. Sticking Peja at the end of the bench will not sell his services to contenders looking for someone to stretch the floor. BC is is playing "show and sell".
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    If he is one of the best 3 point shooters ever, can he coach DeMar and Sonny a bit in that area? Work with them before/after practice?

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    /boggle

    You really want Peja taking minutes from a guy like Julian Wright, who could actually play a part in the team's future?

    This whole idea of a 'winning culture' is overblown nonsense. Did guys like Rasho and AP help the Raps develop a winning culture in the Bosh years? Did Charles Oakley and Antonio Davis help toughen up Vince? Players are who they are; they might learn a few things about how to handle themselves off the court, how to prepare for games and how to do the little things ON the court from veterans, but when it comes right down to it the fire, passion and drive needed to improve your game and succeed and win games comes from within, not from a 'winning culture'.

    In my opinion the idea of a 'winning culture' is a typical example of a sports cliche getting widely adopted because idiotic broadcasters and writers will trot it out as an explanation for team success instead of focusing on how good organizations acquire quality talent that fits their systems and maximizes their talents while minimizing their weaknesses. What you call a 'winning culture' results from ownership spending the money necessary to win, management and scouting doing their jobs effectively and coaches who refuse to award sloppy, lazy, selfish play with minutes.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    /boggle

    You really want Peja taking minutes from a guy like Julian Wright, who could actually play a part in the team's future?

    This whole idea of a 'winning culture' is overblown nonsense. Did guys like Rasho and AP help the Raps develop a winning culture in the Bosh years? Did Charles Oakley and Antonio Davis help toughen up Vince? Players are who they are; they might learn a few things about how to handle themselves off the court, how to prepare for games and how to do the little things ON the court from veterans, but when it comes right down to it the fire, passion and drive needed to improve your game and succeed and win games comes from within, not from a 'winning culture'.

    In my opinion the idea of a 'winning culture' is a typical example of a sports cliche getting widely adopted because idiotic broadcasters and writers will trot it out as an explanation for team success instead of focusing on how good organizations acquire quality talent that fits their systems and maximizes their talents while minimizing their weaknesses. What you call a 'winning culture' results from ownership spending the money necessary to win, management and scouting doing their jobs effectively and coaches who refuse to award sloppy, lazy, selfish play with minutes.
    I'm not trying to suggest that a "winning culture" is the be all end all to team success or that it is anywhere close to being as important as good management and talent acquisition, but there is something to be said for having players on your roster who know how to perform in big games and who can be a good force in the locker room. I have always considered a winning culture to mean that the team not only wants to win but believes that they will win. I think Vets like Peja are the first step in establishing that mentality.

    Oakley and Davis may not of helped to toughen up Vince, but I think you'll agree their presence on that team made a huge difference to the mentality of that roster. You replace them with guys that don't have that tough mentality and I don't think those Raptor teams would have had any success. If you've played competitive sports before you'll know that believing you are a winner is very important. Teams that walk into a season with the idea that they are good but not good enough to compete with the best will not amount to anything. Players like Peja are proven winners, and while injuries have slowed him down, he is a guy that can bring a winners mentality to this club, and they are going to desperately need that in the next few years.

    The rebuild has begun and that is great. We have some good young players, lots of cap space and flexibility, and a couple picks, but all of that is useless if we can't at some point establish this club as a winner.
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    Saw Peja and Bayless on the Raptor Today show in interviews. Bayless was really articulate and seemed genuinely happy to be here and looking forward to the opportunity. Unlike other interviews with players who have canned answers he was very forthcoming about some aspects of his personal life and other basketball experiences. Now if he can grab onto that pg role!! Peja on the other hand sounded philosophical and as a veteran should but willing to take on whatever the club wanted him to do. So thats a start. He says he is well and ready to go but under no allusions because of his expiring contract and what that may mean. We just have to wait and see how JT uses him and how he responds.

    I havent seen him in a couple of years so have no idea how he plays currently but he was like the mad bomber a few years ago. If he still has the shot he could play the situational role of filling it up when needed and at crunch time as another option. However he is too expensive at his current rate obviously.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    The rebuild has begun and that is great. We have some good young players, lots of cap space and flexibility, and a couple picks, but all of that is useless if we can't at some point establish this club as a winner.
    I guess my question then is why Peja and why now? If you're going to spend the money and use a roster spot, why not get one of the many vets who can still contribute and be a useful backup when injuries hit? Furthermore, while the rebuild has begun, the club still hasn't acquired a franchise-type player that you could see as a #1 (or even a #2) option, and they aren't going to really begin winning until they do.

    I mean I guess if he'll take the vet's minimum to sit on the bench then sure, why not it can't hurt, but if I had to choose between a 2nd round pick/project type player or Peja, I'd take the project, at least until the team finds it's franchise player.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    jay has lots of options now, when he needs the court to be more spaced to get more room for barbosa to drive or kleiza to post he can put in peja. Peja is not a terrible player just not worth his contract at this point in his career. He can and should be used as a counter punch during games.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    I agree that Peja is a big question mark and a baffling acquisition. I understand the financial flexibility and expiring contract part of the trade, but we now have a serious log jam at the 3. I see Bayless fitting in like a glove. Peja is a veteran who will be competing for minutes. I can really see him only playing situationaly when the clock is expiring at the 1/4, 1/2, end of game and Triano does his offense for defense subs or maybe when the opposing 3 is low quality and Peja's defence won't be a huge hindrance. We could use the upgraded 3 point shooting.

    However, I would be pissed if I was Linus, Wright, or Weems. I wouldn't want anyone cutting into my minutes. This seems like a potential for some mid season drama in the locker room.

    So maybe Peja simply is trade bait. From a perspective of getting more wins and improving the team, to me this trade doesn't make sense.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Tmar's Avatar
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    He was brought in just so Matt Devlin could yell "Punjabi" everytime he hits a three!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pJBhgh46-A&feature=fvsr

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    In my opinion there is one massive thing missing on this team: someone who is a proven winner and has been in big game situations in the the crunch. Some may say that Barbosa fills that role, but one thing to keep in mind about Barbosa is that he was a sixth man and never had significant success as a starter. The Suns were about Nash and Amar'e.

    Enter Peja
    The main problem here is that he's only a shadow of himself now at this stage and he's admitted as much. Could he stick long term? Sure but at best he's a role player who needs his minutes low to prevent injury.

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    We now (and for a few games maybe) have a guy that can be subbed in and is shooting 45% from 3 this year. You put him on the floor and it opens up lanes because everybody will still give him that kind of respect. He's been hurt so we don't know what kind of defence he brings to the table. In a zone he wouldn't hurt us that badly (as long as he's healthy). And he says that he's healthier than he's been in years.

    He gives us something we don't have. People saying we should have got him 7-8 years ago, yeah and we should have drafted Kobe and then put him out there with Aquaman and Scooby Doo. Can we have a serious conversation here? Please?

    Until we see what this guy can do, as fans, can we not approach this with a cautious optimism?

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    Hey Apollo, where did Peja say he was only a shadow of his former self?

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Read it on RealGM or HoopsHype a couple weeks before the trade. Basically he said he can't do what he did in the past, which was an obvious statement in my opinion. Anyway, I looked but it's tough to find stuff on either site because they have no internal search engine to look up old articles.

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    Peja can still help us.... continue our 3 point streak!

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    This is Triano's take on Peja role: "'Probably situational right now but I don’t think I want to close the book on him,' Triano said of Stojakovic. 'We’ve got to find a way for him to fit into our rotation and if he does that and knocks down shots, he’s going to help us.'"

    If Peja plays then it comes at the expense of Weems or Kleiza. I personally don't want to see that.

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    Toronto is actually ranked 3rd last in 3pt made this season...
    so peja will help us there... for a bit anyway.
    sure we can probably trade his 15 mil expiring contract away for a better player with a longer contract,
    but with the new CBA, holding on to Peja, especially if he plays well, might be a better option for the team.
    Personally, i think he will be traded though, because there's too much of a logjam in the wing position with kleiza, weems, derozan all capable of playing the SF, and peja can't really play the 4, he might be the odd man out.

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    This peja trade seems like a BC try it on before you re-sign it deal. If peja can perform and is re-signable for less then keep him.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The main problem here is that he's only a shadow of himself now at this stage and he's admitted as much. Could he stick long term? Sure but at best he's a role player who needs his minutes low to prevent injury.
    That's true and I wasn't thinking of him in terms of playing big minutes. I like him as a good locker room guy and a spot up shooting wing off the bench in limited minutes. I don't see him as a core piece going forward but I like what he brings in terms of his attitude and his experience and I think he's a good guy to have around during this rebuild if he'll sign for the vets min and meshes well with our developing players. I could be wrong about him, Hedo Turkalu was very similar sort of player and he is someone I would absolutely not want around players I'm trying to develop, but I always got the impression that Peja is a class act and will teach our guys good habits.

    @ Nine New Faces

    Yah, it might be to early to start thinking in terms of making this team into a winner and maybe Peja would serve us better by being traded for another pick. I guess I dislike giving up a guy of his experience and talent if there is a chance he might sign long term with us for small money. Former All-NBA second team guys on expiring deals don't fall into your lap everyday and if he can't be turned into a good first rounder or something along those lines I'd just as soon keep him.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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