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Thread: Young Gunz Shoot Raptors in the Claw...Again..

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    Default Young Gunz Shoot Raptors in the Claw...Again..

    Sonny and Demar have all star potential...in the D League

    Their combined play in the Boston and Atlanta matchups reveal a lack of basketball accumen that has cost us dearly on both occasions. Many are dismissing Sonny's poor play as just a 'slump', but Demar's issues as perhaps far more dire.

    Regardless, I have never felt so angry at a young player who continuously leaves his mark wide open over and over again as Demar does. Ray Allen smoked us, and so did the various 2 guards that ATL threw at Demar mercilessly. He was exposed and obliterated.

    Sonny continued his poor play, chucking bricks but at least seeming to give a sh** on defence.

    Amir has flashes of potency, and perhaps is the highest calibre "gun" in the youngones arsenal.

    With Demar as the starting 2 , we are basically offering teams a free window to the basket.

    Something needs to be done, via trade, or starting lineup shuffle. These guns are shooting nothing but blanks, and put us with 1 ft in the hole before the 1st quarter finishes.

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    Raptors Republic Starter TheR3dMenace's Avatar
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    The biggest skill a successful NBA player has to learn: how to give a shit night in and night out. The season is a grind and these guys live in such a bubble that their paychecks cease to be a motivating factor. We've heard it hundreds of times before - Hustle is a skill.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Default hmm

    How would you feel if both these guys develop into versatile complete players. You'd prolly feel like shit. Im pretty sure they can't get worse, only can improve. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I'd wait and see what the situation looks like in a few years. Patience is a virtue.

    Hey Multipaul, since your so good at "analyzing" answer me this. Why is it so hard for Andrea Bargnani to grab 10 rebounds in a game? Since Reggie isn't playing anytime soon. He better get his ass on it.

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    9 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds per game, playing over 25 minutes per game and shooting a lousy 39% from the floor. Man, Demar has sucked..... Oh wait, my bad, that's Joe Johnson's stats on the 02-03 Suns (his 2nd year BTW).

    Can we at least agree that maybe we're expecting a little too much from a 2nd year player and an throw in from the Amir Johnson/Carlos Delfino trade? One thing about the NBA now is that is LOADED with good wing players. Every team has guys at the 2/3 that can bring something to the table. Yes, those 2 have played bad lately and they need a more consistent effort, but I'm not going throw them away because Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Joe Johnson burned them. And it's not like Linas Klieza or Leandro Barbosa would do THAT much better.

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    I believe that you need to have at least three capable 3-point shooters on the floor at all times to be successful. Right now it's Bargnani, Calderon, ???. Until either DeMar or Sonny finds some range on their jumpers, I don't think they can play together...

    If Triano really wanted to win right now, he would stick Peja in there over Sonny, but that's just not gonna happen. I'd like to see it though.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    How would you feel if both these guys develop into versatile complete players. You'd prolly feel like shit. Im pretty sure they can't get worse, only can improve. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I'd wait and see what the situation looks like in a few years. Patience is a virtue.
    LOL, Is this your logic ? Lets try it the other way, How would you feel if these guys turn up to be a bust and nothing more than a reserve rotational player in a good NBA team ??!!

    How would you feel if BC decides to give another two 35-45 million dollar and 5 year contract to these guys and they end up now becoming the star that some of us hope so !!!

    What does not kill you , does not neccesrly make u strong. It does not matter how much you spend on a Pontiac 89 model and ... at the end, it will not become a Lambo It is still a Pontiac.

    You can wait and see but he league does NOT.
    Investing in young talent is a good thing when there is actually some talent there. Right now, the real young talents in NBA are guys like:

    Wall, Griffen, Mayo, Lopez, Curry, ... These are the guys that you invest and wait for.

    You remid me of a friend who invested in Nortel and stick with it ( He thought he can wait) till all his 50k became a penny stock
    In the mean time, some of accepted our loss and moved on earlier and invested what was left and actually made it back investing on other stocks.

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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Can we at least agree that maybe we're expecting a little too much from a 2nd year player and an throw in from the Amir Johnson/Carlos Delfino trade?
    This I agree with but the problem comes when we want to reward these kids on the possible potential. we have invested 35 mill on Amir and for the sake of argument ,lets say we do the same amount for Money Weems and DD

    At some point of time, we have to sit back and see how much risk are these guys based on how they performed so far. It is called risk analysis and Raptors need to do it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    That was certainly a demoralizing game. Wow, what a stinker. Triano rightfully was pissed.

    But regardless of this game, bad as it was, this season is all about Demar and Sonny and Amir getting some experience. They will improve as the season goes. This is a slump and the only way around it is hard work and working through it. The D-League would be demoralizing and anti-productive. It is where you would send them to wilt and die.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    I believe that you need to have at least three capable 3-point shooters on the floor at all times to be successful. Right now it's Bargnani, Calderon, ???. Until either DeMar or Sonny finds some range on their jumpers, I don't think they can play together...

    If Triano really wanted to win right now, he would stick Peja in there over Sonny, but that's just not gonna happen. I'd like to see it though.
    + 1. It's funny how people decry the coach after the loss. Yes, he's still learning to coach at this level and his substitution / timeout pattern is iffy at best. The real problems on offense lie on lack of three point shooters and inside scoring. I know that Peja's body ain't what it used to be but they need to stretch the floor with him. Triano should shake-up the line up to Calderon, Weems, Peja, Amir and Bargs moving forward. If he sticks to the same lineup as Sunday, the team is toast.
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Mon Nov 29th, 2010 at 07:17 AM.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Starter raptorsking's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Sonny and Demar have all star potential...in the D League

    Their combined play in the Boston and Atlanta matchups reveal a lack of basketball accumen that has cost us dearly on both occasions. Many are dismissing Sonny's poor play as just a 'slump', but Demar's issues as perhaps far more dire.

    Regardless, I have never felt so angry at a young player who continuously leaves his mark wide open over and over again as Demar does. Ray Allen smoked us, and so did the various 2 guards that ATL threw at Demar mercilessly. He was exposed and obliterated.

    Sonny continued his poor play, chucking bricks but at least seeming to give a sh** on defence.

    Amir has flashes of potency, and perhaps is the highest calibre "gun" in the youngones arsenal.

    With Demar as the starting 2 , we are basically offering teams a free window to the basket.

    Something needs to be done, via trade, or starting lineup shuffle. These guns are shooting nothing but blanks, and put us with 1 ft in the hole before the 1st quarter finishes.
    dude please stfu. what the fuck do you expect are you gonna bitch after every loss ? we lost to a way better team, our offensive execution sucks, no play are being run for demar,

    we are a lottery team, theres no trade out there that can change that.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    hahaha common guys lets not torture ourselves anymore.
    ive surrender to the fact that this is team is going to struggle.
    that 4 game win streak was a fluke.
    celtics - no rondo
    philly - no iguodala
    houston - no brooks, no yao
    philly - no brand

    it still seems to be the same old story. last year, when bosh gets shut down, nobody steps up. same now, when bargs gets in a funk, nobody can step up.

    i heard on fan590 that demar maybe dealing with injury issues (hamstring, ankle)
    i got a feeling that their play maybe be affected as well when Jack left
    but seriously, this is a man's game, its good to have a big brother on the team but when he gets traded, man up and deal with it

    bargs needs to do a lot more too. he is rebounding, but it aint enough.

    the celts game i dont mind them losing, but the hawks, they can go toe to toe with these guys. they have similar gameplays and core. atlanta just had more desire to win.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote jrdyck wrote: View Post
    I believe that you need to have at least three capable 3-point shooters on the floor at all times to be successful.
    "Capable"? Depends what you mean by that. Three 3pt. shooters at all times?...if it's a jump shooting team you want. Most good teams rely on 1 good one and 2 if they are lucky. 1 is good enough to spread the floor and provide another look for your offense. You do know what happens with 3pt. shooters....they live on the arc (like Bargs used to)...which means very little midrange/short game, offensive rebounding and going to the rim for FTs. Such players in abundance on the floor at the same time also makes for a very soft team on defense and more importantly will NEVER win in the playoffs. Opposing defenses will see to it.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote raptorsking wrote: View Post
    dude please stfu. what the fuck do you expect are you gonna bitch after every loss ? we lost to a way better team, our offensive execution sucks, no play are being run for demar,

    we are a lottery team, theres no trade out there that can change that.
    i agree and disagree. i dont agree with the bitching during every loss. we should just open our minds and let it sink in, this team is going to suck big time this year.

    lost to a better team? yes. but the effort should be there. i think they just dont push enough. the talent is there, but the effort, not so much. sometimes these guys take things for granted, i thought the trade was really going to shake things up and make them realize that hey, not everybody is safe around here. it worked for 4 games, and then that was it.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Mon Nov 29th, 2010 at 09:39 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    nobody thought the raps would compete with the elite teams in the east..

    they've notched wins against two of the best teams in the conference already..

    they've already overachieved in my book.

    the young kids kinda sucked.. true enough..

    but then, my 21 yr old cousin cant get motivated enough to eat anything more than hot pockets for every meal

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "Capable"? Depends what you mean by that. Three 3pt. shooters at all times?...if it's a jump shooting team you want. Most good teams rely on 1 good one and 2 if they are lucky. 1 is good enough to spread the floor and provide another look for your offense. You do know what happens with 3pt. shooters....they live on the arc (like Bargs used to)...which means very little midrange/short game, offensive rebounding and going to the rim for FTs. Such players in abundance on the floor at the same time also makes for a very soft team on defense and more importantly will NEVER win in the playoffs. Opposing defenses will see to it.
    not all 3pt shooters are soft & not all 3pt shooters just camp on the 3pt line... ray allen for example... this guy is the best & hes always moving, running players off screens, plays decent D, is lights out from pretty much anywere on the floor....every team needs guys like ray..... 3pt shooters who arnt versitile enough to do other things is never good. also have u seen teams like miami play with almost no outside shooters! its working really well for those guys isnt it....
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Mon Nov 29th, 2010 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    How would you feel if both these guys develop into versatile complete players. You'd prolly feel like shit. Im pretty sure they can't get worse, only can improve. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I'd wait and see what the situation looks like in a few years. Patience is a virtue.
    Bullshit - wait for a few years - are you kidding me. Why wait - there are tons of other players who play like they give a damn and get put up the same numbers these two jokers are.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Something needs to be done, via trade, or starting lineup shuffle. These guns are shooting nothing but blanks, and put us with 1 ft in the hole before the 1st quarter finishes.
    What if the coaches didn't throw Bargnani out there in all those games he got exposed when he was a sophomore? The Raptors invested a high choice in DeRozan and now they need to stay committed to the plan. To have so much patience with Bargnani and yet pull the plug on DeRozan would make no sense what so ever. I think DeRozan looks just as good/bad as Bargnani did in his second year.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What if the coaches didn't throw Bargnani out there in all those games he got exposed when he was a sophomore? The Raptors invested a high choice in DeRozan and now they need to stay committed to the plan. To have so much patience with Bargnani and yet pull the plug on DeRozan would make no sense what so ever. I think DeRozan looks just as good/bad as Bargnani did in his second year.
    I hope they dont develop these youngs guys the way they did Bargnani, because Bargs development took way too long. its not because of him tho, but probably because Bosh was always the focal point on offense. the thing is, they shouldnt leave it to the coach/staff to make plays for them, they should be aggressive and create their own shots. demar and sonny are very capable of doing this. just look at the lakers, kobe gets up an average of 20 shots per game, gasol, around 15. but youll still see fisher, odom scoring in double figures, and barnes, brown, artest getting at least 5-6 shots per night. its because these guys find their own shots.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What if the coaches didn't throw Bargnani out there in all those games he got exposed when he was a sophomore? The Raptors invested a high choice in DeRozan and now they need to stay committed to the plan. To have so much patience with Bargnani and yet pull the plug on DeRozan would make no sense what so ever. I think DeRozan looks just as good/bad as Bargnani did in his second year.
    the only diff. is that bargs had a better front court partner than DD has on his wing.. id rather weems be taken out the starting 5 & choose the 3 based on performance.. or matchup... if kleiza plays better & starts hitting his shots more then hed be the best option but if not then start Peja when healthy...

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Sometimes I get very impatient with the Raptors. The saving grace this year has been signs of improvement and effort. Neither were witnessed yesterday. That is very frustrating. Now, let us put that in perspective.

    The OKC Thunder are widely regarded to have one of the best front offices in the NBA - most notably Sam Presti.

    They also have some of the best young talent in Durant and Westbrook plus great players in Green, Ibaka, Maynor, and potentially Harden.

    They had the #2 and received #5 in 2007 draft, #4 in 2008, #3 in 2009.

    They FINALLY made the playoffs in 2010 after a 5 year absence - despite having all that talent.

    In fact the year AFTER they drafted Durant they went from 31 wins (missed playoffs, drafted #10, Petro - who?) to 20 wins. The next season with Durant in his second year and Westbrook a rookie, they won 23 games. Durant's 3rd year and Westbrook's 2nd they won 50 and made the playoffs in the 8th seed in the west.

    What is my point? Time to put things in perspective with regards to expectations.

    Hustle, grit, effort, signs of improvement - yes, everynight, they are not good enough to not.

    Wins? unforunately not as frequent as losses.

    The media in the US have the Raptors as the worst team in the league. Many posters on this forum have us in the 6-8 seed. The reality most likely falls somewhere in the middle.

    Am I saying the Raptors should tank? Absolutely not.

    Am I saying expectations should be lowered? Yes - in terms of wins and losses.

    Am I saying hustle, effort, and improvement should be ignored? Absolutely not. It is this last one that has me so upset about yesterday.

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