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Thread: Hating on the home team

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Default Hating on the home team

    I think it is important to be critical of our team because we pay to see them. They make million so of dollars off of games, jersey sales, etc. and we want to see wins.

    However, there's a fine line between being critical and hating. All these "trade DeMar" posts and "fire the coach" posts and whatever else is out there like it are getting ridiculous. Who out there believed we were going to make it to the playoffs this year? Who actually thought Bosh would stay or that we would actually get something for him? The fact is we are in a building (rebuilding, retooling, who cares what they call it) and if we are actually fans, then maybe we should be a little more patient. What good will it do to rip the team apart right now for more unknown?

    I made this next comment on a post I put up yesterday but I feel it's important for people to look at it from another direction. OKC has not been up and coming for a long time. Last year they had their coming out season where they took the league by surprise. Everyone attributes it to good drafting and the correct building process. The fans had to be supportive and i'll be they were. They recently moved from Seattle and the fans were ecstatic to just have a team. The GM was able to build with his vision of where they could get to and voila, they've become a playoff calibre taem with some very very good talent.

    What does that mean for a raps fan? That we should be patient and let BC (who just recently had the chains of CB4 removed) to move forward with his vision. Some might argue that he has no vision and we are worse off than we were before blah blah blah. Should we put Babcock back in? Please, lets not be so short sighted. BC wants to win. Let him build this team the right way. Consistency is a necessity at this time and the more of it we have the better off we will be.

    If you want to be mad about the team's energy, then do it. There's absolutely no excuse for a lack of effort. Everyone is learning process this year. It will benefit us in the long run. Evaluate players at the end of the year and not on a game to game basis. Don't be bipolar in your judgement. There are too many posts about how bad bargnani is and then he goes off for 4 games averaging 28 points (we loved him those 4 games) which was followed by 2 bad games and now he should be traded again.

    Keep the long-term in mind. Call me on it if in 3-4 years we still suck (and they tried to build a team in the right way). This is the only way things will work out and keep fans really happy.

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    I can see your point. Funny though, I never heard a peep out of you in the last 2 years when all the haters were saying "trade Andrea", "Andrea sucks".

    I think if a single player is playing very poorly over a long stretch of games there is nothing wrong with analyzing their poor play and considering what options there are that could BENEFIT THE TEAM.

    I understand people like you who swallow all this Young Onez crap and think "oh these kids are gonna develop into stars", i get it, that's fine. One thing you should know is that Sonny, Demar, and Amir, are NOTHING like Durant, Green, and Westrbrook. The sooner you figure that out the sooner you will realize trading for better players benefits everyone.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I can see your point. Funny though, I never heard a peep out of you in the last 2 years when all the haters were saying "trade Andrea", "Andrea sucks".

    I think if a single player is playing very poorly over a long stretch of games there is nothing wrong with analyzing their poor play and considering what options there are that could BENEFIT THE TEAM.

    I understand people like you who swallow all this Young Onez crap and think "oh these kids are gonna develop into stars", i get it, that's fine. One thing you should know is that Sonny, Demar, and Amir, are NOTHING like Durant, Green, and Westrbrook. The sooner you figure that out the sooner you will realize trading for better players benefits everyone.

    i think past NBA history should teach us 1 thing if anything....players dont show the same loyalty to the Raps as we show them... i say anytime u can make your team better that anyone should be availible to trade.. ANYONE

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I can see your point. Funny though, I never heard a peep out of you in the last 2 years when all the haters were saying "trade Andrea", "Andrea sucks".

    I think if a single player is playing very poorly over a long stretch of games there is nothing wrong with analyzing their poor play and considering what options there are that could BENEFIT THE TEAM.

    I understand people like you who swallow all this Young Onez crap and think "oh these kids are gonna develop into stars", i get it, that's fine. One thing you should know is that Sonny, Demar, and Amir, are NOTHING like Durant, Green, and Westrbrook. The sooner you figure that out the sooner you will realize trading for better players benefits everyone.
    In theory your point makes sense, but it's completey unrealistic. I think every person on this site would agree with any move that overwhelmingly improves the team. However, there are two points I get stuck on when reading replies like yours:

    1) if our players are as horrible as you seem to think they are, why would any other team give us better players in return for our crap?

    2) it's one thing to talk about rumored deals, but all the threads simply calling for a particular player(s) to be traded or discussing trades that posters would like to see happen, are completely useless. We fans have no idea what offers BC gets and/or what proposals he makes, so how can we evaluate "ideas" that we know absolutely nothing about? I think what the original message on this thread was referring to was other threads just calling for Bargnani to be traded, for example, where no legitimate rumour currently exists to discuss. How can we readers debate a thread like that? Sure, I'd trade Bargnani for Kobe & Pau, but I wouldn't trade him to get Banks & Anderson back. Without having a specific rumour to base a trade thread on, it's inevitable that the thread will become a hate session and result in mud-slinging and personal insults between posters.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Dec 1st, 2010 at 01:12 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I can see your point. Funny though, I never heard a peep out of you in the last 2 years when all the haters were saying "trade Andrea", "Andrea sucks".
    I didn't find the forum until October, that's where I've been.

    If our guys aren't stars (as you claim) and won't deveop into anything (as you also claim), then who would want to trade us better players for our nobodys?

    These guys like Toronto. Even if they are only ever role players, then so be it. They (with maybe the exception of Amir) haven't had enough experience to beocme anything. I can already see the arguement that they've had XX number of games and they should be on board by now. Sure they've got some time under their belts now. However it takes other professionals 4-8 years to actually be given the reins to practice on their own. Why should we expect these guys to be so extraordinary after 1 or 2 years to be able to carry our franchise. If a doctor doesn't know everything over after 2 years of school they don't kick him out. He shouldn't have to pass 4th year tests after 2 years. I believe that most fans do that to tehse guys. They're testing them as fourth years rather than 1 or 2.

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    Who actually thought Bosh would stay or that we would actually get something for him?
    I hear and understand what you are trying to say however BC must have know deep down inside as a lot of us loyal fans knew that Bosh was not going to stay. That being said, I believe that if we had made a move like a lot of fans were crying for, things would have been better off for us and for the future of the franchise. We could have actually got someone or some good picks in return.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    gotta agree with albertan... too much whining

    its like people expect the team to meet their constantly revised expectations all the time.. one second its "this team won't win 20 games".. the next its "oh my god, we lost to the 3rd best team in the east! FIRE EVERYONE!!"

    take it for what it is.. we all knew the team wasnt the best. we all knew they'd lose. hell, we all predicted it'd be MUCH worse than it is right now. i know i did.

    they've proved me wrong a few times already.. and it was awesome.

    on some nights they play like the team we thought they were.... on others, they beat the celtics.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    In theory your point makes sense, but it's completey unrealistic. I think every person on this site would agree with any move that overwhelmingly improves the team. However, there are two points I get stuck on when reading replies like yours:

    1) if our players are as horrible as you seem to think they are, why would any other team give us better players in return for our crap?

    2) it's one thing to talk about rumored deals, but all the threads simply calling for a particular player(s) to be traded or discussing trades that posters would like to see happen, are completely useless. We fans have no idea what offers BC gets and/or what proposals he makes, so how can we evaluate "ideas" that we know absolutely nothing about? I think what the original message on this thread was referring to was other threads just calling for Bargnani to be traded, for example, where no legitimate rumour currently exists to discuss. How can we readers debate a thread like that? Sure, I'd trade Bargnani for Kobe & Pau, but I wouldn't trade him to get Banks & Anderson back. Without having a specific rumour to base a trade thread on, it's inevitable that the thread will become a hate session and result in mud-slinging and personal insults between posters.
    ok ok ok

    #1- i don't think are player(S) are terrible. I think we have bench guys playing starting roles, while we have starters coming off the bench. Namely, Demar and Weems.

    #2- I can see your point here for sure.

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    I didn't find the forum until October, that's where I've been.

    If our guys aren't stars (as you claim) and won't deveop into anything (as you also claim), then who would want to trade us better players for our nobodys?

    These guys like Toronto. Even if they are only ever role players, then so be it. They (with maybe the exception of Amir) haven't had enough experience to beocme anything. I can already see the arguement that they've had XX number of games and they should be on board by now. Sure they've got some time under their belts now. However it takes other professionals 4-8 years to actually be given the reins to practice on their own. Why should we expect these guys to be so extraordinary after 1 or 2 years to be able to carry our franchise. If a doctor doesn't know everything over after 2 years of school they don't kick him out. He shouldn't have to pass 4th year tests after 2 years. I believe that most fans do that to tehse guys. They're testing them as fourth years rather than 1 or 2.
    Are you insane? There are plenty of top 10 rookies who slid into starting roles and outperform Demar and Weems day in and day out. Do you think these guys are going to become all stars?

    I am an Amir fan. But, are you aware of how long he has been in the league already? Do your homework son.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    gotta agree with albertan... too much whining

    its like people expect the team to meet their constantly revised expectations all the time.. one second its "this team won't win 20 games".. the next its "oh my god, we lost to the 3rd best team in the east! FIRE EVERYONE!!"

    take it for what it is.. we all knew the team wasnt the best. we all knew they'd lose. hell, we all predicted it'd be MUCH worse than it is right now. i know i did.

    they've proved me wrong a few times already.. and it was awesome.

    on some nights they play like the team we thought they were.... on others, they beat the celtics.
    I totally agree with you on supporting the team.

    I disagree with you if you think that fans are not allowed to suggest trade scenarios when a player is not working out or living up to their potential and there is something of value we can get back.

    I didn't here anyone whining when JO got traded, and his #'s were better than Demar's.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    there's a trade proposal forum. which i stay out of. i hate debating hypotheticals.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    there's a trade proposal forum. which i stay out of. i hate debating hypotheticals.
    I think we can all agree that we want this team to:
    1.Win
    2.Win
    3.Win
    4. Get better
    5. Nurture young talent
    6. Get rid of players that don't bring effort, passion, or a desire to win.
    7. Win
    8. See a playboy pictorial with the Raptors Dance Pak in it (or hustler...or swank....gent?)

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    9. bone the mop girls at the acc

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    9. bone the mop girls at the acc
    Now its some dude.

    That blonde works at bmo field now, comes out on the pitch to spread her "fertilizer" at half time. spawning.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    mopping.. fertilizing.. i dont care what domestic duty they do, as long as they dont forget to do the dishes too

    just kidding ladies!!!

    unless you actually will do my dishes... then, hey.. watcha up to?

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Are you insane? There are plenty of top 10 rookies who slid into starting roles and outperform Demar and Weems day in and day out. Do you think these guys are going to become all stars?

    I am an Amir fan. But, are you aware of how long he has been in the league already? Do your homework son.
    Insane that thinking that kids who were drafted because of potential have not outperformed John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Rose? you can't even put those guys in the same category. None of them were drafted because of potential, they drafted them because of what they already had. pff, insane, hahaha. If you missed it I put in a comment about Amir being in the league longer. Did my homework now please do the reading.

    I agree with your other post. Winning and nurturing good talent is most important.

    Just out of curiousity, who is the starter that we have coming off the bench?

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    heinz
    aka
    ol dirty egg duster

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    Insane that thinking that kids who were drafted because of potential have not outperformed John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Rose? you can't even put those guys in the same category. None of them were drafted because of potential, they drafted them because of what they already had. pff, insane, hahaha. If you missed it I put in a comment about Amir being in the league longer. Did my homework now please do the reading.

    I agree with your other post. Winning and nurturing good talent is most important.

    Just out of curiousity, who is the starter that we have coming off the bench?
    On this team we should be starting Kleiza for Weems and Barbo for Demar
    Or
    Weems in Demars spot and start Kleiza

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    Super Moderator .40 Cal Flakes's Avatar
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    I think it is important to be critical of our team because we pay to see them. They make million so of dollars off of games, jersey sales, etc. and we want to see wins.

    However, there's a fine line between being critical and hating. All these "trade DeMar" posts and "fire the coach" posts and whatever else is out there like it are getting ridiculous. Who out there believed we were going to make it to the playoffs this year? Who actually thought Bosh would stay or that we would actually get something for him? The fact is we are in a building (rebuilding, retooling, who cares what they call it) and if we are actually fans, then maybe we should be a little more patient. What good will it do to rip the team apart right now for more unknown?

    I made this next comment on a post I put up yesterday but I feel it's important for people to look at it from another direction. OKC has not been up and coming for a long time. Last year they had their coming out season where they took the league by surprise. Everyone attributes it to good drafting and the correct building process. The fans had to be supportive and i'll be they were. They recently moved from Seattle and the fans were ecstatic to just have a team. The GM was able to build with his vision of where they could get to and voila, they've become a playoff calibre taem with some very very good talent.

    What does that mean for a raps fan? That we should be patient and let BC (who just recently had the chains of CB4 removed) to move forward with his vision. Some might argue that he has no vision and we are worse off than we were before blah blah blah. Should we put Babcock back in? Please, lets not be so short sighted. BC wants to win. Let him build this team the right way. Consistency is a necessity at this time and the more of it we have the better off we will be.

    If you want to be mad about the team's energy, then do it. There's absolutely no excuse for a lack of effort. Everyone is learning process this year. It will benefit us in the long run. Evaluate players at the end of the year and not on a game to game basis. Don't be bipolar in your judgement. There are too many posts about how bad bargnani is and then he goes off for 4 games averaging 28 points (we loved him those 4 games) which was followed by 2 bad games and now he should be traded again.

    Keep the long-term in mind. Call me on it if in 3-4 years we still suck (and they tried to build a team in the right way). This is the only way things will work out and keep fans really happy.

    Thank you for writing what I'm sure many others have thought (myself included), but just don't have the time to write down. Excellent post.

    The big thing with me is that the effort is there every night. As a fan I can handle going through a rebuilding phase and losing a bunch of games, as long as hustle and effort is shown by the players and coaches/GM (a la OKC).
    Last edited by .40 Cal Flakes; Wed Dec 1st, 2010 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    I think it is important to be critical of our team because we pay to see them. They make million so of dollars off of games, jersey sales, etc. and we want to see wins.

    However, there's a fine line between being critical and hating. All these "trade DeMar" posts and "fire the coach" posts and whatever else is out there like it are getting ridiculous. Who out there believed we were going to make it to the playoffs this year? Who actually thought Bosh would stay or that we would actually get something for him? The fact is we are in a building (rebuilding, retooling, who cares what they call it) and if we are actually fans, then maybe we should be a little more patient. What good will it do to rip the team apart right now for more unknown?

    I made this next comment on a post I put up yesterday but I feel it's important for people to look at it from another direction. OKC has not been up and coming for a long time. Last year they had their coming out season where they took the league by surprise. Everyone attributes it to good drafting and the correct building process. The fans had to be supportive and i'll be they were. They recently moved from Seattle and the fans were ecstatic to just have a team. The GM was able to build with his vision of where they could get to and voila, they've become a playoff calibre taem with some very very good talent.

    What does that mean for a raps fan? That we should be patient and let BC (who just recently had the chains of CB4 removed) to move forward with his vision. Some might argue that he has no vision and we are worse off than we were before blah blah blah. Should we put Babcock back in? Please, lets not be so short sighted. BC wants to win. Let him build this team the right way. Consistency is a necessity at this time and the more of it we have the better off we will be.

    If you want to be mad about the team's energy, then do it. There's absolutely no excuse for a lack of effort. Everyone is learning process this year. It will benefit us in the long run. Evaluate players at the end of the year and not on a game to game basis. Don't be bipolar in your judgement. There are too many posts about how bad bargnani is and then he goes off for 4 games averaging 28 points (we loved him those 4 games) which was followed by 2 bad games and now he should be traded again.

    Keep the long-term in mind. Call me on it if in 3-4 years we still suck (and they tried to build a team in the right way). This is the only way things will work out and keep fans really happy.
    Sorry guy, BC and Burke are more of thesame - swinging for the fences by trading draft picks for a mediocre team(the 2nd pick for a Phil Kessel that is hardly playing or scoring for the Leafs sucks) when they could build a tream the right way. Both of them are not solutions rather the problem(they are both used car salesmen, all talk no substance) and both should be fired if these teams want to be rebuilt properly. How much will it take to get Jerry West out of retirement? $12 million a year? MLSE(and the new terrible prospective owners - Rogers) is too cheap to pay such premium. Evidence - no Stanley Cup since 1967 for the Maple Leafs.

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