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How Good Can Bayless Become?

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  • #31
    jlongs wrote: View Post
    I see him as a guy who will always be a better scorer than facilitator. He could be a starter on offensively-challenged teams, but otherwise would be a great 2nd PG off the bench who can provide more offense. But he's young and can still develop his game enough to get him an all-star nod. But imo, a solid starter is more likely. I'd say a la Jameer Nelson.
    Bayless is not a #2 any more than Bargnani, despite what he says is a PF. Yes they can both play those positions but not very well.

    Bayless is a PG with a high TOV% who will learn to make better PG decisions as he gets more experience. I have already posted elsewhere that Bayless is averaging more Assists per 36 minutes than Billups did at a comparable age and about the same as Calderon did when he first joined the Raptors.

    I don't see Bayless as a 10+ APG guy. However I think that he can put up within a couple of seasons Billups like numbers when Billups was in his prime of about 18 - 20 PPG and 8 - 10 APG.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Thu Dec 2, 2010, 07:05 PM.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

    Memories some so sweet, indeed

    Larger Photo of the avatar



    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    • #32
      Buddahfan wrote: View Post
      I have already posted elsewhere that Bayless is averaging more Assists per 36 minutes than Billups did at a comparable age and about the same as Calderon did when he first joined the Raptors.

      .
      LOOOLLL, Buddah Did you find another man crush for this season ?? Based on your PER 36, Raptors are better than Lakers and we have few MVP in this team. I know this is just the start of your BS threads about this new crush of you and you will not rest and feed us all this non-sense till BC award him a long term huge contract !!!

      Buddahfan wrote: View Post

      Evans sucks period

      .
      Really !! The guy put up numbers in his rookie season that only MJ and few others put up and you can dismiss him like this an praise Bayless who have been nothing BUT a bench warmer in the last 2 season a a best thing since sliced bread !!!

      Come on man, Are you getiing paied for these threads ?

      Comment


      • #33
        Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
        This is something that I can agree with. All these comparisons:

        DD = Kobe.
        Amir= Lamar
        AB = Pau
        Bayless to an ALL-STAR

        Davis to !!!

        At this point of time plain stupid. Lets not get too excited and Offer another contract that makes us look back in a year or two and be like: WTF !!! How can we trade this guys NOW !!! We already have 2 of them in this team and we know BC loves to give this sort of contracts out !!


        This year, all these guys will have plenty of time on the court. They can show what type of PLAYER they are on BOTH side of the court and ... Then we can see who we want to KEEP.
        If you watch enough basketball or even too much you can eventually learn to spot what characteristics and ability a player has both on the court and off the court. From this, assuming no significant career injury it is not too difficult to project a player and how good they are going to be within reason.

        For example it was obvious to the knowledgeable basketball fan when watching both Collison and Westbrook on the court together at UCLA that Westbrook was going to a lot better despite the hype that Collison got.

        It was also pretty obvious that K. Love was going to be a big time NBA player watching him play at UCLA and knowing what type of dedicated athlete he is to realize that despite being undersized he was going to become a top notch NBA player.

        You have to forget the scouting reports and ESPN BS and watch him/her play and learn about the player's personality then judge for yourself.

        Watch the impact that they have on games and not just the points, rebounds and assists that they may accumulate. Any decent player can score if their USG% is off the chart. Even a player's rebounding rate can be distorted if that is all they are asked to do and that is all they do. Especially if their teammates defer to them on rebounds.
        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

        Memories some so sweet, indeed

        Larger Photo of the avatar



        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

        Comment


        • #34
          I love Bayless! The move he pulled on John Wall that left him dazed and almost rolled his ankle! Amazing! Once he gets more playing time, which he will because Calderon is useless on defense, he will turn out to be one of the best point guards in the league in my opinion.

          I love our new Raptors team now! I take back everything bad I said about Colangelo! This Raptors team is gonna be incredible in the next few years!

          Bayless
          DeRozan
          Weems
          Davis
          Bargnani


          It doesn't get any sicker!

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          • #35
            JalenRose5 wrote: View Post
            I love Bayless! The move he pulled on John Wall that left him dazed and almost rolled his ankle! Amazing! Once he gets more playing time, which he will because Calderon is useless on defense, he will turn out to be one of the best point guards in the league in my opinion.

            I love our new Raptors team now! I take back everything bad I said about Colangelo! This Raptors team is gonna be incredible in the next few years!

            Bayless
            DeRozan
            Weems
            Davis
            Bargnani


            It doesn't get any sicker!
            While still not a great defender, Calderon has played much better this year on the other side of the ball. The constant 'he is finally healthy' in the media might actually be true. He seems to be a great guy/teammate however from a bball perspective, an injury history perspective, and a financial perspective I hope Colangelo is able to unload him while there may be value for him. With the exception of the ATL game where every Raptor must have been hungover, he has played very well in the last 5 games.

            I can't wait for the next 5 game losing skid to see if people still feel the same about BC. Here is a thread from a few weeks ago.

            http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...egit-architect

            3 weeks ago there were more haters than appreciators of BC.

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            • #36
              I love the optimism but.... unfortunatly i dont like to judge players by collage or summer league or D- league games.... NBA is a totaly different beast to overcome... most players will show glimses of stardom on givin nights.. very few sustain it long term...id rather give them credit when theve earned it & $ when theve proved they can sustain it.... nuff of all these pay for potential deals too!...

              as a fan id be much happier aswell if these guys got paid at the end of every season based on performace...but i know the NBAPA would never agree to that...(Too many cash in & check out types out there these days)
              Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Thu Dec 2, 2010, 09:10 PM.

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              • #37
                Bendit wrote: View Post
                For what it's worth, Bayless, to me, is a younger Jameer Nelson. There are the obvious physical differences but B's playing style looks similar as well as the tenacity. We must remember we haven't seen him play all that much yet and that for his two years in the league he hasn't played a large or definitive role yet. The jury is still out on his potential/ceiling for the league. Give him this year....as a matter of fact many on the Raps need this year for a good evaluation.
                Except Jameer can shoot and Bayless can't.

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                • #38
                  Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                  Based on what? The 4 games that you saw him play !! Can you really see him become as good as WestBrook, Rondo, Rose and Wall? If yes, based on what? Remeber he is not a Rookie and has been in this league for few years now.
                  I don't know about you, but I watched the guy when he was at Arizona. You could tell that he was a talent back then. Even in garbage time in Portland, you could see the talent. Perhaps you didn't catch his performance in the playoffs last season when he got a chance to shine. He played quite well. Maybe you missed that. That's what I base it on. It's not like the guy was getting major minutes in Portland. I don't think he even averaged more than 16-17 mpg in a season. If given the oppourtunity to shine, I believe he could become a very special player.



                  Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                  Not relevent. The point is to see what is the level of an ALL-STAR PG is this league or how good a player can be to be considered a Solid starting PG in NBA.
                  How is it not relevant? Billups is an all-star guard. He's been an all-star 5 times. Could Bayless be an all-star? Perhaps. But he can't do that playing 20 minutes or less a night. The kid needs a chance to play major minutes before we find out.


                  Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                  Again, not relevent !!! Who cares who is in West and who is on East !! The point of the poll is evaluating Bayless talent and see where he can go.
                  How is it not relevant? Well, unless the NBA adopted the NHL all-star philosophy and is not going with eastern and western conferences and instead a pool of players, then it should matter. Given the right circumstances and if Bayless gets playing time and works really hard, then he could very well become an all star and it would be easier to make it as an east representative as opposed to the west.

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                  • #39
                    Prime wrote: View Post
                    Except Jameer can shoot and Bayless can't.
                    bayless can shoot he just hasn't been very good at it in his limited NBA opportunities. he shot very well with the widcats though.

                    i think whoever said his ceiling is devin harris is bang on... both limited in playmaking ability but can get into the lane (and to the line) at will. a level below all-star, but still pretty good.

                    also following that reasoning i don't think tony parker is that much of a stretch, since if you stick tp on the nyets i don't think you're dramatically improving that team. conversely, harris on the spurs would not make them significantly worse.

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                    • #40
                      Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                      Bayless is not a #2 any more than Bargnani, despite what he says is a PF. Yes they can both play those positions but not very well.

                      Bayless is a PG with a high TOV% who will learn to make better PG decisions as he gets more experience. I have already posted elsewhere that Bayless is averaging more Assists per 36 minutes than Billups did at a comparable age and about the same as Calderon did when he first joined the Raptors.

                      I don't see Bayless as a 10+ APG guy. However I think that he can put up within a couple of seasons Billups like numbers when Billups was in his prime of about 18 - 20 PPG and 8 - 10 APG.
                      I'm not sure if you're agreeing or not, but yes I don't see him as a 10+ assist guy either. Even 8-10 is a stretch for me, but it certainly is possible should he develop his PG vision more, as well as a consistent outside shot.

                      What I've seen from him so far (even from Portland) is that he has the potential to be a really good scoring PG. Not afraid to take it to the hole, and can take the contact (and make the and 1). If he manages to better his jump shot he won't be that much different from Nelson, maybe even Billups like you said. I just haven't seen that much potential from him in the playmaking/facilitating dept. It's possible, but I don't see it. So far.

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                      • #41
                        heinz57 wrote: View Post
                        i'm not ready to make any bold predictions for his career... but from what i've seen, at worst, he'll be a GREAT backup guard
                        I agree heinz. Its only been a few games. He's been solid so far, but I want to see a bit more before I say he is all star material, or better than Jack for that matter.
                        Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
                          I love the optimism but.... unfortunatly i dont like to judge players by collage or summer league or D- league games.... NBA is a totaly different beast to overcome... most players will show glimses of stardom on givin nights.. very few sustain it long term...id rather give them credit when theve earned it & $ when theve proved they can sustain it.... nuff of all these pay for potential deals too!...

                          as a fan id be much happier aswell if these guys got paid at the end of every season based on performace...but i know the NBAPA would never agree to that...(Too many cash in & check out types out there these days)
                          That's funny DoNDaDDa. Pay players for their performance after the season ends. If only this were the case. Hedo would have gotten $40000 plus his bar tab. How about only 1 year contracts so every year is a contract year. I think we'd see some better basketball.

                          In Japan, it is very common for a CEO to get paid 10x the lowest paid employee. I would like to see NBA players get paid a similar way - 10x the average fan salary.
                          Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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                          • #43
                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            I don't know about you, but I watched the guy when he was at Arizona. You could tell that he was a talent back then.
                            I watched him too and I agree he was great in college because he has the perfect body for college as a scoring Guard/SG . He is simply too small for that role in NBA and hence he has to move to PG spot in which so far, he has not shown the court vision required for the job.

                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            Even in garbage time in Portland, you could see the talent.
                            I disagree. Portland was dying for a good PG. They even inserted Blake as their starting PG which I think we can both agree is not an ALL-STAR caliber PG.

                            Bayless was simply too inconsistent to crack the rotation in Portland. He did show flash of talent ( scoring) but that was shadowed by his unwillingness to pass ( I don't care what PER 36 says since based on that Amir is next Pipen) and his poor shooting %.


                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            How is it not relevant? Billups is an all-star guard. He's been an all-star 5 times. Could Bayless be an all-star? Perhaps. But he can't do that playing 20 minutes or less a night. The kid needs a chance to play major minutes before we find out.
                            Perhaps I can play in NBA as well !! Perhaps, many things can happen but there has to strong supporting evidence before you invest on it.

                            Perhaps, some thought Nortel will bounce back when the stock was 50 cents. Does it mean I go and invest 50 K in it !!! no, it does not.



                            MangoKid wrote: View Post
                            How is it not relevant? Well, unless the NBA adopted the NHL all-star philosophy and is not going with eastern and western conferences and instead a pool of players, then it should matter. Given the right circumstances and if Bayless gets playing time and works really hard, then he could very well become an all star and it would be easier to make it as an east representative as opposed to the west.
                            I think we have a different understanding of this question and hence our disagreement. To me, being an All Star here is not about actually getting voted in.

                            It is about belonging to that class of Elite PG in the league. Being the top 6-7 PG in the NBA. That is being an ALL-STAR to me and not getting voted by the fans and ... Hope that clears why I did not differentiate between East and West and find it irrelevant.

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                            • #44
                              I'm not going to "predict" anything. Give Raptor players a break, just let him play. If he does well, better for him and this organization. If he doesn't, oh well who cares? Anyways he'll contribute, he might not be an all-star, but he can be a Westbrook-esque point guard, not as good obviously, but always could become.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                i think what you all have to understand is no matter how good you are, if you do not fit the team's system, youre shit.
                                Um, maybe thats why Kobe, Jordan, dirk, duncan are now regarded as elite players, because they landed on a team that had a system that fit their skills and capabilities.
                                i think bayless fits the raps system. he probably wasnt that "good" before coz the blazers and NO were not really running teams, but the raps are.

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