View Poll Results: How Good Can Bayless Become?

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  • An All-Star player

    19 29.69%
  • A solid starter but not an All-Star

    33 51.56%
  • A J. Jack type player

    6 9.38%
  • A career bench roatation player

    6 9.38%
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Thread: How Good Can Bayless Become?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    i'm not ready to make any bold predictions for his career... but from what i've seen, at worst, he'll be a GREAT backup guard
    I agree heinz. Its only been a few games. He's been solid so far, but I want to see a bit more before I say he is all star material, or better than Jack for that matter.
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  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    I love the optimism but.... unfortunatly i dont like to judge players by collage or summer league or D- league games.... NBA is a totaly different beast to overcome... most players will show glimses of stardom on givin nights.. very few sustain it long term...id rather give them credit when theve earned it & $ when theve proved they can sustain it.... nuff of all these pay for potential deals too!...

    as a fan id be much happier aswell if these guys got paid at the end of every season based on performace...but i know the NBAPA would never agree to that...(Too many cash in & check out types out there these days)
    That's funny DoNDaDDa. Pay players for their performance after the season ends. If only this were the case. Hedo would have gotten $40000 plus his bar tab. How about only 1 year contracts so every year is a contract year. I think we'd see some better basketball.

    In Japan, it is very common for a CEO to get paid 10x the lowest paid employee. I would like to see NBA players get paid a similar way - 10x the average fan salary.
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  3. #43
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't know about you, but I watched the guy when he was at Arizona. You could tell that he was a talent back then.
    I watched him too and I agree he was great in college because he has the perfect body for college as a scoring Guard/SG . He is simply too small for that role in NBA and hence he has to move to PG spot in which so far, he has not shown the court vision required for the job.

    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Even in garbage time in Portland, you could see the talent.
    I disagree. Portland was dying for a good PG. They even inserted Blake as their starting PG which I think we can both agree is not an ALL-STAR caliber PG.

    Bayless was simply too inconsistent to crack the rotation in Portland. He did show flash of talent ( scoring) but that was shadowed by his unwillingness to pass ( I don't care what PER 36 says since based on that Amir is next Pipen) and his poor shooting %.


    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    How is it not relevant? Billups is an all-star guard. He's been an all-star 5 times. Could Bayless be an all-star? Perhaps. But he can't do that playing 20 minutes or less a night. The kid needs a chance to play major minutes before we find out.
    Perhaps I can play in NBA as well !! Perhaps, many things can happen but there has to strong supporting evidence before you invest on it.

    Perhaps, some thought Nortel will bounce back when the stock was 50 cents. Does it mean I go and invest 50 K in it !!! no, it does not.



    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    How is it not relevant? Well, unless the NBA adopted the NHL all-star philosophy and is not going with eastern and western conferences and instead a pool of players, then it should matter. Given the right circumstances and if Bayless gets playing time and works really hard, then he could very well become an all star and it would be easier to make it as an east representative as opposed to the west.
    I think we have a different understanding of this question and hence our disagreement. To me, being an All Star here is not about actually getting voted in.

    It is about belonging to that class of Elite PG in the league. Being the top 6-7 PG in the NBA. That is being an ALL-STAR to me and not getting voted by the fans and ... Hope that clears why I did not differentiate between East and West and find it irrelevant.

  4. #44
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    I'm not going to "predict" anything. Give Raptor players a break, just let him play. If he does well, better for him and this organization. If he doesn't, oh well who cares? Anyways he'll contribute, he might not be an all-star, but he can be a Westbrook-esque point guard, not as good obviously, but always could become.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    i think what you all have to understand is no matter how good you are, if you do not fit the team's system, youre shit.
    Um, maybe thats why Kobe, Jordan, dirk, duncan are now regarded as elite players, because they landed on a team that had a system that fit their skills and capabilities.
    i think bayless fits the raps system. he probably wasnt that "good" before coz the blazers and NO were not really running teams, but the raps are.

  6. #46
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    I watched him too and I agree he was great in college because he has the perfect body for college as a scoring Guard/SG . He is simply too small for that role in NBA and hence he has to move to PG spot in which so far, he has not shown the court vision required for the job.


    I disagree. Portland was dying for a good PG. They even inserted Blake as their starting PG which I think we can both agree is not an ALL-STAR caliber PG.

    Bayless was simply too inconsistent to crack the rotation in Portland. He did show flash of talent ( scoring) but that was shadowed by his unwillingness to pass ( I don't care what PER 36 says since based on that Amir is next Pipen) and his poor shooting %.




    Perhaps I can play in NBA as well !! Perhaps, many things can happen but there has to strong supporting evidence before you invest on it.

    Perhaps, some thought Nortel will bounce back when the stock was 50 cents. Does it mean I go and invest 50 K in it !!! no, it does not.





    I think we have a different understanding of this question and hence our disagreement. To me, being an All Star here is not about actually getting voted in.

    It is about belonging to that class of Elite PG in the league. Being the top 6-7 PG in the NBA. That is being an ALL-STAR to me and not getting voted by the fans and ... Hope that clears why I did not differentiate between East and West and find it irrelevant.
    @Raptor4Ever : It's funny how you left out how Bayless performed in last year's playoffs. He fared pretty well. If you don't like the kid, just come out and say so. What I like about him is that the kid has a confidence and swagger to him, is fearless, can shoot the rock reasonably well, drives to the basket pretty well and has a good motor to be a pesky defender. There's a reason why he was listed as a top-10 pick in a lot of mock drafts - because he's got a lot of talent. Of course, not talent alone makes you a star - he's got decent basketball IQ. His downfall in Portland is that he's not a true PG. They have a lot of guys on that team that require a lot of touches - Roy, Aldridge, Fernandez. There's no way that he could have as much shots and still facilitate everyone. They were also in a win now situation and Blake/Miller are good PGs for that - those guys are more of a pure 1.

    There's no way you can tell me that he won't be a special player for this team - that's my opinion and my belief, just as I can't tell you otherwise about your opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    @Raptor4Ever : It's funny how you left out how Bayless performed in last year's playoffs.
    .
    He performed well but obviously not good enough and hence Portland that needed a PG real bad was willing to give up on him and trade him.

    Again, no one denies the kid has some talent but it is how consistant he is and what is his ceiling and ...

    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post

    If you don't like the kid, just come out and say so.
    .

    I have nothing against the kid and I hope he proves me wrong and come out this season and below up everyone and dominate the other PGs every night.
    p
    Lets Look at Tonighs number of WestBrook and Harden , both PG against Bayless !!!

    Was that ALL-STAR Performance from BAYLESS !!!

    My problem here is that some people here are rushing to Judgment and I just like to see more from him before declare that he is going to be all star in this league.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    He performed well but obviously not good enough and hence Portland that needed a PG real bad was willing to give up on him and trade him.

    Again, no one denies the kid has some talent but it is how consistant he is and what is his ceiling and ...




    I have nothing against the kid and I hope he proves me wrong and come out this season and below up everyone and dominate the other PGs every night.
    p
    Lets Look at Tonighs number of WestBrook and Harden , both PG against Bayless !!!

    Was that ALL-STAR Performance from BAYLESS !!!

    My problem here is that some people here are rushing to Judgment and I just like to see more from him before declare that he is going to be all star in this league.
    I don't think Bayless will be an All-Star. I said a few times I would like to see him become a Leandro Barbosa type player.

    One thing to keep in mind though with his departure from Portland is they had the Fernandez situation. They were trying to get a 1st round pick for Rudy with no takers. NOH comes along and offers a top 7/8 protected 1st round pick for Bayless. Obviously NOH thought highly of him especially with GM and former asst. coach now in NO. Plus clearing a player who will take some of the minutes from Rudy (plus the addition of Matthews) made him expendable plus they got a 1st round draft pick.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    i think what you all have to understand is no matter how good you are, if you do not fit the team's system, youre shit.
    Um, maybe thats why Kobe, Jordan, dirk, duncan are now regarded as elite players, because they landed on a team that had a system that fit their skills and capabilities.
    i think bayless fits the raps system. he probably wasnt that "good" before coz the blazers and NO were not really running teams, but the raps are.
    I agree with the basic point on the post.

    I would add one thought.

    Sometimes when a player is really talented a team will build their team style around his/her game.

    Look at Howard in Orlando.

    There is no doubt that the Magic's defense and now even offense are designed around his unique and growing skill set.

    The same thing is happening with the Clippers and Grifffin. Yes EJ is a very good player but the Clippers offense and defensive sets are deigned to take advantage of Blake's unique and incredible skill set.

    There are many more instances of this. I just named two.

    However even in the two instances I sighted above if the Magic and now Clippers had chosen to build their core game style in a way that was not designed to take advantage of Howard and Griffin's unique skill sets then their games while they wouldn't be sheet would not be as good as they are and will become. Howard continues to improve and Griffin will clearly get better as long as he remains healthy.
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  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Bayless will be an All-Star. I said a few times I would like to see him become a Leandro Barbosa type player.

    One thing to keep in mind though with his departure from Portland is they had the Fernandez situation. They were trying to get a 1st round pick for Rudy with no takers. NOH comes along and offers a top 7/8 protected 1st round pick for Bayless. Obviously NOH thought highly of him especially with GM and former asst. coach now in NO. Plus clearing a player who will take some of the minutes from Rudy (plus the addition of Matthews) made him expendable plus they got a 1st round draft pick.
    Bayless is a far better passer than Barbosa. He also has a higher basketball IQ

    I don't see that comparison at all.

    His game is more like Westbrook's than it is Barbosa.

    I am not saying that Bayless is as good as Westbrook or ever will become as good. No way I would say that considering that Westbrook is a former Bruin and Bayless played for the despised Wildcats
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  11. #51
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Bayless is a far better passer than Barbosa. He also has a higher basketball IQ

    I don't see that comparison at all.

    His game is more like Westbrook's than it is Barbosa.

    I am not saying that Bayless is as good as Westbrook or ever will become as good. No way I would say that considering that Westbrook is a former Bruin and Bayless played for the despised Wildcats
    Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't see similar games I see similar roles i.e. first guard off the bench/sixth man of the year.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't see similar games I see similar roles i.e. first guard off the bench/sixth man of the year.
    Not if the Raptors can keep Barbosa after this season and beyond 2011-12 He has a player option for 2011-12.

    If Barbosa stays with the Raptors and the Raptors give Bayless an extension when it is time by the time of his extension I can see him starting.

    Bayless has two more seasons on his current contract including a QO for 2012-13.

    So by 2013-14 I can see him starting if he is still with the Raptors at that time.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Dec 4th, 2010 at 11:25 AM.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Not if the Raptors can keep Barbosa after this season and beyond 2011-12 He has a player option for 2011-12.

    If Barbosa stays with the Raptors and the Raptors give Bayless an extension when it is time by the time of his extension I can see him starting.

    Bayless has two more seasons on his current contract including a QO for 2012-13.

    So by 2013-14 I can see him starting if he is still with the Raptors at that time.
    You'll have to trust me when I say I am well aware of contracts.

    Who says the Raptors keep Barbosa? Who says they keep Calderon? Both are older players, both could help playoff teams, both have injury concerns. The idea is usually to sell high - especially when their values have been very low in recent past.

    I see BC doing everything he can to get an elite PG through draft or trade. This is only my opinion but his history shows how much emphasis he places on PG's. No offense to Calderon but he is not an elite PG and he is 29. Bayless could be a good PG but elite or All-Star does not appear to be likely. These are all my opinions.

  14. #54
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You'll have to trust me when I say I am well aware of contracts.

    Who says the Raptors keep Barbosa? Who says they keep Calderon? Both are older players, both could help playoff teams, both have injury concerns. The idea is usually to sell high - especially when their values have been very low in recent past.

    I see BC doing everything he can to get an elite PG through draft or trade. This is only my opinion but his history shows how much emphasis he places on PG's. No offense to Calderon but he is not an elite PG and he is 29. Bayless could be a good PG but elite or All-Star does not appear to be likely. These are all my opinions.
    "Who says the Raptors keep............?"

    Pistons fans have been trying to dump Hamilton since the Pistons acquired him.

    He is still around.

    A lot of Raptor fans having been wanting to dump Calderon for quite a while. He is still around.

    My sense is that both Calderon and Barbosa will be in their current roles come the 2011-12 season assuming that there is even a season come 2011-12.

    We shall see.

    You can vote in the poll of my new thread. I think I know how you will vote
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  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    I think that the sky is the limit on this kid, his defense is good, he can penetrate, but the next level of bayless' game will happen when after penetrating rather than looking for his own shot he can draw the help defense and kick out, with the type of penetration this kid can do, he can be like a chris paul or deron williams if he learns to do that. One day jose calderon will get injured, and at that time jerryd bayless will get the minutes that he has never gotten in his career to show what he can do. Then you'll see he wont give his starting position back, thats when we will get to see how good he can be, and he has the talent to be an allstar, its just about whether or not he accepts that role and is given the play time.

  16. #56
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    "Who says the Raptors keep............?"

    Pistons fans have been trying to dump Hamilton since the Pistons acquired him.

    He is still around.

    A lot of Raptor fans having been wanting to dump Calderon for quite a while. He is still around.

    My sense is that both Calderon and Barbosa will be in their current roles come the 2011-12 season assuming that there is even a season come 2011-12.

    We shall see.

    You can vote in the poll of my new thread. I think I know how you will vote
    To be desired in a trade by another team, one would have to play well. Calderon and Barbosa have not played well for arguably the last 2 seasons. They are playing well now. If they keep playing well between now and February I would imagine there would be interest from both contenders and fringe playoff teams.

    Hamilton is a bad example for the last 2 seasons. He signed an awful extension which has him making over $12M for the next 2 seasons, his game has slipped considerably, he is 32, and the Pistons really struck out on the signings of Charlie V. and Ben Gordon.

  17. #57
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I think that the sky is the limit on this kid, his defense is good, he can penetrate, but the next level of bayless' game will happen when after penetrating rather than looking for his own shot he can draw the help defense and kick out, with the type of penetration this kid can do, he can be like a chris paul or deron williams if he learns to do that. One day jose calderon will get injured, and at that time jerryd bayless will get the minutes that he has never gotten in his career to show what he can do. Then you'll see he wont give his starting position back, thats when we will get to see how good he can be, and he has the talent to be an allstar, its just about whether or not he accepts that role and is given the play time.
    He had a nice penetrade and kick out to a wide open Bargnani for a 3 last night. One play but I think he is capable.

  18. #58
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    To be desired in a trade by another team, one would have to play well. Calderon and Barbosa have not played well for arguably the last 2 seasons. They are playing well now. If they keep playing well between now and February I would imagine there would be interest from both contenders and fringe playoff teams.

    Hamilton is a bad example for the last 2 seasons. He signed an awful extension which has him making over $12M for the next 2 seasons, his game has slipped considerably, he is 32, and the Pistons really struck out on the signings of Charlie V. and Ben Gordon.
    Hamilton is very good example.

    The Pistons fans wanted to trade him from day #1 after the Pistons acquired him. He played excellent basketball even as I recall making the all-star team once and leading the Pistons in scoring for a number of season. All before he signed his current contract which I agree is a difficult one to move. However, that was far from the case in all the seasons prior to his current contract.

    Using you stock market analysis on starting NBA players does not logically compare.

    Ignoring the contract side of it which I happen to think is a fair one for Calderon as long as can stay healthy your reasoning says that the Lakers should have traded Kobe two seasons ago when he finally won a NBA title without Shaq. Something tells me that you won't get too many basketball fans or writers/bloggers to say nothing about NBA executive and players that agree with that sell high theory of yours as applied to Kobe and to any solid NBA starter which Calderon is when he is healthy despite his defensive shortcoming
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  19. #59
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Hamilton is very good example.

    The Pistons fans wanted to trade him from day #1 after the Pistons acquired him. He played excellent basketball even as I recall making the all-star team once and leading the Pistons in scoring for a number of season. All before he signed his current contract which I agree is a difficult one to move. However, that was far from the case in all the seasons prior to his current contract.

    Using you stock market analysis on starting NBA players does not logically compare.

    Ignoring the contract side of it which I happen to think is a fair one for Calderon as long as can stay healthy your reasoning says that the Lakers should have traded Kobe two seasons ago when he finally won a NBA title without Shaq. Something tells me that you won't get too many basketball fans or writers/bloggers to say nothing about NBA executive and players that agree with that sell high theory of yours as applied to Kobe and to any solid NBA starter which Calderon is when he is healthy despite his defensive shortcoming
    LOL - you lost me comparing Kobe to Calderon.

    Bottom line: When the core of the team - besides Barbosa and Calderon - are 25 and under, Jose and Barbosa as of now they are taking of $17.3 of the $45M committed to salary next season, and both have had serious injuries the last number of years, if you can get promising players still on rookie deals (such as Bayless) or draft picks, you move them. That is only my opinion, if you disagree so be it. I respect what you're saying, I just don't agree.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't think Bayless will be an All-Star. I said a few times I would like to see him become a Leandro Barbosa type player.

    .
    I fully agree with your above statement.

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