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Thread: Is the Barbosa-Turkoglu trade one of the best of all-time?

  1. #1
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    Default Is the Barbosa-Turkoglu trade one of the best of all-time?

    20 games into the 2010/11 NBA season and us Raptor fans can be extremely happy with our 8-11 record which is better than what most predicted. This is to do with the great effort put in by the team, the players stepping up and our bench. Our bench has been very important in every game, and have either given or kept our lead or helped to go on a run to get close. Now our bench is lead by Leandro Barbosa, he has been very good in his first few months as a Raptor. He has had some great shooting nights, is very quick and brings a lot of energy onto the floor.

    Barbosa has been a consistent player since he joined the league, know to be a great shooter and dribbler, he helped the Suns to many winning records. In 2007 he won the sixth man award after posting up 18 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds in 33 minutes whilst shooting 48, 43 and 85 percent. Those are great numbers, especially for a volume shooter. And those aren't just fluke numbers, he shot above 46% for 5 consecutive years before his final with the Suns. Over his career he has been a great presence off the bench, and averages 13 points a game in his 500 game career. Including the current season he has averaged double-digit scoring 5 times in his career, scoring less than 10 only in his rookie and sophomore seasons and narrowly missing it (9.5 ppg) last year largely because of injury.
    His per36 numbers also show how efficient and consistent he has been in his career, averaging 18 points per 36 minutes over his entire career.

    His PER has also been 'average' all of his career. Only getting under 15 (league average) in his first 2 seasons and last year when he was hit by injury. His career best PER is 19.4 which is very good for a bench player. When you look at guards who have had a PER higher than 19.4 in the past 10 years, you get a list of greats.

    Barbosa's career PER is 16 which puts him in the 'above average' category.

    Barbosa has 2 years left on his contract which would give him $15 million including this year, although his second year is a player option. He was traded by the Suns for a 'fan favorite' Hedo Turkoglu, who is 3 years older and has a 4 years left on his huge contract.

    Hedo has had some great moments in his career, outside Toronto of course, but hasn't been all that spectacular.

    He was relatively unknown until joining Orlando where he has a decent time. He was considered a decent player for the most part of his career until 2008 where he had Ginobili-like numbers getting career highs in minutes (37), points (19.5), rebounds (5.7) and assists (5.0). But was already on the other side of his twenties and was clearly at his best. The year after, his contract year, he was again quite good and was good in the playoffs as well. He was one of the most sought after Free Agents, and 'lucky' us, we signed him. At this point he was turning 30 and a 5 year deal was pretty excessive.

    In his career he averaged 15.5 points per 36 which is less than Barbosa, and he did so whilst shooting under 43%. His best PER, which he got on his 19 6 5 year was just 17.8, and over his career he had a PER of 14.8 which is under the league average of 15.

    Now comparing the two players.

    Barbosa has a better contract, as it is shorter (2 vs 4) and is smaller (7.6 vs 10).
    Barbosa is younger and is in his prime, whilst Turkoglu is 31 and far passed it.
    Barbosa has been far more efficient in his career than Turkoglu has.
    Barbosa isn't fat.
    Barbosa fits in our fast paced style of play.
    Barbosa has had a higher PER than Turkoglu over their careers, and has a higher highest PER (19.4 vs 17.8) and lowest PER (12.7 vs 11.7).
    Barbosa still contributes today, Turkoglu has been having a horrible season.
    Barbosa doesn't hurt a team with his contract.

    Is this the best trade of all time, as in the most one sided trade? I say yes

    What do you think? Luck or smarts by Colangelo, or idiocy by the part of the Suns' management?

    Discuss

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    turk who ?

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    Quote South_Side_Jane wrote: View Post
    turk who ?
    This guy

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    Very well thought post, Joe.

    The best for who? BC? TOR? League? Either way that is a tough question.

    Personally, I think it is/was an awesome trade and I thought that before the benefit of hindsight. It was definitely smarts by Colangelo - he didn't just get rid of Turk the person and Turk the contract but he got a valuable piece in return. As you mentioned through Barbosa's playing career he has been a very productive player - he just had a bad year - and he seems like a really good person and teammate.

    BC is on a bit of a hot streak (hopefully I do not jinx him). This trade plus Bayless/Peja for JJ/scraps is also looking to be a steal. Peja does have value. I am not advocating getting Iggy but Peja was telling those around him days before the TOR/NOH trade that he was going to Philly - that tells you his contract does have value whether it is used as a trade chip or not.

    I am very much looking forward to what happens between now and the trade deadline.

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    Thank you Lon Babby!!!!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Rookie SaskatchewanSun's Avatar
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    I dont know about the "best trade", but it was definitely a good one for the Raptors. Not to mention an absolute necessity to get Hedo out of Toronto

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Very well thought post, Joe.

    The best for who? BC? TOR? League? Either way that is a tough question.

    Personally, I think it is/was an awesome trade and I thought that before the benefit of hindsight. It was definitely smarts by Colangelo - he didn't just get rid of Turk the person and Turk the contract but he got a valuable piece in return. As you mentioned through Barbosa's playing career he has been a very productive player - he just had a bad year - and he seems like a really good person and teammate.

    BC is on a bit of a hot streak (hopefully I do not jinx him). This trade plus Bayless/Peja for JJ/scraps is also looking to be a steal. Peja does have value. I am not advocating getting Iggy but Peja was telling those around him days before the TOR/NOH trade that he was going to Philly - that tells you his contract does have value whether it is used as a trade chip or not.

    I am very much looking forward to what happens between now and the trade deadline.
    Thanks.

    I think this trade not only helps the team, but helps us on the long-run to develop. It also gives Colangelo a little break and Triano flexibilty on offense. Toronto won this trade.

    It was a one sided trade, on 2k11 they would decline and ask for all your picks. :P

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I am very much looking forward to what happens between now and the trade deadline.
    I think Peja and Reggie are the only 2 that could leave, I hope Triano makes it a point to tell Colangelo that he needs a compact team, a team with chemistry, and moving players around is not what he needs.

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    Quote SaskatchewanSun wrote: View Post
    I dont know about the "best trade", but it was definitely a good one for the Raptors. Not to mention an absolute necessity to get Hedo out of Toronto
    It could very well be the best.

    From this trade we got:

    1) a better player
    2) a cheaper player
    3) a younger player
    4) a shorter contract
    5) a good trade bait
    6) a player who can still contribute

    And we lost:

    1) a player who disrupted the team
    2) a bad player
    3) a long contract
    4) an expensive contract
    5) a fat guy

    We not only lost nothing, but got rid of our biggest and most untradable problem, and got a more than decent player. I don't know any trade that has been this one-sided in history.

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    few years back the lakers traded for this Pau Gasol guy....

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    Quote Grrr wrote: View Post
    few years back the lakers traded for this Pau Gasol guy....
    Yeah, but Memphis got Marc Gasol.

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    Great post, it is time people understood the specs of this trade. Thanks for the stats it helps show the magnitude of the BC theft.
    The Brazillian Blur may be the fastest Raptor to the bucket ever. How could you as a manager imagine trading him away when the numbers are so lopsided. BC had to tap-dance, real good, to bushwack and sandbag the talent of Turk.
    After watching The Blur for years then finding out he was ours , I screamed.
    BC without Bosh can now build the team to run, run , run. That is what he wanted in the first place.

    I agree , best trade ever.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    I think the Bayless and Peja trade is much more impressive than the turkoglu/barbosa trade. That one move gave us a sick pg for the future and significant cap space to sign a superstar with peja's contract off the books. We will be a great team in the next 4 years. wooooooooooooh!!

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    Nope.

    Not even close.

    The Bayless trade was far better
    The trade for Weems and that other guy was a lot better

    So just in the last two seasons BC has two trades that will far more beneficial to the Raptors over the long haul than the Barbosa trade.
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    Wow...you guys make BC sound like a very good GM...

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Nope.

    Not even close.

    The Bayless trade was far better
    The trade for Weems and that other guy was a lot better

    So just in the last two seasons BC has two trades that will far more beneficial to the Raptors over the long haul than the Barbosa trade.
    You have to consider what we lost in those trades. If you consider a 'useless' player a 0, and a good player a 1, Turkoglu is a -1. In those trades we didn't lose anything and gained some nice players, but in the Turkoglu trade we lost a horrible player and gained a decent player. Let's just oversimplify it here, the Hedo trade would be 1 - (-1) = 2. The Weems or Bayless trade is 1 - 0 = 1. I don't know if you get what I mean, but getting rid of Hedo and getting a decent player for him is nearly impossible, getting lucky on small trades happens.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Nope.

    Not even close.

    The Bayless trade was far better
    The trade for Weems and that other guy was a lot better

    So just in the last two seasons BC has two trades that will far more beneficial to the Raptors over the long haul than the Barbosa trade.
    and that other guy? You mean Amir? How could you not possibly not know that?

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    Quote raptorsfan4life wrote: View Post
    and that other guy? You mean amir? How could you not possibly not know that?
    lol

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    LOL those threads of hope always followed by gawed awful performances as if they were actually jinxed, very bad game by Barbosa against the Knicks after a great performance against OKC.

    This trade has long term implications pending on what Colangelo does with Barbosa expiring contract.

  20. #20
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Nope.

    Not even close.

    The Bayless trade was far better
    The trade for Weems and that other guy was a lot better

    So just in the last two seasons BC has two trades that will far more beneficial to the Raptors over the long haul than the Barbosa trade.
    Getting Turk off the books for the next 4 years - eventhough he gave him the contract is besides the point - was phenomenal.

    The other two trades are very good as well. I think this would be a three-way tie.

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