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Demar or Sonny- who gets traded first?

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  • #16
    I guess this makes Amir, "the lone ranger"

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    • #17
      Amir can be Hercules, Demar can be that little dude with the half goat body that says "the ring herc the ring" , what's his name, Newton? Neutred?

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      • #18
        Guys, this happens every year. Player A is hyped to no end, then player A doesn't live up to said unrealistic expectations and is finally thrown under the bus. Seriously, this is paint by numbers every year when it comes to predicting reactions.

        A player's fate isn't decided in one month. Lots of guys struggle early in their careers and then turn out great. Look up Alex English's career for example. DeMar struggled through most of his one and only year of college, then "got it" and carried his team much further than anyone could have anticipated. Really, what he did was spectacular in the tournies. Good things come to those who wait. Bad things come to those who don't. Did you know that Chauncy Billups was a Raptor? Not for long though because they were too damn impatient when he didn't show greatness from the get go.

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        • #19
          Apollo wrote: View Post
          Guys, this happens every year. Player A is hyped to no end, then player A doesn't live up to said unrealistic expectations and is finally thrown under the bus. Seriously, this is paint by numbers every year when it comes to predicting reactions.

          A player's fate isn't decided in one month. Lots of guys struggle early in their careers and then turn out great. Look up Alex English's career for example. DeMar struggled through most of his one and only year of college, then "got it" and carried his team much further than anyone could have anticipated. Good thing come to those who wait. Bad things come to those who don't. Did you know that Chauncy Billups was a Raptor? Not for long though because they were too damn impatient when he didn't show greatness from the get go.
          That's true. I would argue that Billups got a much better shot after he got traded with a better coaching staff and deeper basketball organization.

          I'm not one to say that either Sonny and Demar won't suddenly 'emerge', but I can tell u that Demar is far more protected than Weems.

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          • #20
            When DeMar emerges it won't be sudden. It should be no shock to anyone who watches the games like you and I because he shows flashes of it now. Just like sometimes Bargnani shows flashes of knowing what he's doing in the paint. If he ever puts it together I won't be shocked.

            And honestly, I don't care if Weems stays or goes. I was saying in the pre-season that the lofty expectations on him by fans were unfair and borderline ridiculous. I remember the T-Mac/Carter reference... It was totally out to lunch. My point with keeping Weems is that his contract is so small and insignificant and his futre deal will probably be so small and insignificant then why the heck does it matter if he stays? The guy isn't going to land the Raptors a stud, just another flawed player who teases from time to time.
            Last edited by Apollo; Tue Dec 7, 2010, 02:37 PM.

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            • #21
              Funny though, I really thought that Weems might make the leap sooner than later, but his propensity for ball sticking and chucking puts him in TJ/JJ territory...which means only one thing..

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              • #22
                Why does one of them have to go? This was supposed to be a season of rebuilding. Weems is a solid player to have around. He's maybe good to start in a pinch, but not on the regular. He'd be fantastic off the bench and would be fantastic to keep around because of his athletic ability and energy.
                DeRozan you have to remember is only 20 and he's taking on more responsibility. He'll turn it around. Some of you are expecting a bit too much. Baby steps people, baby steps.

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                • #23
                  MangoKid wrote: View Post
                  Why does one of them have to go? This was supposed to be a season of rebuilding. Weems is a solid player to have around. He's maybe good to start in a pinch, but not on the regular. He'd be fantastic off the bench and would be fantastic to keep around because of his athletic ability and energy.
                  DeRozan you have to remember is only 20 and he's taking on more responsibility. He'll turn it around. Some of you are expecting a bit too much. Baby steps people, baby steps.
                  I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?

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                  • #24
                    Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?
                    I find this so funny coming for a hardcore die hard Bargnani fan. You of all people should be able to understand the concept of players taking time to develop. The biggest names I've ever heard in Bargnani trade rumors since he's been here have been Richard Jefferson and Yi Jianlian. How would either of those rumored discussions have worked out if Colangelo had pulled the trigger? Would that avatar of yours be of RJ right now?

                    Most teams lose during a rebuild Multipaul. The Raptors have always lost during rebuilds. It is, what it is. You're going to have to get used to it because I think Raptors brass knew this was coming, they just couldn't admit to it because its bad public relations and bad business. They're not going to start making trades now because they have a losing record, it can't be a surprise to them. This had to have been expected given the weak roster they had entering the season. It looks just as bad now as it did before opening tip, it's just that now fans can't use tunnel vision.

                    Like I said in pre-season. People around here were really setting themselves up for great disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
                    Last edited by Apollo; Tue Dec 7, 2010, 03:50 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Multipaul wrote: View Post
                      That's true. I would argue that Billups got a much better shot after he got traded with a better coaching staff and deeper basketball organization.

                      I'm not one to say that either Sonny and Demar won't suddenly 'emerge', but I can tell u that Demar is far more protected than Weems.
                      Multipaul, just in case you were unaware of Billups history...he was chosen I believe #3 by Boston/Pitino. Pitino was convinced he was the PG he wanted. And he was. But he did not wait long enough and we cannot say that Boston does not have a deep basketball staff or history but yet they let him go in his first season!!...to Toronto for Kenny Anderson (who didnt want to play here). DD is playing horrible right now but he does need more time for a good evaluation.

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                      • #26
                        Bendit wrote: View Post
                        Multipaul, just in case you were unaware of Billups history...he was chosen I believe #3 by Boston/Pitino. Pitino was convinced he was the PG he wanted. And he was. But he did not wait long enough and we cannot say that Boston does not have a deep basketball staff or history but yet they let him go in his first season!!...to Toronto for Kenny Anderson (who didnt want to play here). DD is playing horrible right now but he does need more time for a good evaluation.
                        LOL, it didn't end there. They gave up on Joe Johnson in his first season, trading him to Colangelo's Suns. B.C. fleeced the Celtics on that one BIG TIME. Four years in JJ became a high impact player. Six years in, the beginning of a perennial all-star. I bet there were a lot of impatient Celtics fans screaming for him to be traded during his rookie season... Good things come to those who wait.

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                        • #27
                          Multipaul wrote: View Post
                          I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?
                          So what you're saying is that you're looking for a quick-fix solution? Those type of moves only work for contending teams. We're trying to build a team that will be a perennial top-3/4 team in the East and contending for the title year in and out for the next decade plus, not a team that will get #8 spot and get squashed in the first round. There should be no urgency to make knee-jerk reaction moves. Slow and steady with the course. We're on the right track.

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                          • #28
                            There are several people in this thread who are advocating that either Demar or Sonny get traded (packaged with either Peja of Klieiza), or even ship both out. My question is not whether it makese sense in the long run (or the short run), but rather what trades do the advocates for this position see as possible to make in this situation?

                            What is a reasonable trade involving Demar?
                            What is a reasonable trade involving Sonny?

                            Are they seen in a positive light around the league that other teams would be willing to give up equal talent for them?
                            http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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                            • #29
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              I find this so funny coming for a hardcore die hard Bargnani fan. You of all people should be able to understand the concept of players taking time to develop. The biggest names I've ever heard in Bargnani trade rumors since he's been here have been Richard Jefferson and Yi Jianlian. How would either of those rumored discussions have worked out if Colangelo had pulled the trigger? Would that avatar of yours be of RJ right now?

                              Most teams lose during a rebuild Multipaul. The Raptors have always lost during rebuilds. It is, what it is. You're going to have to get used to it because I think Raptors brass knew this was coming, they just couldn't admit to it because its bad public relations and bad business. They're not going to start making trades now because they have a losing record, it can't be a surprise to them. This had to have been expected given the weak roster they had entering the season. It looks just as bad now as it did before opening tip, it's just that now fans can't use tunnel vision.

                              Like I said in pre-season. People around here were really setting themselves up for great disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
                              Hey Apollo,

                              How many wing players has Bryco kept around here to watch develop? That is one position you can't afford to lollygag on if you want to win. Demar was our rook so will be kept most likely. Demar should be put on the bench until he earns starters minutes, you and I both know that. Weems is a variable as he is so cheap now and has flashes of greatness. He should not be starting , but would make good trade fodder, and you better believe BC knows that. Sonny should be more concerned than anyone.

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                              • #30
                                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                                So what you're saying is that you're looking for a quick-fix solution? Those type of moves only work for contending teams. We're trying to build a team that will be a perennial top-3/4 team in the East and contending for the title year in and out for the next decade plus, not a team that will get #8 spot and get squashed in the first round. There should be no urgency to make knee-jerk reaction moves. Slow and steady with the course. We're on the right track.
                                That's a good point. So what is the solution to get some wins now? I think both should be on the bench. Weems is trade bait if I've ever seen it.

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