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Thread: Demar or Sonny- who gets traded first?

  1. #21
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    Funny though, I really thought that Weems might make the leap sooner than later, but his propensity for ball sticking and chucking puts him in TJ/JJ territory...which means only one thing..

  2. #22
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Why does one of them have to go? This was supposed to be a season of rebuilding. Weems is a solid player to have around. He's maybe good to start in a pinch, but not on the regular. He'd be fantastic off the bench and would be fantastic to keep around because of his athletic ability and energy.
    DeRozan you have to remember is only 20 and he's taking on more responsibility. He'll turn it around. Some of you are expecting a bit too much. Baby steps people, baby steps.

  3. #23
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Why does one of them have to go? This was supposed to be a season of rebuilding. Weems is a solid player to have around. He's maybe good to start in a pinch, but not on the regular. He'd be fantastic off the bench and would be fantastic to keep around because of his athletic ability and energy.
    DeRozan you have to remember is only 20 and he's taking on more responsibility. He'll turn it around. Some of you are expecting a bit too much. Baby steps people, baby steps.
    I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?

  4. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?
    I find this so funny coming for a hardcore die hard Bargnani fan. You of all people should be able to understand the concept of players taking time to develop. The biggest names I've ever heard in Bargnani trade rumors since he's been here have been Richard Jefferson and Yi Jianlian. How would either of those rumored discussions have worked out if Colangelo had pulled the trigger? Would that avatar of yours be of RJ right now?

    Most teams lose during a rebuild Multipaul. The Raptors have always lost during rebuilds. It is, what it is. You're going to have to get used to it because I think Raptors brass knew this was coming, they just couldn't admit to it because its bad public relations and bad business. They're not going to start making trades now because they have a losing record, it can't be a surprise to them. This had to have been expected given the weak roster they had entering the season. It looks just as bad now as it did before opening tip, it's just that now fans can't use tunnel vision.

    Like I said in pre-season. People around here were really setting themselves up for great disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
    Last edited by Apollo; Tue Dec 7th, 2010 at 02:50 PM.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    That's true. I would argue that Billups got a much better shot after he got traded with a better coaching staff and deeper basketball organization.

    I'm not one to say that either Sonny and Demar won't suddenly 'emerge', but I can tell u that Demar is far more protected than Weems.
    Multipaul, just in case you were unaware of Billups history...he was chosen I believe #3 by Boston/Pitino. Pitino was convinced he was the PG he wanted. And he was. But he did not wait long enough and we cannot say that Boston does not have a deep basketball staff or history but yet they let him go in his first season!!...to Toronto for Kenny Anderson (who didnt want to play here). DD is playing horrible right now but he does need more time for a good evaluation.

  6. #26
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Multipaul, just in case you were unaware of Billups history...he was chosen I believe #3 by Boston/Pitino. Pitino was convinced he was the PG he wanted. And he was. But he did not wait long enough and we cannot say that Boston does not have a deep basketball staff or history but yet they let him go in his first season!!...to Toronto for Kenny Anderson (who didnt want to play here). DD is playing horrible right now but he does need more time for a good evaluation.
    LOL, it didn't end there. They gave up on Joe Johnson in his first season, trading him to Colangelo's Suns. B.C. fleeced the Celtics on that one BIG TIME. Four years in JJ became a high impact player. Six years in, the beginning of a perennial all-star. I bet there were a lot of impatient Celtics fans screaming for him to be traded during his rookie season... Good things come to those who wait.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    I assume then that you acknowledge the importance of the 2-3 spot, and by ur statements, are suggesting its ok we lose all the time because we are "rebuilding"? Therefore, ignore a trade for one of these guys that could upgrade us?
    So what you're saying is that you're looking for a quick-fix solution? Those type of moves only work for contending teams. We're trying to build a team that will be a perennial top-3/4 team in the East and contending for the title year in and out for the next decade plus, not a team that will get #8 spot and get squashed in the first round. There should be no urgency to make knee-jerk reaction moves. Slow and steady with the course. We're on the right track.

  8. #28
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    There are several people in this thread who are advocating that either Demar or Sonny get traded (packaged with either Peja of Klieiza), or even ship both out. My question is not whether it makese sense in the long run (or the short run), but rather what trades do the advocates for this position see as possible to make in this situation?

    What is a reasonable trade involving Demar?
    What is a reasonable trade involving Sonny?

    Are they seen in a positive light around the league that other teams would be willing to give up equal talent for them?

  9. #29
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I find this so funny coming for a hardcore die hard Bargnani fan. You of all people should be able to understand the concept of players taking time to develop. The biggest names I've ever heard in Bargnani trade rumors since he's been here have been Richard Jefferson and Yi Jianlian. How would either of those rumored discussions have worked out if Colangelo had pulled the trigger? Would that avatar of yours be of RJ right now?

    Most teams lose during a rebuild Multipaul. The Raptors have always lost during rebuilds. It is, what it is. You're going to have to get used to it because I think Raptors brass knew this was coming, they just couldn't admit to it because its bad public relations and bad business. They're not going to start making trades now because they have a losing record, it can't be a surprise to them. This had to have been expected given the weak roster they had entering the season. It looks just as bad now as it did before opening tip, it's just that now fans can't use tunnel vision.

    Like I said in pre-season. People around here were really setting themselves up for great disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
    Hey Apollo,

    How many wing players has Bryco kept around here to watch develop? That is one position you can't afford to lollygag on if you want to win. Demar was our rook so will be kept most likely. Demar should be put on the bench until he earns starters minutes, you and I both know that. Weems is a variable as he is so cheap now and has flashes of greatness. He should not be starting , but would make good trade fodder, and you better believe BC knows that. Sonny should be more concerned than anyone.

  10. #30
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    So what you're saying is that you're looking for a quick-fix solution? Those type of moves only work for contending teams. We're trying to build a team that will be a perennial top-3/4 team in the East and contending for the title year in and out for the next decade plus, not a team that will get #8 spot and get squashed in the first round. There should be no urgency to make knee-jerk reaction moves. Slow and steady with the course. We're on the right track.
    That's a good point. So what is the solution to get some wins now? I think both should be on the bench. Weems is trade bait if I've ever seen it.

  11. #31
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Hey Apollo,

    How many wing players has Bryco kept around here to watch develop? That is one position you can't afford to lollygag on if you want to win.
    Well, he let Joe Johnson develop and that one turned out great. I just mentioned how their goal this year, in my opinion, doesn't appear to be winning so I'm lost...

    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Demar should be put on the bench until he earns starters minutes, you and I both know that.
    What I know is he's working hard and he needs good minutes if he is going to develop sooner than later. They can afford to take their lumps with DeMar because whether he's in there or not they're going no where this season.

    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Weems is a variable as he is so cheap now and has flashes of greatness. He should not be starting , but would make good trade fodder, and you better believe BC knows that. Sonny should be more concerned than anyone.
    Again, I don't care about what happens to Weems as long as the Raptors don't get left empty handed. He's not the answer now and I don't think he will be later. He is a good role player. I don't see any greatness in him. He's exciting to watch at times, can play solid D at times and that's it.

  12. #32
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    I agree with you Apollo. I'm just not programmed to accept losing as a bi-product of "being in rebuild", just the competitor in me I guess. But ur right , a la the Joe Johnson example.

  13. #33
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Not sure who is programming me given the MLSE company line doesn't involve any mention of losing a lot of games. I'm just trying to be realistic and speaking from past experiences of Raptors teams gone by. Teams that failed miserably in the standings due to an on going rebuild. This current roster is no better than many of those in terms of what they can accomplish in the standings this season. That's my take on it anyway.

    For example. Last time around the team had a young core in CB4, Mo Pete, Jose Calderon, Joey G and Charlie V. We the fans had unrealistic hopes then too. Both Charlie and Joey turned out to be role players but try going back in time and telling fans that when they got drafted and played out their first season.
    Last edited by Apollo; Tue Dec 7th, 2010 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    That's a good point. So what is the solution to get some wins now? I think both should be on the bench. Weems is trade bait if I've ever seen it.
    quality trolling, multipaul. acknowledge he's made a good point to keep him interested in more dialogue, misdirect from said point with a half-assed argument, then throw in the same point you've been trolling with all thread in a subtle one-liner at the end.

    bravo.

  15. #35
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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    quality trolling, multipaul. acknowledge he's made a good point to keep him interested in more dialogue, misdirect from said point with a half-assed argument, then throw in the same point you've been trolling with all thread in a subtle one-liner at the end.

    bravo.
    your comments are inappropriate, ignorant, and offensive. go away.

  16. #36
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    Neither should get traded, at least until the off season. Making a bold move to upgrade the wings with an overpriced borderline allstar veteran would be the absolute definition of a treadmill move.

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