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Thread: CBA Negotiation Pose Big Risks To Raptors And Will Influence Decision Making

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default CBA Negotiation Pose Big Risks To Raptors And Will Influence Decision Making

    Next week, players who signed contracts this summer will turn trade eligible, bringing in a number of new candidates for teams to chat about
    Many N.B.A. executives expect the trading window to be particularly active and it comes with a twist. The N.B.A.’s next labor agreement will change the league’s current business structure and with every move, teams will have to keep that in mind. Whether those alterations are drastic or superficial, teams are conducting business knowing that change, in some form, is coming.
    One view is that the Heat, Lakers and other luxury-tax teams will not be broken up through the implementation of a hard salary cap and the long-term contracts signed the last few years will not be burdensome under a new deal. In that view, teams can gamble that contracts will be reduced in the next agreement and they will not have to pay them in full.
    The cautious teams believe fresh, long-term contracts will have major ramifications later. If a hard cap is used, teams would have to waive players to wiggle under it. In that case, each team that has already committed two long-term contracts could be exposed under rules that have not even been set yet.
    The Washington Wizards’ owner, Ted Leonsis, said owners would argue for the hard salary cap, a comment that swiftly drew a $100,000 fine from N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern.
    The player’s union vehemently opposes those measures.
    The prospect of the hard cap would be a doomsday scenario for conglomerates like the Heat and Lakers. But it is unlikely the N.B.A. will break up its most popular, and thus most profitable, teams. The league could try to phase in a hard cap over years by reducing the salary cap a portion each season. This would also be an attempt at promoting parity.
    A revamped collective bargaining agreement, though, is guaranteed.
    What is now an $8 million per year salary could be as burdensome on a payroll as what is currently a $13 million contract.
    What it means to us:
    The Toronto Raptors tied up $54 million in long-term contracts to the role players Amir Johnson and Linas Kleiza. Under a new labor agreement, those contracts will either become more manageable or a hindrance toward crafting their future roster.
    If the new collective bargaining agreement produces a lower salary cap after this season, teams planning to have money to spend will wind up with less
    Player movement through trades may also be affected. The Cavaliers and Raptors hold large trade exceptions after losing star players, but may not want to add salary beyond this season. A Western Conference executive predicted that labor unrest would quicken timetables to move players with two years left on their contracts because free agency next summer may not exist in the traditional sense and the 2011 trade deadline could be permanently affected by a lockout.

    “Trading them during this season may prove necessary,” said the executive, who requested anonymity, so he would not meet the same fate as Leonsis.
    Source: "Off The Dribble", NY Times N.B.A. Blog
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Dec 9th, 2010 at 11:30 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
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    I was also pissed when the players' union was pushing for age limit back to 18. Hate that shit.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    i think if the owners push for a hard cap were goingto be in for a long lockout.. with the level of greed in pro sports today i have no doubt it will last as long if not longer then the NHL lockout..

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if kleiza got traded.

    A hard cap needs to be in place and if it takes a lock out so be it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if kleiza got traded.

    A hard cap needs to be in place and if it takes a lock out so be it.
    I agree with a hard cap being set. I can see a lockout taking place as well..
    Speaking of Kleiza (I've been ranting about him today) TRADE TRADE TRADE

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    i think if the owners push for a hard cap were goingto be in for a long lockout.. with the level of greed in pro sports today i have no doubt it will last as long if not longer then the NHL lockout..
    You think? What happens when "Johnny Millionaire" can't pay the mortgage on his $20M home for X number of months? Or if he can't afford to pay for that $500K car he cruises around in? Some owners have claimed they would lose less money by just shutting the doors right now as is in their basketball business BUT that's not where their fortunes come from. All these owners a have big incomes elsewhere to fall back on. The players on the hand are making money hand over fist right but live very expensive lifestyles. I don't see a lockout lasting longer than the NHL lockout. The players can't afford it. See here:

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...re-s-A-Lockout

    This is a good thread to talk lockouts.

    The best thing that could happen to the Raptors long term would be implementation of a hard cap. Finally, parity league-wide.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Dec 9th, 2010 at 05:03 PM.

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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if kleiza got traded.

    A hard cap needs to be in place and if it takes a lock out so be it.
    But to whom. Aren't other gm's aware of these limitations as well? Kleiza is also not making it easy for a playoff type team to take a flyer on him the way he is playing. The best we could get in return is similar salary and a better fit.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Different GM's have different limitations and as such some are willing to take more risk than others... Colangelo seems to be willing to take a lot of risk but I think it probably has something to do with the fact that he doesn't have a contact after this season.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    What ever happened to playing the game because you love it? it's geting ridiculous. I love the hard cap idea. I hate watching the lakers spend 48 million dollars over the salary cap. ti's ridiculous. the luxury tax obviously doesn't sting enough to get people to stop spending over. a hard cap is necessary if this league is ever going to be competitive. If they don't get the cap I predict that in 3-5 years we will have 8 or 9 big 3's in the league and everyone else will suck. That's what the league doesn't want and that's why the hard cap makes sense.

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    I'm asking the following question in the best intentions I sincerely want to understand how the new CBA will impact (if any) our usage of the TPE (I'm not criticizing BC or lamenting him here).

    If truly the "Raptors and Cavaliers" do not want to add salary, then why would BC insist on the precious TPE from the Bosh trade! The way the TPE works is it allows the team to absorb equal salary(ies), cap rules/restrictions notwithstanding.

    So by default if you want to use it you have to take on salary (I can't envision BC not using it; letting the TPE expire would be like tie-ing a noose around his neck). Would this be the Raptors way of saying to other teams who wish to trade for the TPE (in exchange of expiring say in 2012).

    "Guys we really don't want to take on any salary but if you sweeten the deal with say 1st round draft pick(s) maybe we can work something out?"

    I maybe completely off-side here, however, would apprecialte someone with more insight explain this dichotomy.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You think? What happens when "Johnny Millionaire" can't pay the mortgage on his $20M home for X number of months? Or if he can't afford to pay for that $500K car he cruises around in? Some owners have claimed they would lose less money by just shutting the doors right now as is in their basketball business BUT that's not where their fortunes come from. All these owners a have big incomes elsewhere to fall back on. The players on the hand are making money hand over fist right but live very expensive lifestyles. I don't see a lockout lasting longer than the NHL lockout. The players can't afford it. See here:

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...re-s-A-Lockout

    This is a good thread to talk lockouts.

    The best thing that could happen to the Raptors long term would be implementation of a hard cap. Finally, parity league-wide.
    you make some good points but i think the only ones who will truelly suffer through a lockout are the rookies & low income/low marketablity players..

    the stars of the game have bundles of money unless they spent unwisely. & most of the stars will prob. just sign endorsment deals & do TV cameo's/adds to fill there pockets a bit.. the players union stated today or yesterday that they would not accept a hard cap... the players have more to loose long term then they would in the short term... if the owners win a hrd cap players will have there salarys rolled back by close to 40% & i doubt theyll like that at all... especially seeing how the NHL owners & GMs are still forking out major cash to sign free agents(Kovolchuk) even though they claimed the salaries were out of hand b4...

    its just a big game of greed

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Will companies want to pay big bucks to have sports athletes who aren't playing sports selling their product? Maybe I guess... But how much money are players going to get for five seconds in a "Call Of Duty" Ad?

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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    I don't understand the article at all. I get what is supposed to be argued, but most of the facts mentioned don;t add up to me. For instance how is a $8mil contract going to become as burdensome as $13mil? Is the cap really going to lower by 55%? I can only see the $8mil burdensome contract come into play when the team has already committed $60+ mil. Why would the article mention the Raps as an example of irresponsibility in spending $54 mil in long term contracts. Of all the contracts in the league this hardly seems worth a mention. I mean Linus is getting under $5 mil a year and Amir is getting $5mil. Those are both under the league average of $5.35 mil. It seems even more bizarre that the Raptors were mentioned as an example of being non-pragmatic and in rough shape if a hard cap is agreed upon when Colangelo has positioned himself well in terms of financial flexibility going forward. I mean any press is good press I guess, but I find it bizarre that the Raptors are mentioned at all. I find this article not worth the ink used to craft it, and from the NYT no less.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    For instance how is a $8mil contract going to become as burdensome as $13mil? Is the cap really going to lower by 55%? I can only see the $8mil burdensome contract come into play when the team has already committed $60+ mil.
    For an $8M contract in today's system to have the equivalent of a $13M contract in a structure change then the cap would have to drop from $58M to $36M. That's a cap drop of $22M or 38%.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    For an $8M contract in today's system to have the equivalent of a $13M contract in a structure change then the cap would have to drop from $58M to $36M. That's a cap drop of $22M or 38%.
    thats why on top of the hard cap they also want to roll back salaries close to 40%.. so an 8mill contract now would only be 5mill in the new CBA... if the owners get there way of course

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    I'm not so sold on a hard cap, but truly the luxury tax currently does little to deter. So why not make it a $3 for every dollar over the cap. Sure it's a soft cap, but even Jerry Buss would back off paying out an extra $100M for the same product. He was rumoured to be pushing back on the current spend in the summer. Even a $2-1 ratio would be a deterrent.

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    I also think it is ridiculous that Kobe will be making into $30M in a few years. Good/great player or not, that's out of hand when you compare the teams.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    All I know is the greatest pro sports league in North America, the NFL, uses a hard cap. The top players still get paid and every team has a shot a winning. A good GM can rebuild a team in as little as a couple years. Small market teams win championships. Football players don't scoff at going to small markets because there is parity. In the NFL strong management wins championships. In the NBA strong management can only win championships with strong financial backing. The NBA's current setup takes away from the "purity" of the game. You now only see a few players play virtually an entire career on one team. In the NFL it's very common to see a player play his whole career on one team. In the NFL the contracts can be canceled at anytime and all the team is on the hook for is the signing bonus. If the NBA used similar rules a guy like Hedo could have been sent packing with little damage inflicted on the Raptors. The Wiz could have nuked Gil's deal without the PA being able to say a word. Michael Redd would not be collecting over $20M this year to not even be allowed on site.
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri Dec 10th, 2010 at 04:34 PM.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    All I know is they greatest pro sports league in North America, the NFL, uses a hard cap. The top players still get paid and every team has a shot a winning. A good GM can rebuild a team in as little as a couple years. Small market teams win championships. Football players don't scoff at going to small markets because there is parity. In the NFL strong management wins championships. In the NBA strong management can only win championships with strong financial backing. The NBA's current setup takes away from the "purity" of the game. You now only see a few players play virtually an entire career on one team. In the NFL it's very common to see a player play his whole career on one team. In the NFL the contracts can be canceled at anytime and all the team is on the hook for is the signing bonus. If the NBA used similar rules a guy like Hedo could have been sent packing with little damage inflicted on the Raptors. The Wiz could have nuked Gil's deal without the PA being able to say a word. Michael Redd would not be collecting over $20M this year to not even be allowed on site.
    Very interesting points. I like the thoughts.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default TPE = first dibs in contract dumps?

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18146


    "First Dibs: For those of you hoping to see your team trade a large ending contract for a better player, keep an eye on Cleveland and Toronto. Both teams are sitting on $14.5 million Traded Player Exceptions and both teams have made it clear to other teams, that anyone looking to dump a higher priced player, both are open for business.

    This becomes very relevant for teams like Orlando with Vince Carter's pseudo-ending deal or why New Orleans pulled the early trigger on Peja Stojakovic's huge ending deal.

    League sources explained recently that with the Cavs and Raptors both positioning themselves for the players that could be moved at the deadline, they possess the better assets in the TPE than the ending contract of other players, especially for teams looking to liquidate.

    In New Orleans' case moving Peja was about securing their own $9 million Traded Player Exception, an asset sources say is far more valuable than Peja was, mainly because no team in the league viewed Peja as a viable player to improve their situation, he was simply an ending deal.

    In Orlando's case Vince Carter can still play, but sources wondered aloud whether the third-best player made available at the trade deadline was a better improvement than what Vince is in Orlando today. The answer is probably no.

    As the source said, you can basically cross off the top two players made available as salary dumps, as those players are likely headed to Toronto and Cleveland respectively. So you're really talking about the third best asset. So while Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala and maybe Jason Richardson are the top names hitting the market in the next 76 days, the odds all three are moved is slim, meaning while there may be a market for ending contracts, there may not be better players available for teams holding ending contract players mainly because Cleveland and Toronto are going to have first dibs in the cap clearing game."

    Interesting article but the $14.5M TPE in Toronto is now actually $12,237,400 (according to ESPN trade machine). Would not beable to take on AI.

    It is the first time I've read anything US that gives the TPE for either TOR or CLE any value.

    Also with nearly an extra $20M in expiring contracts and 1 extra roster spot, TOR would most likely have the upper hand on flexibility.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Dec 10th, 2010 at 06:21 PM.

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