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Thread: DEN post-game

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Default DEN post-game

    Defense, defense, defense - or lack thereof.

    Tough game for the Raptors to win when you can't stop anyone.

    Negatives:

    Bargnani returned to old form on D and rebounding. The D especially was brutal tonight - he was a human pylon.

    Bayless did not take advantage of the starting spot. Opportunities like these he needs to step up to show he belongs in the conversation of future PG of the Raptors.

    Amir is back to his foul happy self the last two games. That is frustrating considering the impact he has been able to have on games when he can stay on the floor.

    DD - there is nothing new to add that has not been said about his struggles.

    Positives:

    Weems and Kleiza. Hopefully both realize when they don't force a play, they are very effective. When they try to do too much, and especially over-dribble, bad things happen.

    Weems played well with the exception of that rebound. Mid-range jumpers and getting in to the lane was nice to see.

    Kleiza finally got out of his shooting slump. He is not a starter but he is a great player to have off the bench with a very reasonable contract. The calls to trade him are not just, IMO.

    Wright took advantage of his minutes, played solid D, had active hands, a put back, and a trip to the foul line. Didn't try to do too much on O.

    Davis continues to look good long term. He is still in the 'dipping the toe in the water' stage.

    Barbosa continues to be streaky. Great game tonight but could very well put up 7 points tomorrow vs. Detroit. That travel call was BS.

    Overall the effort was there but, despite an opportunity to steal a win, they lost anyways. Such is life for a young team. At least there was no repeat of a forgettable 146-115 loss that gave Mitchell a 31/2 year paid vacation.
    Last edited by Matt52; Fri Dec 10th, 2010 at 10:05 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    bargs was a human pilon in the 4th against amare too.. just got over looked cause he dropped 41pts but amare abused him bad...

    hes always going to be a scoring threat but his defence is soo bad it makes the points he puts up pointless.... even with the 41 he dropped the other night he was still a huge minus in the game...

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    I think that is a little harsh but more than deserving given the last 2 games.

    What I mean by my pylon comment is he goes straight-legged as soon as the offensive player makes his move - whether his own man or on help. He ends up being upright with arms in the air. There is nothing wrong with this as he is a 7-footer but he does it like 1-2 seconds early and the offense just steps around him. There is no reacting on his part or moving his feet. He is a pylon.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    I've supported Bargnani for a while and probably still will because believe he can get better. Patience wears thing after 2 games in a row where he gets raped by the opposing player. it wasn't even funny. we lost because Nene scored 20 points. it's NENE! he's big but he doesn't average anywehre close to that. Play defense, how hard can it be to move your feet and stay in from of your man, especially when you're taller than him. What did Avery Johnson do to get Dirk to do these things? anyone know? they should shoot Triano a text so we can see some improvements. It makes me sick how they abused him and he has no one to blame but himself.

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    bargs was a human pilon in the 4th against amare too.. just got over looked cause he dropped 41pts but amare abused him bad...

    hes always going to be a scoring threat but his defence is soo bad it makes the points he puts up pointless.... even with the 41 he dropped the other night he was still a huge minus in the game...
    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=344922 Today maybe... not yesterday please can somebody get his crap right for once!!!

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    I've supported Bargnani for a while and probably still will because believe he can get better. Patience wears thing after 2 games in a row where he gets raped by the opposing player. it wasn't even funny. we lost because Nene scored 20 points. it's NENE! he's big but he doesn't average anywehre close to that. Play defense, how hard can it be to move your feet and stay in from of your man, especially when you're taller than him. What did Avery Johnson do to get Dirk to do these things? anyone know? they should shoot Triano a text so we can see some improvements. It makes me sick how they abused him and he has no one to blame but himself.
    He was not Nene' who killed us ....Bargnani could have been much better ok but is not playing alone the defense was bad in the first half from all the guys ... Denver is a better team and is better coached, that's it!!!

  7. #7
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Saw this game while hammered, thoughts:

    • Bargnani's post-defense is shit, believe it. Foot work isn't working and lateral movement is non-existent, only C's he can defend are the Gortat-types who go straight up and down.
    • DeRozan blwing that alley oop from Weems. Big time fail. He's athletic as in he's 6'7" lean and can jump, but guy can't use it to his advantage when it counts: in the lane and at the rim.
    • Kleiza. One of those nights, he'll be back to his crappy best next game.
    • Tempo always favored Denver, it was a question of which team was going to go cold first and it was always going to be the Raptors. Denver's ball movement was exquisite, Raps got their points but it was harder, the well was going to run dry and it did.
    • Bayless' drive 'n kick game is solid.
    • Defense is very poor, effort is good but any team that spaces the floor well, has shooters and can run two-man games is unstoppable for us. Our defense gets too stretch and help comes from all angles, impossible to guard unless the other team is just missing shots.
    • Can't remember, but Triano should've called a timeout much sooner in the third.
    • I would've tried Alabi or Davis on Nene, no point putting a poor defender like Bargnani on him. When Nene didn't score, he had hockey assists that led to scores. Should've plugged this whole early, coaching mistake.
    • There's more but I'm off to bed.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Went to the ACC, seeing it live actually wasnt that bad. everybody got quite excited when the Raps cut it down to four. and then they all reminded us that they were the raps. bad turnover cost them the game.

    observations:

    - we badly, badly need a solid, shot blocking center. every denver player was just abusing the lane. drive, post, you name it, they all did it. and it wasnt like it was just one player dominating, all of them and i mean all of them were getting easy drives all night. we need a center that can alter shots, just be a scary beast in the middle. a taller, bulkier Serge Ibaka type player will probably do the trick. let bargnani do the scoring, and let this beast do the rebounding and shotblocking.
    - bargnani might be autistic. he has this super knack in scoring, but he seems to just be retarded on defense. im not joking here, it maybe true. i have an autistic cousin who is super wicked when it comes to computers but all other things, he just doesnt respond. i mean common, lawson got an and1 on bargnani. a barely 6 foot guy against a 7 footer and the 7 footer cant block a 6 footer's shot. thats ridiculous.
    - i really dont know why DeRozan seems to want to get fouled rather than actually making the shot. i think he hung out too much with hedo when that fool was still here. if i had hops like derozan, there wont be any spaces on my wall for all those posters ill make dunking on everybody. im not sure if he's scared of getting hurt or scared of getting blocked.
    - Amir is a workhorse. what he lacks in basketball iq, he makes up for with pure hustle and determination. when you see this guy play live, its just uncanny as to how busy he is on the court. always defending, always following up shots, always trying to go to the spot where the ball is going to land. seriously, if he was on a contending team, he'd make that team so good. i see it now, the value of Amir.
    - barbosa can score. however, he needs to be re-introduced to his teammates. even to this point i dont think he knows anybody on the team. as soon as he gets the ball, its him and the ring. once you pass it to him, dont expect to ever get it back.
    - besides a center, we need a wing who can finish games. somebody who will have the ball in his hands come crunch time. someone who will know what to do at the exact moment. not get nervous, anxious or crazy when the ball is in his hands in the dying seconds.

    other than that, i think the raps will fare well this season.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Sat Dec 11th, 2010 at 12:33 AM.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Wow, horrid defense all around. You can take your pick who to blame. Everyone sucked on D.

    Nice bounce back by Kleiza and Weems, at least offensively. Is Kleiza's patented move a dribble off the foot or a 4 step travel?

    This game highlights that we are very vulnerable at pg. Bayless is not even close to being a starter. It seems that the reality is that both Barbosa and Bayless are really SGs. If Bayless is to be a starting PG he has a lot of work to do. Good thing he is young.

    Hopefully lessons were learned. Onward and upward.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    Wow, horrid defense all around. You can take your pick who to blame. Everyone sucked on D.

    Nice bounce back by Kleiza and Weems, at least offensively. Is Kleiza's patented move a dribble off the foot or a 4 step travel?

    This game highlights that we are very vulnerable at pg. Bayless is not even close to being a starter. It seems that the reality is that both Barbosa and Bayless are really SGs. If Bayless is to be a starting PG he has a lot of work to do. Good thing he is young.

    Hopefully lessons were learned. Onward and upward.
    agree. defense was atrocious. i love derozan's head shake everytime they get killed on D. if he did actually defend instead of shaking his head, then i think he'd get better results.

    i think the thing with the raps is they have a lot of good one on one players who can score. so having a really good PG they can do without. they got really good PGs in Jose and Bayless and Barbo as the 3rd. No need to invest more on that spot. a 5 and a 3 crunch-time player are what we badly need IMO.

  11. #11
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    this why i dont like barbosa...he hogs the ball.. bargnani was left open numerous times

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote footie wrote: View Post
    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=344922 Today maybe... not yesterday please can somebody get his crap right for once!!!
    im not sure what your point was by adding that link but if u were to watch the game against the knicks u would have seen that bargs wasnt realy defending amare until the 4th Q at wich point amare went off.... he had a monster 4th & only a blind man wouldnt have seen who was guarding him.... i bet the guy who wrote that article only caught the highlights on TSN

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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    agree. defense was atrocious. i love derozan's head shake everytime they get killed on D. if he did actually defend instead of shaking his head, then i think he'd get better results.

    i think the thing with the raps is they have a lot of good one on one players who can score. so having a really good PG they can do without. they got really good PGs in Jose and Bayless and Barbo as the 3rd. No need to invest more on that spot. a 5 and a 3 crunch-time player are what we badly need IMO.
    I agree that the Raps have a lot of good one on on players, but in my opinion, the offense didn't seem to have any flow. I think it would have been a different game (i mean better) with Calderon. Without Calderon we won't be competitive in many games. However, Calderon isn't a long term answer. I think to make this a contender for the future, we need a serious upgrade at the PG. This can happen through the next draft or a trade this summer or whatever. Nothing immediate needs to happen since we're going nowhere this year. And shit, what position don't we need a serious upgrade? I'll certainly take a crunch time SF too!
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    Quote South_Side_Jane wrote: View Post
    this why i dont like barbosa...he hogs the ball.. bargnani was left open numerous times
    Agreed. However I'm pretty sure this is why coaches have tried on all accounts to avoid using him at the PG and leaving him at the SG as undersized as he is. The court vision just isn't there, but his scoring ability sure is.

    My thoughts:
    - Perhaps just an off-game and nothing we can judge from...But maybe this is a small sign of why two teams have passed on Bayless. Solid backup but questionable consistency as a starter (and getting significant minutes). Will be interesting to see how he develops and handles the next couple of games if Calderon stays out.
    - The killer/aggresive mentality is simply missing from DeRozan. This is keeping him from being effective/consistent. Could be the losing/lack of confidence at this point. That, and the fact that he's missing a reliable jumper.
    - What's amazing is that Amir knows the weakness in his game is based on his foul prone tendencies; yet at this stage of his career he has yet to show any real progress towards fixing it. However, we've all seen the potential that awaits him if he does.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Saw this game while hammered, thoughts:

    • Bargnani's post-defense is shit, believe it. Foot work isn't working and lateral movement is non-existent, only C's he can defend are the Gortat-types who go straight up and down.
    • DeRozan blwing that alley oop from Weems. Big time fail. He's athletic as in he's 6'7" lean and can jump, but guy can't use it to his advantage when it counts: in the lane and at the rim.
    • Kleiza. One of those nights, he'll be back to his crappy best next game.
    • Tempo always favored Denver, it was a question of which team was going to go cold first and it was always going to be the Raptors. Denver's ball movement was exquisite, Raps got their points but it was harder, the well was going to run dry and it did.

    • Bayless' drive 'n kick game is solid.
    • Defense is very poor, effort is good but any team that spaces the floor well, has shooters and can run two-man games is unstoppable for us. Our defense gets too stretch and help comes from all angles, impossible to guard unless the other team is just missing shots.
    • Can't remember, but Triano should've called a timeout much sooner in the third.
    • I would've tried Alabi or Davis on Nene, no point putting a poor defender like Bargnani on him. When Nene didn't score, he had hockey assists that led to scores. Should've plugged this whole early, coaching mistake.
    • There's more but I'm off to bed.
    Bayless couldn't do shit. He took a bunch of shots and missed almost all of them and his assists are far lower then Jose. We need Jose back or this team is going to keep struggling. I don't think I've ever seen ball movement even close to that bad in Jose's starts.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sat Dec 11th, 2010 at 05:04 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    I don't know why the coaching staff hasn't been held accountable for this. It's very frustrating to watch the raptors get beat on the same play time and time again!!

    I was very disappointed with Jerryd Bayless, a player whom I have the utmost hope for becoming our future point guard (please don't disappoint me).

    One of Sonny or Demar needs to go and we need someone who is a legit shooter who can make a wide open shot! Trade for O.J. mayo, he can handle the ball, and is a much better shooter than both weems and derozan. We can give them Calderon in the deal or Julian Wright!

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    im not sure what your point was by adding that link but if u were to watch the game against the knicks u would have seen that bargs wasnt realy defending amare until the 4th Q at wich point amare went off.... he had a monster 4th & only a blind man wouldnt have seen who was guarding him.... i bet the guy who wrote that article only caught the highlights on TSN
    Ok read it again you must have pretty bad at school...you don't get it right?

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