The myopia of Toronto Raptor fans- Starting 5 grades compared to the NBA/ Projection

[Legalize-It]

We've been through this before.

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...ll=1#post50764

and your point ?

if someone is such a great gm, they wouldnt have traded away a future 2 time mvp and 1st ballot HOF....for nothing

itz only cuz jerry colangelo is a billionaire (bc's dad) that bc was able to beg daddy to spend some more money to fix his mistake

[JoePanini]

and your point ?

if someone is such a great gm, they wouldnt have traded away a future 2 time mvp and 1st ballot HOF....for nothing

itz only cuz jerry colangelo is a billionaire (bc's dad) that bc was able to beg daddy to spend some more money to fix his mistake

Nash was in no way expected to be an MVP contender, at the time. Plus his contract was pretty resonable considering what he has done and what his real value is.

[mcHAPPY]

There is no doubt a rebuild going on. They take time. SEA/OKC took 5 years to get back to the playoffs with numerous lottery picks that turned out to be 2 of the brightest future stars in the game today (Durant and Westbrook).

Furthermore, while the Raptors rebuild is on going they are only 3 1/2 games out of the playoffs with 52 games to go. Personally I don't think they will make them but that is another thread.

The issue is there have been 2 consecutive awful games, awful in all the worst ways as well (turnovers, missed free throws, poor ball movement). These types of threads always show up when that happens.

The Raptors do not have bonafide future stars at this point - although one may still surprise. Rather the team is a collection of bench and/or role players on manageable contracts (minus Calderon and arguably Johnson). Great teams need great role players - the Raptors have that, they need 1 or 2 star NBA talents to compliment what is already in place. Ideally the Raptors get a star or two over the next 2 drafts or trade for a player that breaks out in Toronto. If they don't it is going to be a long few seasons

So with that said, the Raptors need to continue what they are doing: collecting young players with upside, play hard, and hope some of those young players become star players. Will all the players become awesome because they are young? Absolutely not - those are the ones you hope become role/bench players and if that does not happen you trade or do not re-sign. Just because a young player does not become a star does not make them worthless.

As of now, the Raptors do not have a single player who screams SUPERSTAR. Get over it, few teams have them and usually overpay players they place too much value on (Gay, AI, Brand). At least the Raptors are not in that situation (I suppose this will start a Bargnani contract discussion - fwiw I think his contract is reasonable).

With 7/8 weeks to the trade deadline and only 30 regular season games away from the efforts of building around Bosh, patience should be practiced - as difficult as that can be. Trades can come out of nowhere (see Jarrett Jack trade).

[Legalize-It]

Nash was in no way expected to be an MVP contender, at the time. Plus his contract was pretty resonable considering what he has done and what his real value is.

not arguing if his contract was reasonable...

pointing out to some of you who dont know the history, that Bryan Colangelo TRADED steve nash to dallas before he was a back to back mvp winner.

[mcHAPPY]

and your point ?

if someone is such a great gm, they wouldnt have traded away a future 2 time mvp and 1st ballot HOF....for nothing

itz only cuz jerry colangelo is a billionaire (bc's dad) that bc was able to beg daddy to spend some more money to fix his mistake

You obviously did not click the link. That's cool. A second year player behind Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson who did not become a really good player until 4 seasons later but netted a first round draft pick that turned in to Shawn Marion and then was re-signed to a great contract ($10M a season) a few years later when a PG was needed and became a 2-time MVP is hardly a blunder by BC.

I hope the holidays have treated you well.

[JoePanini]

not arguing if his contract was reasonable...

pointing out to some of you who dont know the history, that Bryan Colangelo TRADED steve nash to dallas before he was a back to back mvp winner.

What? Oh and just to add to that I would like to say that LeBron is 6'8. Your turn, another pointless and obvious fact.

[smushmush]

Smush will blowing up this team land three All-stars? Are there 3 All-stars in the drafts of 2011-2012? The best chance the raptors have is making this group a playoff team, then trying to trade/sign for some all-stars. Do you think the Raptors players have reached their ceiling? I don't think so, I want them to reach their potential in a Raptors uniform.

Edit: Unless your signing (Miami), trading for (LA, Boston) All-stars you don't blow up this team.

3 All-Stars? Lol. That is really funny, the 3 players are only nominated but will never be selected. Besides, the All-Star games and selection is a popularity contest(why do you think guys like Paul Millsap are left off the All-star nominations?). Talk to me when any of these guys are in the first, second or third All-NBA or specifically All-NBA defensive team or the African-Americans on this team play for the United States basketball team(this should be easy right? Guys like Eric Gordon and Kevin Love(from the Clippers and Timberwolves - laughing stocks of the NBA lol) have already played for the United States basketball team).

[JoePanini]

c o m p e t i n g f o r a r i n g ..

if i type like that, does it make it easier for you ?

It's still pretty early, for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in ages...

[Legalize-It]

It's still pretty early, for a team that hasn't won a playoff series in ages...

lets let that trend of not winning continue even longer !

[Legalize-It]

You obviously did not click the link. That's cool. A second year player behind Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson who did not become a really good player until 4 seasons later but netted a first round draft pick that turned in to Shawn Marion and then was re-signed to a great contract ($10M a season) a few years later when a PG was needed and became a 2-time MVP is hardly a blunder by BC.

I hope the holidays have treated you well.

i hope you invest in learning how to use periods.

[mcHAPPY]

i hope you invest in learning how to use periods.

That is good advice. A little off topic and totally irrelevant but good advice nonetheless.

Happy Holidays.

[Thom]

Numbers don't mean anything. Have you compared Bargs' minutes to his numbers from year to year? Have you noticed any shooting consistency or consistent defensive effort? Have you noticed DeRozan can't go to his left, has a weak handle and is a shooting guard that can neither guard nor shoot?

This isn't a clueless fan of basketball, he's a realist who watches other teams and is tired of hearing about how much ceiling and potential our players have.

I completely agree numbers don't mean everything, but I simply named off some areas that some players have been improving their games in and I think that shouldn't be discredited. Obviously there is tons of room for all of our players to grow, but I have seen consistent improvement in Bargnani's offensive game from year to year. Of course he NEEDS to improve his help defense and awareness. I think DeMar has been improving as well in certain areas like getting to the line and hitting open jumpers, but yeah, he has a long way to go with his handle, defense, decision making, passing, etc. I could go on. My point is there are certain players on this team who are working to improve their games and that shouldn't be discredited.

As far as a ceiling for these players, not once did I say they are going to be all-stars. Never. I'm not one of those Raptors fans who think this team is the shit and never have I bought into the Young Gunz baloney, but for some reason three different people have replied to me like I think this group of players will somehow be a great team someday. Change needs to come. Barg's would be a great third option with a great true center. Doubt he'll be an all-star. Unless DeRozan becomes a good on-ball defender he'll never have a chance to start on a good team. Johnson is definitely developing into a great big man to have coming off the bench. Weems I have little to no faith in. Davis I think will someday be a great starter in this league and if I HAD to put money on one player becoming an all-star on this team it would be him.

Finally, the poster I replied to was blatantly being a smartass to another poster who at least explained what his thinking was, regardless of right or wrong. It's kind of sad to see someone just be a prick like that instead of maybe trying to show the other side of the story and maybe give some good insight. Someone who would flat out deny any improvement at all for some of these players is not a realist, but hey, I guess were all entitled to our opinions no matter how nonsensical they may seem.

[Gman]

so this is getting very boring, but just a quick question:

you said bargs was better than kg offensively, and asked me to cite something to prove you wrong...

i cited stats, and you called me an a**hat (w/e that is), because what you meant was bargs is better than kg aesthetically...

so you like the way bargs' offense looks compared to kg, which i think we will both agree that aesthetics are opinion ? right ?

a fundamental player mite think tim duncan's offense is aesthetically better looking...

so what could i have possibly cited in this situation ?

to me, this is like askng someone what their favorite color is... and they say red... and then you say NO, BLUE, BLUE is better !! prove me wrong !! cite something to prove me wrong...

Boring is a good word for this. As I said in my last post because Garnett has become king hi douche since he won the championship I have biases against him. And here is the difference for me...I think Bargnani is a more talented offensive player but I think KG is a better offensive player. In pure fundamental workhorse offense KG is better, but when it comes to doing something special and unique with the ball that's what Bargnani offers.

And as I said I would rather have the ball in Bargs hands with two seconds left.

And let's stay on point are we arguing about Bargs and KG or on how we should argue about them, because that's kind of how women argue and seriously I have enough of that at home, so...

[Gman]

this has nothing to do with the raps so i'll make this quick...

you dont have to smoke weed to benefit from it being legalized.

if it was legalized, we could eliminate a major source of income for drug dealers and gangs, which would reduce their ability to engage in other criminal acts.

you would have less innocent civilians being killed because of drug wars.

less of our brothers and sisters would be put in jail just for getting high..

terminally ill people with very painful symptoms would have an option if they wanted to smoke a spliff instead of buying prescription medication which usually have severe side effects...

and finally, just like liquor and tobacco which is a huge source of income for the government, we could tax it, and use that money to build more community centres, schools, basketball courts, parks, and other places where people of all ages could go to further their skills and talents and have fun...

if you think that by criminalizing it, you are preventing people from smoking, then look around cuz it's really easy to get anyway...

just a thought, i could be wrong...

That sounds like post rationalized posing but hey whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Gman]

it's about time i came clean with y'all... i've been a poser this whole time... i pains me to admit it, but i can no longer keep living this lie..

i hate ketchup.

love me some ganj though

I knew it!!!! Now you should give us all a post about the societal benefits of Ketchup and how eventually world peace will be predicated on it. (but just a hint, try not to sound pretentious like Legalize It did)