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Thread: The myopia of Toronto Raptor fans- Starting 5 grades compared to the NBA/ Projection

  1. #21
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    I"m not trying to hate on the Raptor players because its not their fault. It's just funny to see how the fans have bought in what Colangelo sold. You can market it all you want, but if it ain't gold, it ain't gold, so don't try to sell to us how they have the pieces in place and these guys are legit NBA starters. They are role players and nothing more.

  2. #22
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    The good thing to all this is that if they fire BC and blow up this team, they can be contenders in a few years with a couple of good drafts and by then Boston, LA, Spurs, and maybe even Miami would have fallen off due to age. But this "retooling" nonsense people are buying into will only result in low lottery picks and virtually no chance of drafting a superstar

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie Thom's Avatar
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    lol consistent improvement ? right
    Here is an example of a clueless fan of basketball.

    Have you checked Barnani's numbers from year to year? Have you seen him handle double teams this year? Have you noticed he's on a great contract for a third option player? Have you noticed Amir isn't getting into foul trouble as much? Have you noticed DeRozan getting to the line more frequently and developing a jumper? Even Calderon is returning to his former self. He could start for a lot of teams. His defense is suspect, but he's improved playing the passing lanes and even Rose has trouble containing most point guards.

    You should be laughing at yourself.

  4. #24
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    nothing will change as long as people think derozan, amir, davis, bargs, and all the other young players on the raps are in the same class with the same high ceiliing as a:

    rudy gay
    mayo
    m gasol
    e gordon
    blake griffin
    steph curry
    john wall
    derrick rose
    noah
    horford
    tyreke evans
    kevin love
    durant
    westbrook
    brook lopez
    rondo
    kevin love
    and many others

    under bc's watch, not one player has developped into anything consistent...

    the players listed above are just as young as the raps young players, but clearly they are all way better.

    but hey we can all remember bc's EOY and the three playoff games we have won since 2006
    Quote Madman wrote: View Post
    Andrea Bargnani
    Demar Derozan
    Ed Davis

    Arguably Amir Johnson and Sonny Weems



    who else has he aquired that you expect to develop, and which of those guys do you see as have reached as good as they will become
    you think those 3 have developped into a consistent player ?

    wow... ed davis has barely played and you think he has developped ?

    why do you put ed davis on that list but not alibi ??

    your last sentence i couldnt understand

  5. #25
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    Quote Thom wrote: View Post
    Here is an example of a clueless fan of basketball.

    Have you checked Barnani's numbers from year to year? Have you seen him handle double teams this year? Have you noticed he's on a great contract for a third option player? Have you noticed Amir isn't getting into foul trouble as much? Have you noticed DeRozan getting to the line more frequently and developing a jumper? Even Calderon is returning to his former self. He could start for a lot of teams. His defense is suspect, but he's improved playing the passing lanes and even Rose has trouble containing most point guards.

    You should be laughing at yourself.
    i think you need to look up the definition of the word consistent...

    being consistent means putting in the effort every nite... can you really say we have even ONE raptor that you can count on to play hard every nite ? (other than reggie)

    and when bargs is taking 17 shots a game, i dont think his stats reflect those of a third option player...

    no one is arguing the improvement and flashes some players have given us, but that has nothing to do with being consistent...

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie Madman's Avatar
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    you think those 3 have developped into a consistent player ?

    wow... ed davis has barely played and you think he has developped ?

    why do you put ed davis on that list but not alibi ??

    your last sentence i couldnt understand
    no thats exactly my point, none of those players have developed into a consistent player YET. my last sentence i meant out of the players that i have listed, which do you think has reached his potential because you are saying colangelo hasnt developed anyone, however all the players i listed are young players he has brought in which in my opinion still have havent and arent close to reaching their potential

  7. #27
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    What people fail to understand is that it's impossible to bring your A game every single night as an athlete. For the most part if a player like Andrea and Derozan have a great game they might end up carrying the team for one night but when they aren't on their "A" game, they aren't very effective. If for example Garnett isn't having a good shooting night, he might end up with 15 pts but will still impact the game on defense and do other things to win the game. The better the player, the more capable they are even when they are having a bad game. That's what makes a true number 1 option, his "B" game is capable of carrying a team. It seems kinda obvious but I find it funny when watching the Raptor games on tv and Jack Armstrong is preaching that Andrea should be more consistent. You can't ask Andrea to have an "A" game every night, it's not possible and not fair to him or anyone else in the league.

  8. #28
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    Quote ibzilla wrote: View Post
    What people fail to understand is that it's impossible to bring your A game every single night as an athlete. For the most part if a player like Andrea and Derozan have a great game they might end up carrying the team for one night but when they aren't on their "A" game, they aren't very effective. If for example Garnett isn't having a good shooting night, he might end up with 15 pts but will still impact the game on defense and do other things to win the game. The better the player, the more capable they are even when they are having a bad game. That's what makes a true number 1 option, his "B" game is capable of carrying a team. It seems kinda obvious but I find it funny when watching the Raptor games on tv and Jack Armstrong is preaching that Andrea should be more consistent. You can't ask Andrea to have an "A" game every night, it's not possible and not fair to him or anyone else in the league.
    yea but we're not asking anyone to score 30 pts a nite... we're asking for CONSISTENT effort. and it seems every nite we dont know what to expect from the players...

    how many games has bargs been invisible on the defensive glass ?

    look at perkins, scola, milsap, ibaka, (all late 1st round or 2nd round picks) have developed and know their role.

    the reason why reggie evans is so liked by raps fans is because they know, this guy is gona play hard every second he is on the court.

    yes we have flashes from weems, moon, graham, etc, but not one of the young players in the last 4 years has played hard the majority of the time they have played.

    if you made it to the nba, it pretty much means you have the talent to hit a jump shot, or get a rebound (depending on position)... the development is being able to play smart, and bring the effort in the majority of the games...
    Last edited by Legalize-It; Sun Dec 26th, 2010 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote ibzilla wrote: View Post
    What people fail to understand is that it's impossible to bring your A game every single night as an athlete. For the most part if a player like Andrea and Derozan have a great game they might end up carrying the team for one night but when they aren't on their "A" game, they aren't very effective. If for example Garnett isn't having a good shooting night, he might end up with 15 pts but will still impact the game on defense and do other things to win the game. The better the player, the more capable they are even when they are having a bad game. That's what makes a true number 1 option, his "B" game is capable of carrying a team. It seems kinda obvious but I find it funny when watching the Raptor games on tv and Jack Armstrong is preaching that Andrea should be more consistent. You can't ask Andrea to have an "A" game every night, it's not possible and not fair to him or anyone else in the league.
    What you fail to realize is that KG is only averaging 15.6 points a game so if he's off offensively he's probably scoring 8 points a game not 15. And Andrea is offensively way more talented than KG. No question. I said it here and I'll say it again. Defensively KG is a monster of epic proportions who has a solid offensive game.

    There is nothing that you wrote that was optimistic. Offensively Bargnani is an incredibly special player who for his position can do things that very few other big men can do. So unless you at the very least give credit where credit is due you can't even be considered a realist.

    I'd take some of the other points down but it would just be same BS different day. It's a reflection on your maturity that you expect the level of success that you do.

  10. #30
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    Quote gman wrote: View Post
    what you fail to realize is that kg is only averaging 15.6 points a game so if he's off offensively he's probably scoring 8 points a game not 15. and andrea is offensively way more talented than kg. no question. I said it here and i'll say it again. Defensively kg is a monster of epic proportions who has a solid offensive game.

    There is nothing that you wrote that was optimistic. Offensively bargnani is an incredibly special player who for his position can do things that very few other big men can do. So unless you at the very least give credit where credit is due you can't even be considered a realist.

    I'd take some of the other points down but it would just be same bs different day. It's a reflection on your maturity that you expect the level of success that you do.
    d e l u s i o n a l

  11. #31
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    d e l u s i o n a l
    Did you write this in crayon before you typed it? KG has a great mid range jumper. Solid post moves and soft hands for a big man. He's made his money with his defence because his intensity is off the charts.

    Anyway once you've pulled your head out of your latest bong hit there Legalize It...why don't you try to cite something that proves me wrong.

  12. #32
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    Legalize-it is back. Fun.

  13. #33
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    Quote Gman wrote: View Post
    Did you write this in crayon before you typed it? KG has a great mid range jumper. Solid post moves and soft hands for a big man. He's made his money with his defence because his intensity is off the charts.

    Anyway once you've pulled your head out of your latest bong hit there Legalize It...why don't you try to cite something that proves me wrong.
    k how bout the 9 straight seasons of 20+ppg ? is that enough no ?

    how bout a career field goal percentage of 49.8% taking 16 shots a game and that's over 16 seasons ?

    still not enough ? how bout the 4.2 assists he has averaged over his career ?

    how bout averaging over 5 free throw attempts per game for 8 years ?

    oh wait, i forgot he doesnt shoot three's... yea bargs is way better offensively.

  14. #34
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    the only things andrea has over KG are 3 point shooting and more ways to put the ball in the basket. that doesn't mean he's more talented offensively. there's 4 other players on the team on offense, and KG has always been one of the best bigs in the league when in comes to being a part of the offense. there's a reason why he's in the discussion of best power forward of all time.

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    Quote nubreed000 wrote: View Post
    the only things andrea has over KG are 3 point shooting and more ways to put the ball in the basket. that doesn't mean he's more talented offensively. there's 4 other players on the team on offense, and KG has always been one of the best bigs in the league when in comes to being a part of the offense. there's a reason why he's in the discussion of best power forward of all time.
    kg's post moves are better than barg's. his passing and finding the open man when he is being double teamed is better than bargs, his clutch shooting from mid range is better than bargs, he sets better screens than bargs...

  16. #36
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    k how bout the 9 straight seasons of 20+ppg ? is that enough no ?

    how bout a career field goal percentage of 49.8% taking 16 shots a game and that's over 16 seasons ?

    still not enough ? how bout the 4.2 assists he has averaged over his career ?

    how bout averaging over 5 free throw attempts per game for 8 years ?

    oh wait, i forgot he doesnt shoot three's... yea bargs is way better offensively.
    Hey you forgot the MVP season

    how about being top 5 MVP vote getter almost every season from 2000-2005

    and how about carrying a team with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell as 2nd and third options to the conference finals and winning 50 games year after year with Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson as go to guys lol

    with the scrubs Garnett was playing with, he would kill to play with Calderon and Hedo lol

  17. #37
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    Quote ibzilla wrote: View Post
    Hey you forgot the MVP season

    how about being top 5 MVP vote getter almost every season from 2000-2005

    and how about carrying a team with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell as 2nd and third options to the conference finals and winning 50 games year after year with Wally Szcerbiak and Troy Hudson as go to guys lol

    with the scrubs Garnett was playing with, he would kill to play with Calderon and Hedo lol
    haha yea... i dont think people like gman realize you can contribute to the offense without touching the ball..

    watch a celtics game, and see how many open looks the wings get b/c of a good screen set by kg...

    when was the last time bargs set a screen for anyone ?

  18. #38
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    Quote Gman wrote: View Post
    What you fail to realize is that KG is only averaging 15.6 points a game so if he's off offensively he's probably scoring 8 points a game not 15. And Andrea is offensively way more talented than KG. No question. I said it here and I'll say it again. Defensively KG is a monster of epic proportions who has a solid offensive game.

    There is nothing that you wrote that was optimistic. Offensively Bargnani is an incredibly special player who for his position can do things that very few other big men can do. So unless you at the very least give credit where credit is due you can't even be considered a realist.

    I'd take some of the other points down but it would just be same BS different day. It's a reflection on your maturity that you expect the level of success that you do.
    First off, I was referring to the KG of old, not the old KG that we are seeing today. He could average 30 a game if he wanted to back in the day. Let me ask you something, Jamal Crawford is going to be a gifted scorer and averaged 20 ppg coming off the bench. Do you really believe he would be a great fit for any team as a starter. I'm sure he can average 25 ppg given the minutes but would you hand the offense to Jamal? If your answer is no (which 99% of gms and coaches would say) I would point you to examine Andrea's game compared to his. Ok, what about Antoine Walker, Ben Gordon and the list goes on. The NBA has been littered with scorers and eventually the bench is where they always end up. No one was more optimistic about Andrea's career than me when he exploded after Triano took over. I thought he could be a perennial all star soon. But after watching him play for 2 seasons his defense hasn't improved at all and unfortunately if you can't defend your position, your role is to come off the bench and score (exception is Phoenix). I'm not asking Andrea to be KG on defense, just AVERAGE defense and grab 8 rebounds a game and I would deem him a starter. But playing horrible help defense, pick and roll defense, boxing out, and averaging 0.7 blocks per game as a 7 footer is downright embarrassing. I give him credit for being a talented offensive player but he's too one dimensional

  19. #39
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    I am an optimist but a realist as well. I hope for the best but I can't ignore what's happening. I'm facing the truth about this team which a lot of Raptor fans need to do as well. The best this squad can do is an 8th seed only to be crushed by Miami or Boston (Anyone who thinks we have a chance against those two are delusional as Legalize-It says). What happens next is we lose a lottery pick and select in the 15-19 range. It's possible to draft a good player in that range but the odds are clearly against you. What is best for this team is to play the young guys, see what you have, lose out, end up in the top 5 range and have a better chance at a star and we can begin to start winning the right way

  20. #40
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    Listen, I'm not bashing the team because they are losing. If I was a Clipper fan or Wolves fan I would be extremely optimistic about the future even if the team wins 5 games all year. Look at Seattle/Oklahoma, those fans dealt with the losing because they had Durant and Westbrook. I would be ok and optimistic if there was anything to be optimistic about. I'm facing reality that we don't have a Blake Griffin, Tyreke, Stephen Curry and everyone should too. Believe me, when you have a franchise player, you know right away for the most part (always exception). When John Wall steps on the court, you know he will be a good player from day 1, you don't need 6 years to find that out as with the case for the current young Raptor players

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