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Thread: Players 23 and under - Rank DD, Amir, and Bayless

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    Default Players 23 and under - Rank DD, Amir, and Bayless

    Where do you rank Demar, Amir, and Bayless among the following players aged 23 and under ?

    d rose - 22
    curry - 22
    gordon - 22
    griffin - 21
    m conley - 23
    mayo - 23
    jennings - 21
    love - 22
    w chandler - 23
    b lopez - 22
    westbrook - 22
    durant - 22
    ibaka - 21
    tyreke evans - 21
    j wall - 20

    derozan - 22
    bayless - 22
    amir johnson - 23

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    So your job was to come on here and be a troll? This thread isn't going to go anywhere and it's going to be downhill very fast. All you're doing is inciting the true Raptors fans on here. If there are any mods on here, I would encourage them to lock it before it gets out of hand.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    So your job was to come on here and be a troll? This thread isn't going to go anywhere and it's going to be downhill very fast. All you're doing is inciting the true Raptors fans on here. If there are any mods on here, I would encourage them to lock it before it gets out of hand.
    haha why do you have such a low opinion of DD, amir, and bayless ?

    what they cant compete with these players even though they are the same age ?

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    haha why do you have such a low opinion of DD, amir, and bayless ?

    what they cant compete with these players even though they are the same age ?
    I don't have a low opinion of Derozan, Amir and Bayless. The reality is that out of the 3 guys, i think Bayless has the potential to become the best out of the group. Derozan in my opinion, won't become a superstar. He'll be a good player though. Amir will be a solid big off of the bench, much like a Jerome Williams. The guys you listed above, for the majority were top-5 picks in their respective drafts. There's a reason why they were drafted where they were - because they have more talent.

    My question now is... what's your point in making this thread?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Ok I will bite.

    If we are comparing players, we also have to compare positions in mind.

    Demar Derozan has potential to be better then OJ Mayo, because it seems to me that as of right now OJ Mayo has hit some wall in his development. If Demar wants to be successful in the league he has to work his butt in the gym to be bigger, work on his ball handling skills, and especially his shot.

    Bayless can be better then Mike Connely and I believe he can reach that level.

    I would put Johnson ahead of Ibeka at this stage since I haven't seen much of Ibeka but I assume he doesn't have the quickness, defence and doesnt shoot the ball as good as Johnson who currently is improving on all those aspects of his game.

    Johnson is the closest thing to a finished product and therefore he won't be a star in this league. As for Demar and Bayless if they continue to improve and get the minutes (working through their problems) by mid season of next year we will know exactly what we have in them.

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    I will "bite" when you put groups of 3 together that are under 23 and from the same team...
    i.e. - Mayo, Conley, Thabeet
    Or a whole starting 5 - Bayless, Derozan, Wright, Davis, Johnson (Alabi)
    i.e. - Conley, Vasquez, Mayo, Arthur, Thabeet

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Ok I will bite.

    If we are comparing players, we also have to compare positions in mind.

    Demar Derozan has potential to be better then OJ Mayo, because it seems to me that as of right now OJ Mayo has hit some wall in his development. If Demar wants to be successful in the league he has to work his butt in the gym to be bigger, work on his ball handling skills, and especially his shot.

    Bayless can be better then Mike Connely and I believe he can reach that level.

    I would put Johnson ahead of Ibeka at this stage since I haven't seen much of Ibeka but I assume he doesn't have the quickness, defence and doesnt shoot the ball as good as Johnson who currently is improving on all those aspects of his game.

    Johnson is the closest thing to a finished product and therefore he won't be a star in this league. As for Demar and Bayless if they continue to improve and get the minutes (working through their problems) by mid season of next year we will know exactly what we have in them.
    you make a lot of really good points. i really have to agree with you...

    bayless definitely has shown signs of really being a great player.

    amir is solid... reliable. showing improvement on both sides of the court.

    DD - dunks are unreal... i really think he has the work ethic to improve the shot and handles... he's also got to get a bit bigger...

    i kind of wish all 3 of these players would play together more, even if it means not starting, just cuz it looks like they will become the core of the future.

    what do you think ?

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    I definitely think these three players can improve drastically. DeRozan really needs to work on his jumper, and needs to focus more on offense and defense. Many times it was like he wasn't on the floor. But he's young, and extremely athletic so there is a lot of room for improvement. It's the same thing with Bayless and Johnson, both also young and athletic. They all need to mature, and play smarter and harder, which also goes for all the team members.
    But at the moment, and very probably for the rest of their career, they will only be at the bottom of this group, or maybe reach near the middle. There are a lot of potential all-stars in that group.

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    Quote BC Boy wrote: View Post
    I will "bite" when you put groups of 3 together that are under 23 and from the same team...
    i.e. - Mayo, Conley, Thabeet
    Or a whole starting 5 - Bayless, Derozan, Wright, Davis, Johnson (Alabi)
    i.e. - Conley, Vasquez, Mayo, Arthur, Thabeet
    but they already have a legit C in gasol and a legit SF in Rudy

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    Quote Legalize-It wrote: View Post
    but they already have a legit C in gasol and a legit SF in Rudy
    Yeah, but you are looking at players under 23... which neither of those guys are.

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    Quote BC Boy wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but you are looking at players under 23... which neither of those guys are.
    exactly...

    thabeet and young arent given the same oppurtunities derozan and amir are getting, cuz the griz already have a young C, and a young SF, which i mentioned 3 posts ago...

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I was admiring the trove of young talent that the Raptors have, and the more I looked, the less impressed I was by it. Don't get me, DD, Bayless and even Davis have potential, but the Raps will have to trade a bunch of young talent for one solid star. No way we get a Cornerstone with a No. 10-14 draft pick. Weems, Barbosa, Reggie and some draft picks/TPE will net us someone decent to put beside Bargs and Jose/JBay. But our young guys don't quite match up with the other Youth Movements throughout the league, in my opinion.

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    Davis on the other hand I see surpassing Amir by his third year as well as having a higher ceiling then Ibaka.

    I would be happy if Davis averages 15 points per game and 10 rebounds, if that is the highest level he can get too.

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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Davis on the other hand I see surpassing Amir by his third year as well as having a higher ceiling then Ibaka.

    I would be happy if Davis averages 15 points per game and 10 rebounds, if that is the highest level he can get too.
    i havnt watched davis enough, but i think mentally he is ahead of a lot of the rookies in his draft class. he seems to already know where to be defensively. i like his patience and i think overall he has a high basketball iq...

    that is usually the toughest part, so good for him.

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    You can not talk about Potential and ... when looking at these guys. they are all young and all have potential and they have been in the league for almost the same time.

    The truth of the matter is this:

    DD, Bayless and Johnson are NOT the top Tier Young talents of the NBA right now. they do not belong to the top 10-12 top under 23 player of the NBA right now.

    Some of you talk about talents and working in the gym and ... well, most of these guys are ym rat. Plus, what kind of improvement did Amir and DD and Bayless has shown over the years that you think they will work much harder, will improve much more than all these other guys over the next few days !!! There is no evidence supporting your theory and you support these guys and think this way because you are a fan of Raptor.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    You can not talk about Potential and ... when looking at these guys. they are all young and all have potential and they have been in the league for almost the same time.

    The truth of the matter is this:

    DD, Bayless and Johnson are NOT the top Tier Young talents of the NBA right now. they do not belong to the top 10-12 top under 23 player of the NBA right now.

    Some of you talk about talents and working in the gym and ... well, most of these guys are ym rat. Plus, what kind of improvement did Amir and DD and Bayless has shown over the years that you think they will work much harder, will improve much more than all these other guys over the next few days !!! There is no evidence supporting your theory and you support these guys and think this way because you are a fan of Raptor.
    this man speaks the truth !

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I don't disagree.
    HOWEVER; I do believe that if you put Bayless in a, let's say "Rondo Situation" where the team has no choice but to play him starters minutes, win or lose, hit or miss, I say he takes it goes with it. I don't think he would flounder. I think these guys are waiting to get real minutes and need to make mistakes. Bayless has proven it. Playoffs last year. Starting this year when Calderon was out. Dude was big. Give him back those minutes, and I say he makes the most of them. Derozan seems to play big when motivated and I think that is on the coach. Perhaps... PERHAPS... I shouldn't even say this... but maybe Triano isn't right for the Raps... right now. It's not him.. it's us. You know? We're all too young. Too inexperienced.

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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    You can not talk about Potential and ... when looking at these guys. they are all young and all have potential and they have been in the league for almost the same time.

    The truth of the matter is this:

    DD, Bayless and Johnson are NOT the top Tier Young talents of the NBA right now. they do not belong to the top 10-12 top under 23 player of the NBA right now.

    Some of you talk about talents and working in the gym and ... well, most of these guys are ym rat. Plus, what kind of improvement did Amir and DD and Bayless has shown over the years that you think they will work much harder, will improve much more than all these other guys over the next few days !!! There is no evidence supporting your theory and you support these guys and think this way because you are a fan of Raptor.
    I don't think anyone said they were top 10-12 under 23 players in the NBA. DeRozan probably barely makes top 30. The thread asks where we put our young guys in that particular list. Whilst I think this thread is quite pointless, no one said they were great. They have potential, and maybe one day the will become pretty decent. That group of players listed is really talented, no one ever lists out guys like Mahimni, Morris Almond, Marco Belinelli etc... You guys are just trying to put our players down by comparing them to players who are clearly better and in no way are in the same category.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RAPT0RS's Avatar
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    I think Bayless is a really promising guard. He could do a lot for Toronto. Just needs to tighten up his handling and make better decisions but that will come in time with more experience running the point.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't disagree.
    HOWEVER; I do believe that if you put Bayless in a, let's say "Rondo Situation" where the team has no choice but to play him starters minutes, win or lose, hit or miss, I say he takes it goes with it.
    I don't think that was the case with Rondo. belive me, Celtics would have traded for PG if Rondo was not able to pull his wait.

    I don't think any NBA Player can get a situation that he will be given all the time on the floor to just learn and ... It is all about taking advantage of the limited time you get and explode and show everyone what you are all about.

    I don't belive any of those stuff about Bayless on Portland and Playoff and ... However, He is given all the chances here in Toronto to show us what he can do this year.

    So far, i have not seen anything special. He is a Solid Back up PG at best so far for me.

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