i can see BC being interested in williams, though i'm not entirely sure. he's still young, and has, i guess, some upside, but at this point, he is what he is. mediocre. can't see how he improves them now, or down the road.
bibby would be a stop-gap & only acquired to get out from jose's contract, but at this point, unless they have some grand scheme to bring in another point over the next year, i'm not sure i understand the rationale of acquiring a shoot-first PG who's become accustomed to playing with a ball-dominating SG, when what the raptors need is a guy who's adept at distributing & creating for others (since there are so few raptors who currently have the ability to create something out of nothing).
but williams isn't a 'big,' and if the rumour is to be believed, it would be a big from each team involved. if jose & bibby are definites, then to make the $ work, it would almost have to be some combination of guys that appollo pointed out above, most likely zaza & dorsey.
TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.
Looking at the salaries and all I am thinking the best way for this trade to go down is for BC to get Atlanta down to a trade of:
Calderon & cash
Bibby, M. Evans and 1st*
* could get cute here and make it a conditional 1st wherein the Raps have the choice to trade up their Miami pick from this year (which would be a jump from 28th to 21st as of now) plus a 2nd in 2011 OR take Atlanta's 1st in 2012
Not a huge fan of Zaza or Williams and so I would hate to see the Raps lose Dorsey or Wright because the Raps have to put in some filler (rather see Weems or Alabi go). The above trade is much better for the team overall imo.
In terms of Zaza being included: Raps wouldn't actually need to provide filler and the upside to a trade that did involve Zaza is that Bibby and Zaza are MUCH easier to trade than Calderon. Calderon and Alabi would work just FINE for me.
In terms of Williams being included: this would be a disaster in my mind as I don't see Wright as being much worse AND all the future trade goodness that comes from getting rid of a big contract like Calderon's is lost with the pick-up of Williams.
For Toronto: Bibby's contract represents big savings compared to Calderon's and Evans is another expiring. Also, as mentioned, Bibby is MUCH easier to trade nearer the deadline.
For Atlanta: Calderon is a better player than Bibby at this point and he extends their competitive window of opportunity.
For me: What I want doesn't matter but I do not want to see Dorsey or Wright traded from this team. Just don't. Not a huge fan of Zaza but he is a cheap big and that has some value for trade.
Finally - the trading of Calderon is problematic as his contract is huge and a lot of teams have a great Pg situation going so getting rid of Calderon's big contract is just too important to this team. If there is a trade here, excepting the whole Williams thing, the Raps should make it happen.
Edit to add: If the trade I propose went down there may be a side advantage here in that the Raps, with Alabi and an extra 1st available, could become major facilitators in a Melo to the Nets trade (given the Ujiri/Alabi link and the desire of the Nuggets for 1st round picks) - this could also happen in a Zaza trade as the Nuggets could get back an actual player who is on a cheap salary (in Zaza)
Last edited by YKOil; Thu Jan 6th, 2011 at 12:37 PM. Reason: adding Alabi and 1st point
Then again, a Bibby-Jamal Crawford for Evans-Calderon also works.
I'm all for Pachulia because I love the kid's game. He doesn't take any shit from anyone, he can board, he has a decent post game (not fantastic by any means, but solid) and he plays hard tough D - which can get him into trouble from time to time because it leads him to be foul prone. The one thing he could do better that he isn't is that he's not a good shot blocker. But hey, for 4.5 mil a season, you could do a lot worse than Pachulia. Those who cry for Toronto needing an enforcer, a throwback to the days of Charles Oakley would love Pachulia.
I love Zaza, but question whether we want to take away minutes from Davis and Johnson. Mind you, Zaza's a baller.
No to Bibby, JE Skeets might kill himself. Besides, the last time Bibby came to Canada, we lost a franchise...
"Come back, Lisa, you little love killer...Come back Lisa, Lisa Lisamiller."
Rediculious why would we get rid of a pg Calderon who is playing very well at the present (not good on defense) for a washed up pg like Bibby and Zaza come on surely we can do better on a big man then that. In this trade the team that benefits the most is Atlanta by far. We are sitting good with our expiring contracts, our 12.5 million from the trade with Bosh and also 15 million especially with peja when it expires or we trade him in Feb. We are looking not to bad so lets not settle on garbage that Atlanta wants to send out to the trash that being the Raptors! Surely BC has more brains then that to settle on someone elses garbage! Also why would we consider getting rid of Julian Wright now as well he is playing great on defense and he himselfe I believe turned the Cleveland game around when he came into the game giving us defense and also scoring!! To the above I say why, why why!!!
Here's what should happen:
Calderon and Bargnani for Bibby and Josh Smith.
Basically, it's a move on Atlanta's part for Bargnani, who can help them score and start at the 5, which allows Horford to move to his natural 4 spot. Horford/Bargs = one of best interior combos in the league.
T.O. then swaps Peja for Dalemebert.
I say if we can shorten some contracts we do it. Bibby at his age is not a huge drop from Jose which tells you a lot about just how good/bad Jose is. Dorsey or Alabi I could not care less about.. if it's Weems, even better because then you have less worry of Colangelo signing him in the offseason to a Kapono/Hedo/Amir-type contract.
I'll take Zaza back because his contract is small and there are minimal increases in the following years, which can't be said for Marvin.
Otherwise I wouldn't do it. Doesn't make the Raps that much better, unless, as it seems may always the case with BC, this would be a move that makes future moves easier/gathers more tradeable pieces. Other than being taller, Pachulia doesn't bring anything that Dorsey doesn't already. Marvin Williams' contract is far too large. Rather take my chances with Kleiza and Weems.
can we please stop with the inclusion of jsmoove and bargs in the trade equation?
the rumor was Bibby + big for Calderon + big, eventhough both bargs and smith are bigs, they wouldnt be referred to as just "bigs" in rumors, im pretty sure their names will be highlighted, no doubt.
I don't think I'm going to change your opinion but I'm telling you Joe Johnson dominates the ball and Bibby is usually the fifth scoring option on the floor. The skills are there, the role is different. Calderon couldn't hack sharing responsibilities with Hedo Turkoglu, let alone getting his wings clipped by playing with Joe Johnson. You place Calderon on that Hawks team and his stats would plummet, book it.
Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jan 6th, 2011 at 04:01 PM.
man... my heart skipped when i though al horford mite be involved... guess i was being dumb. But still isn't maybe possible, if horford said he won't sign with them or somthing... im juss sayin off course 0_0, since his contract is almost up, and atlanta juss seems stuck in the middle of the eastern conference and doesnt seem to be gettin bttr
personally I think Dorsey could do very well on Atlanta in a a backup role to horford. He just has to go in grab boards, make put backs and hustle. I think Zaza would be a good pick up. He is similar to the type of player varejao is. He will go out and hustle, be a troll in the paint, grab boards, get putbacks, alter shots, intimidate players the easily penetrate. He might be raptors anchor. You gotta love players that come into a game and instantly make others better just because they play with swagger.
Last edited by pesterm1; Thu Jan 6th, 2011 at 04:35 PM.
Jeff, all i gotta say is "BLEH !" man that looks worse then what we have right now .... as good as Jsmith is that dudes a f'n cry baby, i dont want another dude with a f'd up ego.
In this proposed deal, the Raptors would add 2 rotational players for Calderon. In a new CBA with a projected lower salary cap and a possibility of a hard cap, this would be a good thing. It does add $1.4M in salary for next season but it saves $5.2M in salary for 2012-13. As is, I'm not sure I'd do this trade. If ATL threw in a 1st round pick in exchange for a future 2nd, I'm all over it.
One thing that might be wise to do when looking at Zaza's stats would be to look pre-2007-08 otherwise known as pre-Al Horford. I think this trade would tell all that Bargnani, Davis, and Johnson are the future front court of the team. That might not be a bad thing considering the potential Davis has shown to rebound and alter shots. IMO, as of now, longer term I see Davis starting and Johnson first big off the bench.
Also, having a capable 6'11", 275lbs on a $5M a year contract is not bad trade bait either. Teams are always looking for big men.
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