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Thread: Why do the Raptors suck?

  1. #21
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    Quote jamesk wrote: View Post
    Rose was as good as ever, no doubt, but it's the 79 points allowed that got them the win, much like our victory in Dallas; it's all about defense and rebounding in this game.
    No but they can hang with any team in the league, and are generally a good team because of Rose. You need defense too, you also need secondary scoring etc to win, but it all starts with that one all around superstar.

    Just watch what happens with the Wizards. They have not done anything "better" than the Raps, Indy, Charlotte, etc. But they just got lucky and hit the jackpot. Now they have that one superstar in the making, and they will be the next good team in the East within 2-3 years.

  2. #22
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    Quote Ruuuuu wrote: View Post
    lack of self-confidence?
    How about not understanding the word defense(Do they even know what D stands for? lol)?

  3. #23
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    How about not understanding the word defense(Do they even know what D stands for? lol)?
    But even at Pheonix' height of success they were consistently ranked 27-30 in defense. It is possible to win during the regular season while still playing little to no defense. It still comes down to out scoring the opponent. Andrea/Demar need to just develop as clutch players who can take over the game for us when we need a play or a basket. And Sacremento on Sunday was a perfect example of those two carrying us.
    Not saying the Raptors have the talent the Suns did, but still. It's possible. haha

  4. #24
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    They definitely need a defensive center who can rebound and block/adjust shoots. Their biggest liability is defense. As subpar as their wing defense is, I think the post defense is even worse. Plus Amir continues to big up dumb fouls, Ed Davis body is still too skinny and Bargnani doesn't even know what a rebound is.

    The Raptors can score but their offensive schemes seem very stagnant at time. Can't just pass it to Bargnani on the wing and stare when he is playing one on one offense. Calderon's play has been decent but still doesn't justify his salary.

    I like Triano but am curious how this team would perform with another coach. Triano doesn't seem to make good adjustments. The player rotation is very predictable. I'd recommend trying to get a tough a$$ defensive coach and move Triano to an assistant.

    So Summary:

    - Obtain defensive center (Chandler, Marc Gasol, etc.) to improve interior defense.
    - Improve offensive system so it isn't so stagnant.
    - Get a defensive minded coach and move Triano to assistant.
    +1 on the last 3 points.

  5. #25
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    But even at Pheonix' height of success they were consistently ranked 27-30 in defense. It is possible to win during the regular season while still playing little to no defense. It still comes down to out scoring the opponent. Andrea/Demar need to just develop as clutch players who can take over the game for us when we need a play or a basket. And Sacremento on Sunday was a perfect example of those two carrying us.
    Not saying the Raptors have the talent the Suns did, but still. It's possible. haha
    And what have they won in the post-season? Nothing. nada. lol. I laugh when people point to the Phoenix Suns. I can bet that if those Phoenix teams had some defence, Steve Nash would have had a ring instead of riding into the sunset, a ringless(lol) hall-of-famer.

  6. #26
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    And what have they won in the post-season? Nothing. nada. lol. I laugh when people point to the Phoenix Suns. I can bet that if those Phoenix teams had some defence, Steve Nash would have had a ring instead of riding into the sunset, a ringless(lol) hall-of-famer.
    Well I just don't really think we are in any position to be talking about 'winning in the post-season'. Hence why I pointed to the regular season. Which is the only place we will be playing games this year at least. Obviously if they could play better defense it would be great, but the pieces we have just don't lend itself to great defense. So we must work with what we have. Which is offense. And clearly lots of it.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Rookie Captain Haddock's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah and the Queen of England is French.
    German!
    "Come back, Lisa, you little love killer...Come back Lisa, Lisa Lisamiller."
    -Newsradio

  8. #28
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    Defense. Interior defense. We beat Sacramento, the worst team in the league, by six points in Toronto. We had to score 118 to win. We gave up 112 points to the worst offensive team in the NBA. Udrih played well but I wonder what the result would've been with Tyreke Evans playing.

    We couldn't contain a volatile Cousins and even at PF, Carl Landry and Jason Thompson scored 22 and 19 respectively.

    The number #1 priority is by far to obtain a defensive minded center.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    coaching:

    everyone agrees that we need to play better defense, well having our defensive players sit on the bench is not helping the situation.

    the argument that our defensive players need to sit on the bench because they are liabilities on offense is BS, run better sets! Anyone can make a wide open lay-up.

    as 666 said we just played the kings with no Evans and they still score 100+ points, I don't care if we won that is unacceptable.

  10. #30
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    coaching:

    everyone agrees that we need to play better defense, well having our defensive players sit on the bench is not helping the situation.

    the argument that our defensive players need to sit on the bench because they are liabilities on offense is BS, run better sets! Anyone can make a wide open lay-up.

    as 666 said we just played the kings with no Evans and they still score 100+ points, I don't care if we won that is unacceptable.
    Unacceptable? What are you writing the cheques? We're still a BAD team!! I think people forget that. We're young. And frankly, bad. Not AS bad as some teams, but still. Who's saying we should be up there with the Lakers and Miami and Orlando in terms of Defense. WE AREN'T! But we WON! Geezus, this is unbelievable. Some people are never happy.
    We simply don't have the defensive pieces. And yes JuJu is solid, but I don't care what you say, he's not stopping them from scoring the points they did. They were shooting lights out for 3 quarters. But they played D when it counts and won the game.

    Would you rather them hold the Kings to 80 but lose?

  11. #31
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    Inexperience (both players and coaches), lack of commitment to defense (both players and coaches), and confidence.
    Joshua Priemski
    NBA blogger
    SB Nation's Rufus on Fire
    www.RufusOnFire.com/
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    And what have they won in the post-season? Nothing. nada. lol. I laugh when people point to the Phoenix Suns. I can bet that if those Phoenix teams had some defence, Steve Nash would have had a ring instead of riding into the sunset, a ringless(lol) hall-of-famer.
    "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
    1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

    2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

    The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).

  13. #33
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
    1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

    2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

    The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).
    Ding! Ding! Ding!
    Nailed it. Wouldn't even try to say it any better myself.

  14. #34
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding!
    Nailed it. Wouldn't even try to say it any better myself.
    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
    1) the Kevin oneill raptors shut teams down, slowed the pace to a crawl and kept the score freakishly low. Only problem is they couldn't score. Tired players who had no offensive system to run relied on one on One bs. They weren't even sniffing the playoffs.

    2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.

    The last point I'd make in response to your comment is that you can also argue that if Joe Johnson hadn't broken his face, if amares knees had held up, if players hadn't left the bench then the suns could have easily won a ring or two. Besides what have the raps ever done to be dissing the suns (deep Playoff runs every year, western conference finalists, legit contenders vs 1 playoff series won in 16 years).
    ***. Three examples:-

    1.2008 Celtics. They had a suffocating defense, average offense, below average rebounding against an offensively talented Kobe Bryant and the Lakers with a soft interior defender at the time in Pau Gasol and no Andrew Bynum(who still has a glass body). Guess who won?(The answer is obvious - the Lakers were blown out in a blow-out of epic proportions in game 6 and they were offensively talented).

    2.2010 Lakers. They got Artest in the off-season to shore up a good perimeter defense with Kobe Bryant and the shedding of the soft label by Pau Gasol in the previous years` NBA finals.(You can point to the clutch shooting of Artest and the offensive rebounds, but the key in that finals(game 7 specifically) was the lock-down defense on Paul Pierce(who ran riot in multiple games with solid points and assists(which meant he could set up the offense and still score - a double threat that Rondo was not).The resullt of that lockdown defense was the Celtics offense running out of wack with an inconsistent Ray Allen after a record 3 point shooting game 2 performance and no-jumpshot Rondo).

    3.2004 Detroit Pistons. The Pistons were clearly playing against the odds(there was a so called big 3 of Gary Payton, Malone and Shaq and potentially a big 4 in a Kobe Bryant) but they stuck to their defense and executed well on offensive sets. The result - a shocker in the finals.(We all know Larry brown values defense).

    Finally, defense is more about effort(a summary of a Doc Rivers statement) and can`t be taught. Offense can be taught(shot mechanics can be altered, games can be slowed down a la Portland Trailblazers or you can be careful with the ball by committing few turnovers and conceding offensive rebounds(a one and done scheme)).

    Thanks for learning some basketball lessons guys(I don`t comment much but when I see people agreeing with anomalies against the beautiful game of basketball or wearing rose-colored glasses, my opinions have to be made). Besides, I have been a fan of basketball since the last years of MJ dynasty and still watch videos about the golden era of basketball(the late 70s - 80s with a good Trailblazers team, the Celtics, the crazy and emotional rivalry between the Bulls and the Detroit ``Bad Boy`` Pistons, so I can say, I do know much about basketball).

    Finally, I hope you guys like to be Dallas Mavericks or Phoenix Suns fans(since they make the playoffs with a good record every season but continue to choke because they pay no attention to the other side of the basketball called defense). I sure hope not.(Yes, they make the playoffs but make no noise there, sometimes they even get embarassed - remember the Golden State 8th seed shocker and the shockers by lower seeded Spurs in the playoffs?). Fans should demand for contention with the game played the right way(maybe that is why the Toronto sport scene sucks, because fans are okay with an era of medicority by attending the games).

  15. #35
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    ***. Three examples:-

    1.2008 Celtics. They had a suffocating defense, average offense, below average rebounding against an offensively talented Kobe Bryant and the Lakers with a soft interior defender at the time in Pau Gasol and no Andrew Bynum(who still has a glass body). Guess who won?(The answer is obvious - the Lakers were blown out in a blow-out of epic proportions in game 6 and they were offensively talented).

    2.2010 Lakers. They got Artest in the off-season to shore up a good perimeter defense with Kobe Bryant and the shedding of the soft label by Pau Gasol in the previous years` NBA finals.(You can point to the clutch shooting of Artest and the offensive rebounds, but the key in that finals(game 7 specifically) was the lock-down defense on Paul Pierce(who ran riot in multiple games with solid points and assists(which meant he could set up the offense and still score - a double threat that Rondo was not).The resullt of that lockdown defense was the Celtics offense running out of wack with an inconsistent Ray Allen after a record 3 point shooting game 2 performance and no-jumpshot Rondo).

    3.2004 Detroit Pistons. The Pistons were clearly playing against the odds(there was a so called big 3 of Gary Payton, Malone and Shaq and potentially a big 4 in a Kobe Bryant) but they stuck to their defense and executed well on offensive sets. The result - a shocker in the finals.(We all know Larry brown values defense).

    Finally, defense is more about effort(a summary of a Doc Rivers statement) and can`t be taught. Offense can be taught(shot mechanics can be altered, games can be slowed down a la Portland Trailblazers or you can be careful with the ball by committing few turnovers and conceding offensive rebounds(a one and done scheme)).

    Thanks for learning some basketball lessons guys(I don`t comment much but when I see people agreeing with anomalies against the beautiful game of basketball or wearing rose-colored glasses, my opinions have to be made). Besides, I have been a fan of basketball since the last years of MJ dynasty and still watch videos about the golden era of basketball(the late 70s - 80s with a good Trailblazers team, the Celtics, the crazy and emotional rivalry between the Bulls and the Detroit ``Bad Boy`` Pistons, so I can say, I do know much about basketball).

    Finally, I hope you guys like to be Dallas Mavericks or Phoenix Suns fans(since they make the playoffs with a good record every season but continue to choke because they pay no attention to the other side of the basketball called defense). I sure hope not.(Yes, they make the playoffs but make no noise there, sometimes they even get embarassed - remember the Golden State 8th seed shocker and the shockers by lower seeded Spurs in the playoffs?). Fans should demand for contention with the game played the right way(maybe that is why the Toronto sport scene sucks, because fans are okay with an era of medicority by attending the games).
    Thanks for Teaching us Basketball Lessons smushsmush. I didn't know any of that before. I feel much more educated thanks to you.
    Now the Raptors CAN go out and win a championship.

    You should give Bryan Colangelo a call. He might like to hire you on his consultation staff.

  16. #36
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    "The defense wins championships" saying holds true but how much d do you need in a game where the object is to outscore your opponent. 2 examples:
    2) Showtime lakers. They weren't called showtime cuz they were lock down defenders. They played enough d to win but they were mostly an offensive team.
    The "Showtime" Lakers were actually an above average defensive team for their era - Kareem, Cooper, Magic, Thompson, Green, Rambis, Scott - could all play defense - even Worthy would have looked like a good defender on today's Raptors. In fact, it was there defense and defensive rebounding that permitted them to get the fast breaks and make them Showtime!

  17. #37
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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    The "Showtime" Lakers were actually an above average defensive team for their era - Kareem, Cooper, Magic, Thompson, Green, Rambis, Scott - could all play defense - even Worthy would have looked like a good defender on today's Raptors. In fact, it was there defense and defensive rebounding that permitted them to get the fast breaks and make them Showtime!
    Well any team that wins Championships has to be Above Average. But to say you can't win without having the best in the league, is a little misleading. Jordan's Bulls were 'Above Average' defensively, but they were no way outstanding on the defensive end. Jordan was. The team wasn't.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    I think we suck this year because we really aren't very talented and many players are inexperienced. We do have heart and most games are entertaining, but we have been outmatched in so many games. Colangelo's got his work cut out, but he has made some solid moves this year and I think we will see better stuff on the court next year. A defensive big and a sf would be a nice start. Shit, take your pick, couldn't every position be upgraded?
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    the raps are on pace to be exactly where 90% of us thought they'd be this season.

    their weaknesses are the exact same weaknesses we all though they had before the season even started.

    personally, i've been pleasantly surprised they havent sucked more than i thought they were going to suck, and managed to pull off a couple wins i didn't see coming at all

  20. #40
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    Quote Ruuuuu wrote: View Post
    LOL at all the responses.... the source of Raps suckiness is certainly one of life's great mysteries

    Seriously though, I'd say: THEY DONT HAVE A SUPERSTAR PLAYER

    I saw Chicago beat Boston yesterday. The very same team that just clowned with the Raps on Friday. Boston came out doing the same thing, executing perfectly, etc....but Chicago has Rose who if he puts his mind to it, can get to the line or score anytime he wants. They were able to withstand Boston early surge and eventually pulled away and won.

    If you have a player like that, you're always going to have at least a good team, and possibly great team.
    One superstar doesn't make a team.

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