Bargnani to the Clippers

[Shantz]

There are two pieces that I would like to add to the Raptors...and both of those pieces are with the Clippers. I am not talking about anything unrealistic like Blake Griffen or Eric Gordon (neither would happen). Here is my proposed trade:

Raptors Trades the following to the Clippers:
-Andrea Bargnani
-Julian Wright
-and Sonny Weems

Clippers Trade the following to the Raptors:
-DeAndre Jordon
-Ryan Gomes
-Randy Foye
-and Minnesota's 2011 First Round Pick

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4veyuzu

I know it is a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people to trade Bargs (others would love it no matter what), but here is my logic.

I think the Clippers make this trade in order to pair Bargnani and Blake Griffen together. They could really balance one another well as Bargs could spread the floor to open lanes, provide pretty good man-on-man defense which would allow Griffen to bring the help D. They could really work well together.
Julian Wright also would provide them with either an expiring contract or an RFA which they can retain to pair with Aminu for the SF spot. And Sonny could be resigned for fairly cheap to provide a back-up to Eric Gordon.

Why for the Raptors? DeAndre Jordon is a fantastic young center prospect. He is only 22 but has developed a nice game near the basket on the offensive side of the ball. But where he really brings a skill set is on the defensive side. He is 6-11 (some say 7ft), 265lbs, and has great defensive skills. Over the last 4 games he has averaged 5.5blocks against good competition (Utah, Atlanta, Den, GS). Him, Ami, and Davis could be a really strong defensive unit while bringing great rebounding.

Gomes and Foye would basically be absorbing crap contracts from the Clippers (Gomes has 2 more seasons of $4mil each after this, and Foye has 1 more season of $4.25mil). By giving them the cheaper options of Weems and Wright and obsorbing the extra money our way, Clippers throw in Minnesota's First Round pick.

The Minnesota pick is top 10 protected in 2011, and unprotected in 2012. High odds say that it would be a high pick in the 2012 draft which is supposed to be loaded.


Thoughts?

[MangoKid]

Thoughts are that it would have to be a real sweetheart, slam dunk deal in order for Colangelo to give up Bargnani, and unfortunately, that isn't it. Foye is okay (not really having a good season to date) and Gomes is a non-factor - actually, both Foye and Gomes could be considered non-factors. Jordan is nice and he's finally showing some promise, but him and the first is not worth Bargnanithis trade. The favours the Clippers more than it does the Raptors.

[Shantz]

Are you factoring in Bargnani's contract as well? I like Bargnani too, but do we as Raptors fans tend to overvalue him around the league? Could he actually get the Raptors more then this? It seems like a pretty good haul to me to just get D. Jordon and the pick. Look at the players that are currently expected to go top 5 in the 2012 (this is assuming that T-Wolves keep their pick this year due to the top 10 protection:

-Austin Rivers, PG/SG
-Quincy Miller, SF
Michael Gilchrist, SF
-Anthony Davis, SF
-Tony Mitchell, SF
-James McAdoo, SF/PF
-Rakeem Christmas, PF
-Marquis Teague, PG
-Jereme Richmond, SF
-Harrison Barnes, SF

We talk about how the Raptors biggest needs are interior defense, strong wing play, and a pass first point gaurd. This trade gives us the interior Defense in DeAndre Jordon, and we will have 3 high picks over the next 2 years (Toronto 2011, Toronto 2012, and Minnesota 2012), along with a low first rounder this year (Miami 2011) to try to solve the other problems. That gives us a great framework.

[Matt52]

Personally, I think Raptors fans undervalue Bargnani. Many other teams speak very highly of him. I don't like Doug Smith's blog that much but what I do like is he always links to the other teams report of the previous night game. Teams tend to speak highly of Bargnani.

Toronto already has an interior-defensive minded player in the fold. His name is Ed Davis. DeAndre Jordan was ridiculed for 2 years prior to this season so why not give Davis a little bit of time to develop and Davis is much less raw than Jordan was. Also the acquisition of Jordan would leave hardly any offensive presence in the front court.

I'd rather stand pat with the young, major pieces under contract and use the expirings (Peja, Evans, Weems) and Calderon/Barbosa as trade chips.

[MaGIX]

bargnani contract is sweet he makes 8.5 mil djezus or you think that is to much WTF
btw overvalue would be correct if he makes more then 12 mil
at 8.5 mil bargnani could be a good piece to great team if raps can draft a star and get and good FA we will have a real solid team next few years i suspect playoffs in 2 years
i rather trade evans + stojakevic + jose and use the 10.5 mil TPE that is a lot of room to work with
trading andrea is stupid even for fans who think he's only a third option , because he makes 3rd option money
for example he makes less then noah, he is 3rd best player of the bulls
if you think that ain't a good argument well yeah screw it

[northgrantballer]

Personally, I love this deal. We get a long talent of defence in Jordan, a quick pg, and a middle peice. Foye could backup Bayless and we could trade away calderon for an all-around player. This also puts DeRozan in a leadership spot where he would excell (23 ppg lately) Fantastic deal

[draftedraptor]

Essentially we are giving away Andrea (7footer , good value contract ,and current face of raptors) for the useless Deandre and a draftpick?

Not happening.

Give me Joakim Noah/McGee/Bogut/Chandler + first pick. IMO nothing less than a solid double double guy + draft pick.

[Shantz]

I can understand what you are saying, but I'm guessing if this exact same trade was proposed to a Clipper fan, they would not see it that way. Perhaps the Clippers front office would value Bargnani highly. My initial thought was that we may be underselling LA due to the high value of the draft pick. In this case, I do not think that I am undervaluing Bargnani as he is a player who I certainly appreciate and recognize him for his skill (although there are areas needing improvement), perhaps if anything, I am overvaluing the Minnesota First Round Pick.

At the same time though, I would say that you are undervaluing DeAndre Jordan, and to a lesser degree the First Rounder. Jordan has a lot of potential and could help create the foundation for a defensive team centered around Davis, Amir, and Jordan. It would also give Demar the keys to the franchise (like northgrantballer mentioned). But for those of you who are saying this is not enough, how about this idea. Two seperate trades (does not work as one), both with the Clippers still:

Trade 1:

Toronto Trades:
-Andrea Bargnani

LA Clippers Trade:
-Randy Foye
-Willie Warren

Trade 2:

Toronto Trades:
-Julian Wright
-Sonny Weems

LA Clippers Trade:
-DeAndre Jordan
-Al-Farouq Aminu
-Minnesota First Round Pick

This adds in a good young defensive SF in Aminu to add to our core.

Does this change people's minds? Is this trade doable now in everyones eyes? Or are we still off?

[Shantz]

Jordan would need to sign an extension before the deal goes down, he is only a RFA up to $3mil I believe. Meaning that another team could sign him to higher then that and he could walk.

[grindhouse]

with 1 year left on jordan's contract I would wait till offseason.

[JoePanini]

I can understand what you are saying, but I'm guessing if this exact same trade was proposed to a Clipper fan, they would not see it that way. Perhaps the Clippers front office would value Bargnani highly. My initial thought was that we may be underselling LA due to the high value of the draft pick. In this case, I do not think that I am undervaluing Bargnani as he is a player who I certainly appreciate and recognize him for his skill (although there are areas needing improvement), perhaps if anything, I am overvaluing the Minnesota First Round Pick.

At the same time though, I would say that you are undervaluing DeAndre Jordan, and to a lesser degree the First Rounder. Jordan has a lot of potential and could help create the foundation for a defensive team centered around Davis, Amir, and Jordan. It would also give Demar the keys to the franchise (like northgrantballer mentioned). But for those of you who are saying this is not enough, how about this idea. Two seperate trades (does not work as one), both with the Clippers still:

Trade 1:

Toronto Trades:
-Andrea Bargnani

LA Clippers Trade:
-Randy Foye
-Willie Warren

Trade 2:

Toronto Trades:
-Julian Wright
-Sonny Weems

LA Clippers Trade:
-DeAndre Jordan
-Al-Farouq Aminu
-Minnesota First Round Pick

This adds in a good young defensive SF in Aminu to add to our core.

Does this change people's minds? Is this trade doable now in everyones eyes? Or are we still off?

The first trade makes us nearly horrible. Randy Foye is shit, and Willie Warren isn't worth our best player.

The second trade would never be accepted by the Clippers. Jordan has been giving 10 and 10 and blocks and Aminu averaged a double double in college last year (I love Aminu btw) not only that but they give us a pick, for two guys who shouldn't play more than 25 minutes a game, combined.

[MangoKid]

I can understand what you are saying, but I'm guessing if this exact same trade was proposed to a Clipper fan, they would not see it that way. Perhaps the Clippers front office would value Bargnani highly. My initial thought was that we may be underselling LA due to the high value of the draft pick. In this case, I do not think that I am undervaluing Bargnani as he is a player who I certainly appreciate and recognize him for his skill (although there are areas needing improvement), perhaps if anything, I am overvaluing the Minnesota First Round Pick.

At the same time though, I would say that you are undervaluing DeAndre Jordan, and to a lesser degree the First Rounder. Jordan has a lot of potential and could help create the foundation for a defensive team centered around Davis, Amir, and Jordan. It would also give Demar the keys to the franchise (like northgrantballer mentioned). But for those of you who are saying this is not enough, how about this idea. Two seperate trades (does not work as one), both with the Clippers still:

Trade 1:

Toronto Trades:
-Andrea Bargnani

LA Clippers Trade:
-Randy Foye
-Willie Warren

Trade 2:

Toronto Trades:
-Julian Wright
-Sonny Weems

LA Clippers Trade:
-DeAndre Jordan
-Al-Farouq Aminu
-Minnesota First Round Pick

This adds in a good young defensive SF in Aminu to add to our core.

Does this change people's minds? Is this trade doable now in everyones eyes? Or are we still off?

I'd only do that deal if Aminu was included. However, you're also forgetting that the Clippers just gave a whack of money to Chris Kaman a few years back. They'd have to move Kaman before they'd entertain the thought of acquiring Bargnani.

[northgrantballer]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

there is a way to get DeAndre without losing bargnani

[Shantz]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

there is a way to get DeAndre without losing bargnani

You just gave a link to the Trade Machine main page, not a saved trade. What were you thinking?

[northgrantballer]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=69t9rqm

My apologies for earlier

[Shantz]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=69t9rqm

My apologies for earlier

No worries!

I really don't see that as viable. I can't see any way that the Clippers move both of their Centers and only get a big like Solomon Alabi back. That leaves them very vulnerable.

I am interested in DeAndre Jordan, but also very much in Minnesota's pick. That was my hole goal with this trade, to acquire both of those pieces.

[Mack North]

The Minnesota pick is likely a top 5 pick, plus we have two others? Sign me up as fast as you can for this one... I don't usually check this forum but this makes sense to me...

[planetmars]

The only way to get that Minnesota pick from the Clippers is to acquire Davis.

I say we do a Peja for Davis + the pick.

We take on an albatross of a contract, but Davis can ride the pine and collect his fortune while we grab a future top 5 pick. Eventually once Davis becomes an expiring contract we can swing him to a contender for another pick or a TPE or something. Davis can also be used as a backup to both Bayless and Jose, similar to what Banks was doing last year.

We may even be able to add Jordan to the trade since the Clippers will do anything to unload their mistake.

[Shantz]

The Clippers don't actually seem that interested in trading Baron, that is what I have seen through different basketball blogs (clipperblog being the main one). It seems like they are growing content with the productivity that Baron is giving them and how he is meshing with Griffen.

If the Clippers were willing to do Baron and the Minnesota First Round pick, for Peja...I'm pretty sure I would do that. Baron could most likely be flipped in a year when his contract only has a year left. The 2012 draft looks deep with SF, and if Kyrie Irving stays at Duke for another year he would be added into that mixture as well. Baron could be worth having a good chance at that.

[Buddahfan]

The Clippers would not make that trade.

VDN is a defensive minded coach.

Why would he give up Jordan for Bargnani. Insanity.