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Thread: Is DeRozan's Defense Worse than Bargnani's?

  1. #21
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    Guarding a SG is easier than guarding a C.

    On the bright side both guys can only improve defensively.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    Guarding a SG is easier than guarding a C.
    That is a VERY general statement.
    I can't imagine guarding Kobe Bryant is "easier" than guarding Andris Biedrins.
    Or guarding Monta Ellis is "easier" than guarding Al Horford.

    I think they are both different monsters that to be treated as such.
    Both are skills that cannot be picked up over night; but are skills that CAN be picked up over a long period of sustained hard work.
    Which both are not afraid to commit too, I'm sure.

  3. #23
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    True but I'd argue there are more Cs than SGs of high caliber in the league.

    Guarding a post player in the college level and beyond is like a wrestling match. Physically exhausting. I'd rather chase a guy on the perimeter off screens and make him beat me with a jumpshot then be bodied by a big man.

    Yes it is a general statement but take Kobe and Shaq in their prime. Who would you rather guard. Shaq is the tougher guard. No one can defend an elite center. There's more intricacies to guarding a bigman. Fighting for rebounds is a big component that guards don't deal with as much.

  4. #24
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    True but I'd argue there are more Cs than SGs of high caliber in the league.

    Guarding a post player in the college level and beyond is like a wrestling match. Physically exhausting. I'd rather chase a guy on the perimeter off screens and make him beat me with a jumpshot then be bodied by a big man.

    Yes it is a general statement but take Kobe and Shaq in their prime. Who would you rather guard. Shaq is the tougher guard. No one can defend an elite center. There's more intricacies to guarding a bigman. Fighting for rebounds is a big component that guards don't deal with as much.
    It's been a while, but can you tell me what 1995 is like? And by the way, if you see 1995-me, can you tell me to invest heavily in Apple. Here in 2011, the center position is probably the weakest it's been in decades. There's only one elite center in the league (Howard), only 2 centers in the top 30 in scoring, and the probable starter in the West at center is averaging 10 ppg and 7 rpg. Meanwhile, the SG position has possibly the best player in the game right now, four of the top 10 scorers in the league, and is possibly the deepest position, quality-wise in the league.

    And by the way, I'm guessing you have't defended both positions yourself. As a shooting guard, you have to defend all over the floor, not just in the paint, you get run around countless picks, defend players who are some of the quickest and most athletic in the league, can shoot from 3 point as well as in the paint. And you have to defend a player who is incredibly hard to double team, so you mostly have to do it all yourself. A center, for the most part, stays in the paint and can be neutralized easier by throwing double teams at him, as well as packing the paint to prevent him getting the ball.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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  5. #25
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    It's been a while, but can you tell me what 1995 is like? And by the way, if you see 1995-me, can you tell me to invest heavily in Apple.
    Get in on Google and gold. Both are going to be hot. Trust me.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    DeRozan is making mistakes due to a lack of experience. He has all the tools to be a very good defender. He has the work ethic and conditioning to make it happen. The better question is to ask how they compare at age 21. Wait, Bargnani was only a rookie who was so weak and lost that Jose Calderon could probably post him up all night long.
    No its not a better question

    It is just a different question.

    In the process you avoided answering the question which is your right.

    But please lets not try and obfuscate the issue by your not answering the question but rather saying you have a better question

    I have seen this trick pulled too many times in my life
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Fri Jan 14th, 2011 at 11:01 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Well I mostly played SF which required chasing guys and fighting for rebounds. I'd rather chase people off screens any day of the week. I did not play at a D1 or NBA level so it is what it is though.

    About the center position, I think it's only fair to have to introduce some PFs. With SGs you can also add some PGs. SFs can play both but also lean to SG. I think the C/PF group is tougher to defend though. Nothing wrong with some disagreement. We are on a forum.

    Sole SGs:
    Kobe Byrant, Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Manu Ginobilli.

    Sole Cs:
    Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Will Bynum

    Edge: Sole SGs

    Mixed SGs:
    Dwayne Wade, Monta Ellis, Jason Terry, Rodney Stuckey, Gilbert Arenas

    Mixed Cs:
    Amare Stoudemire, Blake Griffin, Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LeMarcus Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Luis Scola, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Al Jefferson, Al Horford, Nene Hilario, Elton Brand

    Edge: Mixed Cs

    Overall Edge: Cs

  8. #28
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Get in on Google and gold. Both are going to be hot. Trust me.
    Once the brakes are put on the Feds printing money in excess and devaluing the dollar gold will crash.

    This should start to happen before the end of the year.

    I would short gold at this point.

    I have no comment on Google at this point.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Fri Jan 14th, 2011 at 11:07 PM.
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    DeMar: 1 year pro, 1 year NCAA

    Andrea: 5 years pro NBA, 4 years pro Euro ball and even still we're debating this?

    'Nuff said. Andrea Sucks ass on D.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    Guarding a SG is easier than guarding a C.

    On the bright side both guys can only improve defensively.
    Depends on the player

    Who do you think is harder to guard

    Dwight Howard or DeMar DeRozan?

    or who was harder to guard

    Kareem or Alvin Williams?

    Or maybe

    Shaq when he was under 33 or Jose at any time in his career?

    Now if you want to ask who was harder to guard in their prime

    Wilt or Michael you will get a heated argument.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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  11. #31
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    It's a good think Derozon is shining offensively because his defense is awful... and I would say worse than Bargnani's.
    Fouling a 3 point shooter twice is pathetic, especially in the same half. For someone so "athletic" he also can't keep guys in front of him. His IQ will improve but considering his athleticism he should be a far better defender. Derozan being a SG picks up fouls like Amir. Someone mentioned impatience. That's correct but a nice way of saying lacks discipline and takes unnecessary risks.

    Derozan will also bulk up with age which will benefit him, but now his defense is atrocious.
    Apolo meant that we3 the fans are impatient , not Derozan...

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    In addition

    1. A Guard usually has to guard only the Guard that he is guarding
    2. A Center has to not only guard the opposing Center but also has to guard any player that penetrates the paint. So a center has to guard a lot more players than a Guard does.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  13. #33
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    True but I'd argue there are more Cs than SGs of high caliber in the league.

    Guarding a post player in the college level and beyond is like a wrestling match. Physically exhausting. I'd rather chase a guy on the perimeter off screens and make him beat me with a jumpshot then be bodied by a big man.

    Yes it is a general statement but take Kobe and Shaq in their prime. Who would you rather guard. Shaq is the tougher guard. No one can defend an elite center. There's more intricacies to guarding a bigman. Fighting for rebounds is a big component that guards don't deal with as much.
    What are you talking about lol. IMO both can be challenging but i couldnt imagine trying to keep up with the like of kobe all night or playing perfect D on ray allen jsut to have him drain 3's in ur face all night...

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    I am starting to have some reservations whether DeRozan has the ability and desire to be a good defensive player.

    I don't think that there has been much if any improvement in his defense so far this season vs his rookie year.

    Yes he still has age and lack of experience on his side but he has such a long way to go to be a decent NBA defender and it appears that at this point he is not improving.

    So I have some reservations about him becoming a decent NBA defender at some point.

    Hopefully I will be wrong.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  15. #35
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Once the brakes are put on the Feds printing money in excess and devaluing the dollar gold will crash.
    Once the U.S. loses it's reserve currency status and their economy fails(as in dollar crash) you're actually going to see gold go much higher but we getting a little to far off course now I think...

  16. #36
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    buddahfan another post that does not really need much thinking for an answer...You just have to wake up for a split second to realize that DeRozan's everything is worse than Bargnani's, including his girlfriend. Bargnani is way better at all aspects of the game.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The only difference between Bargs and DeMar in their second year comparisons was that Andrea wasn't allowed to be this bad. If Andrea sneezed at the wrong time during a game, Mitchell yanked him. I think they're both bad and both have the potential to "not get it".
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote 666 wrote: View Post
    Well I mostly played SF which required chasing guys and fighting for rebounds. I'd rather chase people off screens any day of the week. I did not play at a D1 or NBA level so it is what it is though.

    About the center position, I think it's only fair to have to introduce some PFs. With SGs you can also add some PGs. SFs can play both but also lean to SG. I think the C/PF group is tougher to defend though. Nothing wrong with some disagreement. We are on a forum.

    Sole SGs:
    Kobe Byrant, Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, Manu Ginobilli.

    Sole Cs:
    Dwight Howard, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Will Bynum

    Edge: Sole SGs

    Mixed SGs:
    Dwayne Wade, Monta Ellis, Jason Terry, Rodney Stuckey, Gilbert Arenas

    Mixed Cs:
    Amare Stoudemire, Blake Griffin, Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LeMarcus Aldridge, Zach Randolph, Luis Scola, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Al Jefferson, Al Horford, Nene Hilario, Elton Brand

    Edge: Mixed Cs

    Overall Edge: Cs
    Will Bynum a center? RFLMAO - Actually I have made the same mistake myself

    No Bargnani in the list - 1 Month in the penalty box, 4sure

    I am not sure what you mean by mixed. If you mean players that play multiple positions then I would have a beef with your list of mixed Centers.

    A lot of the guys you put on the Mixed Centers list only play Center in an emergency but hell even Amir Johnson has played Center in an emergency.

    The only guys that I would keep on a the mixed Centers list are Nene, Duncan, Gasol, Horford and Jefferson.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  19. #39
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The only difference between Bargs and DeMar in their second year comparisons was that Andrea wasn't allowed to be this bad. If Andrea sneezed at the wrong time during a game, Mitchell yanked him. I think they're both bad and both have the potential to "not get it".
    +1
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Once the U.S. loses it's reserve currency status and their economy fails(as in dollar crash) you're actually going to see gold go much higher but we getting a little to far off course now I think...
    Fine you can keep or put your money into gold at this point and lose your financial ass.

    Don't say I didn't warn you.

    You really need to understand what happened in the November 2010 elections in America.

    Until you do your thinking about gold prices over the next two years will be wrong unless you change your position to agree with mine.

    For starters look at the chart of $HUI

    A classic H & S Reversal

    http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24HUI
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Jan 15th, 2011 at 10:55 AM.
    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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