View Poll Results: What direction should the Raptors take?

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  • Tear it down - bye, bye Jose, Evans, Barbo!

    13 48.15%
  • Stay the course - keep everyone and add a couple of draft picks and free agents.

    10 37.04%
  • Make the playoffs this year, the future is now. AI, Wallace, Kaman!

    4 14.81%
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Thread: Toronto's Options

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Default Toronto's Options

    Everyone seems to have an opinion on which direction the Raptors should go or what Colangelo should or shouldn't do with the expirings, draft picks, and TPE. The options include:

    1) Tear it all apart and rebuild with a total youth movement. This would include dealing Jose, Barbosa, Evans, Peja for picks and very young players on rookie deals. The core of the team moving forward would be Bayless, DD, Davis, Johnson, and Bargnani. Decisions would have to be made on Weems, Dorsey, Wright, and Kleiza.

    2) Continue on the path they are on with the team they have returning next year plus draft picks and whatever signings are done over the summer. The rookie contract players stay. Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza, and Barbosa stay. Decisions to be made on Weems, Evans, Dorsey, Wright.

    3) The Raptors make the playoffs - forget the future we might all be dead then anyways. Use the TPE and expirings to acquire an established player who has been rumoured to be available such as Gerald wallace, Boris Diaw, Chris Kaman, Andre Iguodala, Nene, or whoever else.

    What would you do? Tear it down, stay the course, or forget development, the future is now.

    If at all possible, reasons why and the names of players you would like to see here if suggesting tear it down or make the playoffs now.

    Please no "Get rid of Bargnani" or "Bargnani is King!" I'm curious to see how Raptors fans around here want the rest of the season to play out.

    I've said many times the decisions made over the next 7-8 months are going to shape the franchise for years to come - so no pressure in your thinking!

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    FWIW, I will post my thoughts later. I'm curious to see others - and I have to go out.

  3. #3
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    I think we are rebuilding, so we should make the most of it. Going into the playoffs this year, or in the next 3 would only be to gain experience. If we go for players like Iggy and Wallace we will be stuck in the 8th seed for the next few years, and it will not allow us to improve. I would keep the core tight, with Jose, Bargnani, Johnson, DD, Davis, Wright and Kleiza staying. Use our TPE for an expiring contract and a small, but bad contract. And use our Miami picks to get some young players. So I think we should have a balance between option 1 and 2.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i say tear it down if we can get some young talent back. we're never going to be a contender if we don't establish a solid core and you do that through the draft/projects.

  5. #5
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Everyone seems to have an opinion on which direction the Raptors should go or what Colangelo should or shouldn't do with the expirings, draft picks, and TPE. The options include:

    1) Tear it all apart and rebuild with a total youth movement. This would include dealing Jose, Barbosa, Evans, Peja for picks and very young players on rookie deals. The core of the team moving forward would be Bayless, DD, Davis, Johnson, and Bargnani. Decisions would have to be made on Weems, Dorsey, Wright, and Kleiza.

    2) Continue on the path they are on with the team they have returning next year plus draft picks and whatever signings are done over the summer. The rookie contract players stay. Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza, and Barbosa stay. Decisions to be made on Weems, Evans, Dorsey, Wright.

    3) The Raptors make the playoffs - forget the future we might all be dead then anyways. Use the TPE and expirings to acquire an established player who has been rumoured to be available such as Gerald wallace, Boris Diaw, Chris Kaman, Andre Iguodala, Nene, or whoever else.

    What would you do? Tear it down, stay the course, or forget development, the future is now.

    If at all possible, reasons why and the names of players you would like to see here if suggesting tear it down or make the playoffs now.

    Please no "Get rid of Bargnani" or "Bargnani is King!" I'm curious to see how Raptors fans around here want the rest of the season to play out.

    I've said many times the decisions made over the next 7-8 months are going to shape the franchise for years to come - so no pressure in your thinking!
    The team is a mess that I would not even know what to do. BC created this team, he prepared his bed, so must he lie in it. In my opinion, I trade Bargs, Jose, Peja, Evans, Kleiza, Barbosa for draft picks - even a 2nd rounder and press the reset button on this team.

    Consequently, get a good draft scout(from the San Antonio Spurs and OKC Thunder) and sack Jim Kelly, the director of draft scouting(a lot of gaffes in the draft, the DD pick is looking like a head-scratcher, how do you not know that a player has an atrocious defense like he has), take on some sort of large contracts with draft picks.

    The motto for this team should be team reset - draft picks and veterans on large contracts willing to mentor the draft picks(and sold at the subsequent deadline for more draft picks). Get a defensive coach and sack Triano(an assistant coach from OKC, Spurs, Portland will be good since they have good defensive systems).

  6. #6
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    MLSE is gonna stay the course, so that means no using of the TPE, no using the Peja expiring, no use of the Reggie expiring. No one knows what next year is gonna look like because of the uncertainty of the new CBA.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    The team is a mess that I would not even know what to do. BC created this team, he prepared his bed, so must he lie in it. In my opinion, I trade Bargs, Jose, Peja, Evans, Kleiza, Barbosa for draft picks - even a 2nd rounder and press the reset button on this team.
    For a second rounder? Common man. You think THAT helps the team? What a ridiculous thing to say.

    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    (a lot of gaffes in the draft, the DD pick is looking like a head-scratcher, how do you not know that a player has an atrocious defense like he has), take on some sort of large contracts with draft picks.
    A head scratcher? Really? Unbelievable.
    We'll see if you're singing the same tune next year when he's the best pick out of that class.


    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    an assistant coach from OKC, Spurs, Portland will be good since they have good defensive systems.
    You want Bryan to promote ANOTHER inexperienced Assistant Coach to the big seat? Another novel idea.

    Why wouldn't the Raptors just fire BC and hire you?!
    Last edited by Joey; Sat Jan 15th, 2011 at 02:56 PM.

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    I am with Joe on a balance between 1&2 except I am ok with trading Calderon before he gets hurt again, try getting young or draft picks with Reggie and Peja and let the TPE expire or use for a $5M type contract. Keep Barbosa and look to extend at a cheaper rate. No QO for Julian but try to resign for a little over minimum.

    Draft focus is wing first (dreaming of Terrence Jones) PG second if we can't get a solid PG through the trades (ideal since BC is prime in trades and marginal in free agency.)

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i say tear it down if we can get some young talent back. we're never going to be a contender if we don't establish a solid core and you do that through the draft/projects.
    Amen. Ummm, two, three games out of a playoff spot? That stuff is for suckers.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Keep Barbosa! He's not young but he has an excellent winning attitude. He could be that veteran who helps solidifies guys when they're losing and keeps them together. You want a winning culture and I think he brings something to the table for it.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Rookie AJM's Avatar
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    I'm all for rebuilding but if u can get players like Kaman, Nene and Gerald Wallace why shouldn't we?! if u wanna have something to say in this league u need veterans like this in your team.

  12. #12
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    If we finish with the 6th pick (at present moment we currently hold), we might have to use that Miami first to trade up. I do hope Barbosa picks up his PO for next season.

  13. #13
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    Basically we lack guys who can play on both ends of the floor. It's been one or the other for a significant number of seasons now. Our "core" just isn't good enough, and imo won't be getting much better from what they are at this point. So we need better main guys. If that involves dealing away Bargs, Jose, DD, Reggie etc. then so be it.

    Amir, Leandro, and Ed are all players I'd like to keep, but don't see them as starters (at least not yet for Ed) on a winning team.

    So I say tear it down, but only if we get better players/prospects in return. If all we get are the same one-dimensonal type of players, then what would be the point? If that's the case then I'd rather try and see whether Demar can learn to play defense or pass a basketball, or dribble and finish in traffic without getting blocked/stripped 9/10 times. Or if Ed Davis' only real issue is his bulk.

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    I think one of Ed, Amir and Andrea will have to go in the coming years. All three should be playing power foward.

  15. #15
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    I want to wait and see how the rest of the season goes and what the new CBA looks like other than saying that the two positions that I think the Raptors need to upgrade the most at this point are SF and PG with SF being way out in front unless the Raptors can get a real impact player and game changer at the PG spot in the upcoming draft.

    I would trade Bargnani before either Davis or Johnson if the Raptors could get a real stud SF who can score and defend. Right now the Raptors still need Bargnani's scoring. However if they can add a real stud at SF then I would replace Bargnani at Center with someone who can defend and rebound. In addition if the Raptors add a Center who can defend and rebound that will allow Johnson more opportunities to get out on the fast break because he won't be needed to rebound as much.

    Having Johnson teamed up with a Center who can defend and rebound would provide awesome interior defense make the Raptors transition game even that much more potent, could one say devastating?

    Yea I think they could. Imagine having a Center who could defend and rebound along with Johnson and a PG like D. Rose. Awesome, truly awesome.

    The only reason for keeping Bargnani long term is if the Raptors can not add another big time scorer at the SF spot or get a game changer impact PG.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Jan 15th, 2011 at 03:45 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Front Court

    I think Solo should be able to fill the Defense center we need, However he's still a few years away. So a rotation of Bargs, Amir, Davis and Solo should be one of the better front courts 3 years from now, I say keep Dorsey because hes cheap and fill a hole if one of them goes down. If they grow and gel as expected this could be a good front court of defense with amir davis and solo and bargs supplying the offense.

    Wings

    DD will need to be more consistent but he will get there patience is the issue here. Wright if he can start shooting a 3 I would keep he can be thabo, bonner type player. However I would look to trade for trade for someone like Terrence Jones maybe even Barnes but he hasn't looking very good at UNC. Barbosa and Kleiza seem like Band-aids for right now

    Weems undecided kind of on the fence but I would keep him for DD. just like jack and bosh.

    PG

    Bayless has the tools he reminds me of Nash/billups when they were younger in regards to consistency not the way he plays (well maybe billups).

    and calderon is the perfect teacher to bayless unless some miracle happens we end up trading for Nash.

    Thats about it except I would love to see BC trade for Nash and Carter, have Air Canada and Captain Canuck retire as raptors would be sick..haha

  17. #17
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    My vote is for option 1...if we can get fair value for our players. Jose is having a fantastic season and there should be teams that would want to take a crack at him. If we can get good value for him (young players, or high picks) then that is something to look at and heavily consider. The same would go for Reggie, Barbosa (although his recent injury could stop this), Kleiza and Peja (although my preference is to simply see Peja expire, unless we can get a crazy deal...no lateral moves that add future salary).

    If we get a good any offers for Weems or Dorsey I would also take those. I can't really see us getting much for them though.

    DeRozan, Davis, Johnson, Bayless (future 6th man), Wright (need to resign this summer, unless he gets vastly overpaid), Alabi (lets see where he can get to next year), and Bargnani should stick around. And even still, if we get a godfather offer from someone for Bargs then I'm okay with that too.

    My biggest preference though, is to stockpile picks that are not protected for 2012. If we can get protected picks for 2011, that then become open for 2012 then that is good too.

    Most analysts say that 2012 is going to be a deeper draft pool then 2011. If we add with our top pick in 2011 (Kyrie Irving, Terrence Jones, or Enes Kanter) and then can add other talent in 2012 (Michael Gilchrist, Quincy Miller, or Austin Rivers). My dream is we add Kyrie Irving (amazing PG who gives us fantastic play on both sides of the court) and Michael Gilchrist (SF who says he takes rebounding and defense personally, plus from what I read he has a nice game near the basket...shot apparently needs work). Irving and Gilchrist were high school teammates and apparently are great friends...what a better way to keep them in Toronto long term.

    Ah...dreams are good!

  18. #18
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    For a second rounder? Common man. You think THAT helps the team? What a ridiculous thing to say.



    A head scratcher? Really? Unbelievable.
    We'll see if you're singing the same tune next year when he's the best pick out of that class.



    You want Bryan to promote ANOTHER inexperienced Assistant Coach to the big seat? Another novel idea.

    Why wouldn't the Raptors just fire BC and hire you?!
    A second rounder can be really valuable if you don't have a figure head in Jim Kelly as we do currently. Smart drafting still makes use of second roung picks to get gems in the draft(Ginobili, Millsap, DeJuan Blair are good smart 2nd round pick players or going the undrafted route in Wes Matthews of the Portland Trailblazers or Gary Neal of the San Antonio Spurs).

    Consequently, DD is a head scratcher at the #9 pick(he does not have range on his shot(does not even have a consistent mid-range like Grant Hill), most of his points are by going to the free throw line(which is inconsistent at best as you don't get superstar calls in this league unless you are a superstar or one of the players David Stern wants to make a superstar eg Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook and Eric Gordon) and his ceiling without range as an elite defender a la Thabo Sefolosha or Keith Bogans, he does not have(he plays no defense at all lol)). Jrue Holiday would have been a better pick or trade out of the draft for a prospect that needs the minutes and change of scenery(at least you know what you get). DD's no defense reminds me of a certain player in Willie Warren that was a first round pick, guess why he fell out of the first round and a guaranteed contract into the second round and possibly undrafted? Defense and a commitment to defense were some of the red-flag issues he had.

    Furthermore, getting an "inexperienced" assistant(note the inexperience in emphasis, it means that an assistant under someone like Gregg Poppovich or Nate Mcmillan, very good coaches is anything but inexperienced, they know the system and the importance of defense under these elite coaches, they deserve a gig or an interview to see what they can offer) is not bad in my opinion a la Tom Thibbodeau of the Chicago Bulls(a second round playoff loss at worst for that team) and in the future, Brian Shaw as Lakers coach after Phil Jackson retires or Utah's lead assistant coach for Jerry Sloan when he retires too. Are you telling me the Lakers would want a full-time coach with different idealogies when the current system works? Absolutely, not, they will prefer to continue with the same system and Jazz too by making an assistant coach, an head coach. Last I heard, Tom Thibbodeau is not struggling with the Bulls despite being "inexperienced".

  19. #19
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    The team is a mess that I would not even know what to do. BC created this team, he prepared his bed, so must he lie in it. In my opinion, I trade Bargs, Jose, Peja, Evans, Kleiza, Barbosa for draft picks - even a 2nd rounder and press the reset button on this team.

    Consequently, get a good draft scout(from the San Antonio Spurs and OKC Thunder) and sack Jim Kelly, the director of draft scouting(a lot of gaffes in the draft, the DD pick is looking like a head-scratcher, how do you not know that a player has an atrocious defense like he has), take on some sort of large contracts with draft picks.
    Completely agree with trading Bargnani - he will bring the best returns in any trade. The Raptors will never win with him - defence and rebounding are horrible.

    Also agree with the DD comment. Would trade him too.

    The Raptors have to make some drastic changes to improve as a team. They have the worst team defense in the the NBA and it is a direct result of each players individual defense. Davis looks to have the most promise, Wright is solid on D, and Barbosa has been a pleasant surprise with his help D. Beyone that the Raptors make the same defensive mistakes as a high school team. If I see DD follow a player around a down screen one more time I am going to throw my remote through the f*&^ing TV.

  20. #20
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    Quote Stu jackson wrote: View Post
    Front Court

    I think Solo should be able to fill the Defense center we need, However he's still a few years away. So a rotation of Bargs, Amir, Davis and Solo should be one of the better front courts 3 years from now, I say keep Dorsey because hes cheap and fill a hole if one of them goes down. If they grow and gel as expected this could be a good front court of defense with amir davis and solo and bargs supplying the offense.

    Wings

    DD will need to be more consistent but he will get there patience is the issue here. Wright if he can start shooting a 3 I would keep he can be thabo, bonner type player. However I would look to trade for trade for someone like Terrence Jones maybe even Barnes but he hasn't looking very good at UNC. Barbosa and Kleiza seem like Band-aids for right now

    Weems undecided kind of on the fence but I would keep him for DD. just like jack and bosh.

    PG

    Bayless has the tools he reminds me of Nash/billups when they were younger in regards to consistency not the way he plays (well maybe billups).

    and calderon is the perfect teacher to bayless unless some miracle happens we end up trading for Nash.

    Thats about it except I would love to see BC trade for Nash and Carter, have Air Canada and Captain Canuck retire as raptors would be sick..haha
    Now if J. Wright could improve his three point shooting like Brandan Wright has done than Julian would become a pretty darn good player and maybe even able to start at the #3 and be highly effective.

    I was a big Bayless supporter when the Raptors obtained him from the Hornets however since the Raptors have obtained him and watching him play and listening to his interviews I think he has an attitude problem. He thinks he is a lot better than he is. He thinks he can take over an NBA game which he can't except for short stretches on a way too infrequent basis.

    In my opinion Bayless needs to have an a big time attitude adjustment and become more of a distribute first and shoot last PG. BD with the Clippers has had that problem but now with Blake and EJ doing most of the scoring and BD going into a pass first mentality as well as being in shape he is now playing as a pretty good PG
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