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  • #16
    Front Court

    I think Solo should be able to fill the Defense center we need, However he's still a few years away. So a rotation of Bargs, Amir, Davis and Solo should be one of the better front courts 3 years from now, I say keep Dorsey because hes cheap and fill a hole if one of them goes down. If they grow and gel as expected this could be a good front court of defense with amir davis and solo and bargs supplying the offense.

    Wings

    DD will need to be more consistent but he will get there patience is the issue here. Wright if he can start shooting a 3 I would keep he can be thabo, bonner type player. However I would look to trade for trade for someone like Terrence Jones maybe even Barnes but he hasn't looking very good at UNC. Barbosa and Kleiza seem like Band-aids for right now

    Weems undecided kind of on the fence but I would keep him for DD. just like jack and bosh.

    PG

    Bayless has the tools he reminds me of Nash/billups when they were younger in regards to consistency not the way he plays (well maybe billups).

    and calderon is the perfect teacher to bayless unless some miracle happens we end up trading for Nash.

    Thats about it except I would love to see BC trade for Nash and Carter, have Air Canada and Captain Canuck retire as raptors would be sick..haha

    Comment


    • #17
      My vote is for option 1...if we can get fair value for our players. Jose is having a fantastic season and there should be teams that would want to take a crack at him. If we can get good value for him (young players, or high picks) then that is something to look at and heavily consider. The same would go for Reggie, Barbosa (although his recent injury could stop this), Kleiza and Peja (although my preference is to simply see Peja expire, unless we can get a crazy deal...no lateral moves that add future salary).

      If we get a good any offers for Weems or Dorsey I would also take those. I can't really see us getting much for them though.

      DeRozan, Davis, Johnson, Bayless (future 6th man), Wright (need to resign this summer, unless he gets vastly overpaid), Alabi (lets see where he can get to next year), and Bargnani should stick around. And even still, if we get a godfather offer from someone for Bargs then I'm okay with that too.

      My biggest preference though, is to stockpile picks that are not protected for 2012. If we can get protected picks for 2011, that then become open for 2012 then that is good too.

      Most analysts say that 2012 is going to be a deeper draft pool then 2011. If we add with our top pick in 2011 (Kyrie Irving, Terrence Jones, or Enes Kanter) and then can add other talent in 2012 (Michael Gilchrist, Quincy Miller, or Austin Rivers). My dream is we add Kyrie Irving (amazing PG who gives us fantastic play on both sides of the court) and Michael Gilchrist (SF who says he takes rebounding and defense personally, plus from what I read he has a nice game near the basket...shot apparently needs work). Irving and Gilchrist were high school teammates and apparently are great friends...what a better way to keep them in Toronto long term.

      Ah...dreams are good!
      http://twitter.com/m_shantz

      Comment


      • #18
        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        For a second rounder? Common man. You think THAT helps the team? What a ridiculous thing to say.



        A head scratcher? Really? Unbelievable.
        We'll see if you're singing the same tune next year when he's the best pick out of that class.



        You want Bryan to promote ANOTHER inexperienced Assistant Coach to the big seat? Another novel idea.

        Why wouldn't the Raptors just fire BC and hire you?!
        A second rounder can be really valuable if you don't have a figure head in Jim Kelly as we do currently. Smart drafting still makes use of second roung picks to get gems in the draft(Ginobili, Millsap, DeJuan Blair are good smart 2nd round pick players or going the undrafted route in Wes Matthews of the Portland Trailblazers or Gary Neal of the San Antonio Spurs).

        Consequently, DD is a head scratcher at the #9 pick(he does not have range on his shot(does not even have a consistent mid-range like Grant Hill), most of his points are by going to the free throw line(which is inconsistent at best as you don't get superstar calls in this league unless you are a superstar or one of the players David Stern wants to make a superstar eg Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook and Eric Gordon) and his ceiling without range as an elite defender a la Thabo Sefolosha or Keith Bogans, he does not have(he plays no defense at all lol)). Jrue Holiday would have been a better pick or trade out of the draft for a prospect that needs the minutes and change of scenery(at least you know what you get). DD's no defense reminds me of a certain player in Willie Warren that was a first round pick, guess why he fell out of the first round and a guaranteed contract into the second round and possibly undrafted? Defense and a commitment to defense were some of the red-flag issues he had.

        Furthermore, getting an "inexperienced" assistant(note the inexperience in emphasis, it means that an assistant under someone like Gregg Poppovich or Nate Mcmillan, very good coaches is anything but inexperienced, they know the system and the importance of defense under these elite coaches, they deserve a gig or an interview to see what they can offer) is not bad in my opinion a la Tom Thibbodeau of the Chicago Bulls(a second round playoff loss at worst for that team) and in the future, Brian Shaw as Lakers coach after Phil Jackson retires or Utah's lead assistant coach for Jerry Sloan when he retires too. Are you telling me the Lakers would want a full-time coach with different idealogies when the current system works? Absolutely, not, they will prefer to continue with the same system and Jazz too by making an assistant coach, an head coach. Last I heard, Tom Thibbodeau is not struggling with the Bulls despite being "inexperienced".

        Comment


        • #19
          smushmush wrote: View Post
          The team is a mess that I would not even know what to do. BC created this team, he prepared his bed, so must he lie in it. In my opinion, I trade Bargs, Jose, Peja, Evans, Kleiza, Barbosa for draft picks - even a 2nd rounder and press the reset button on this team.

          Consequently, get a good draft scout(from the San Antonio Spurs and OKC Thunder) and sack Jim Kelly, the director of draft scouting(a lot of gaffes in the draft, the DD pick is looking like a head-scratcher, how do you not know that a player has an atrocious defense like he has), take on some sort of large contracts with draft picks.
          Completely agree with trading Bargnani - he will bring the best returns in any trade. The Raptors will never win with him - defence and rebounding are horrible.

          Also agree with the DD comment. Would trade him too.

          The Raptors have to make some drastic changes to improve as a team. They have the worst team defense in the the NBA and it is a direct result of each players individual defense. Davis looks to have the most promise, Wright is solid on D, and Barbosa has been a pleasant surprise with his help D. Beyone that the Raptors make the same defensive mistakes as a high school team. If I see DD follow a player around a down screen one more time I am going to throw my remote through the f*&^ing TV.

          Comment


          • #20
            Stu jackson wrote: View Post
            Front Court

            I think Solo should be able to fill the Defense center we need, However he's still a few years away. So a rotation of Bargs, Amir, Davis and Solo should be one of the better front courts 3 years from now, I say keep Dorsey because hes cheap and fill a hole if one of them goes down. If they grow and gel as expected this could be a good front court of defense with amir davis and solo and bargs supplying the offense.

            Wings

            DD will need to be more consistent but he will get there patience is the issue here. Wright if he can start shooting a 3 I would keep he can be thabo, bonner type player. However I would look to trade for trade for someone like Terrence Jones maybe even Barnes but he hasn't looking very good at UNC. Barbosa and Kleiza seem like Band-aids for right now

            Weems undecided kind of on the fence but I would keep him for DD. just like jack and bosh.

            PG

            Bayless has the tools he reminds me of Nash/billups when they were younger in regards to consistency not the way he plays (well maybe billups).

            and calderon is the perfect teacher to bayless unless some miracle happens we end up trading for Nash.

            Thats about it except I would love to see BC trade for Nash and Carter, have Air Canada and Captain Canuck retire as raptors would be sick..haha
            Now if J. Wright could improve his three point shooting like Brandan Wright has done than Julian would become a pretty darn good player and maybe even able to start at the #3 and be highly effective.

            I was a big Bayless supporter when the Raptors obtained him from the Hornets however since the Raptors have obtained him and watching him play and listening to his interviews I think he has an attitude problem. He thinks he is a lot better than he is. He thinks he can take over an NBA game which he can't except for short stretches on a way too infrequent basis.

            In my opinion Bayless needs to have an a big time attitude adjustment and become more of a distribute first and shoot last PG. BD with the Clippers has had that problem but now with Blake and EJ doing most of the scoring and BD going into a pass first mentality as well as being in shape he is now playing as a pretty good PG
            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

            Memories some so sweet, indeed

            Larger Photo of the avatar



            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

            Comment


            • #21
              Shantz wrote: View Post
              Most analysts say that 2012 is going to be a deeper draft pool then 2011. If we add with our top pick in 2011 (Kyrie Irving, Terrence Jones, or Enes Kanter) and then can add other talent in 2012 (Michael Gilchrist, Quincy Miller, or Austin Rivers). My dream is we add Kyrie Irving (amazing PG who gives us fantastic play on both sides of the court) and Michael Gilchrist (SF who says he takes rebounding and defense personally, plus from what I read he has a nice game near the basket...shot apparently needs work). Irving and Gilchrist were high school teammates and apparently are great friends...what a better way to keep them in Toronto long term.

              Ah...dreams are good!
              if only

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm all over tear it down for this season.

                What I mean is if the Raptors can't pick up young players or draft picks and other expirings to make trades work for cap purposes then they should let the contracts expire. The TPE will still be good at the draft so picking up a player like Gerald Wallace would be a smart move at that time. Picking up a player like that is only going to hurt draft positioning this year and possibily keep them in the dreaded 'fringe playoff team zone' for years to come. IMO this is worse than suffering through a couple of lottery/bottom feeder seasons. My understanding is the salary cap is calculated based on salary as of June 30 (if anyone knows different please correct me) so come draft time there could be financially strapped teams literally giving players away.

                The core of Bargnani, DD, Johnson, Davis, Bayless, Kleiza, and Alabi should be kept.
                Bring back Wright and Dorsey on minimum contracts if possible to round out the roster.

                I firmly believe Jose should be moved if it returns expirings, a young player, or a draft pick(s). Same with Barbosa. Same with Peja. Same with Evans. Barbosa and Calderon are obviously not expirings. Trading their contracts would save the Raptors around $17.3M off the payroll next season. That would take their payroll to around $27M plus whatever they get back in trades (if not expirings).

                The focus of the draft should be on getting a 2-way future star wing, first and foremost, and a PG, second.

                The TPE should only be used around the draft to get a player like Gerlad Wallace or Chris Kaman or whoever i.e. an established NBA who is borderline all-star or better - obviously the trading partner of the Raps would be cash strapped. Another way to use it would be to take back a short, bad contract to move up in the draft (much like OKC did this past draft). If Barbosa and Calderon are traded this scenario would not negatively impact financial flexibility at all which brings us to free agency.

                If Calderon and Barbosa are shipped out and little contract is brought back and/or the TPE is not used, the Raptors could be serious players in FA. Here is a list of potential free agents for 2011:
                http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...eeAgents-11-12

                If I am allowed to dream for a moment, this is what I would like to see happen:

                PG: Irving, Bayless, (3rd string)
                SG: DD, Corey Brewer, Justin Holiday
                SF: Gerald Wallace, Kleiza, Chris Singleton
                PF: Davis, Johnson, Dorsey
                C: Bargnani, Hasheem Thabeet, Alabi

                Evans traded for Thabeet.
                Wallace obtained with TPE at/around draft.
                Calderon and Weems shipped to Minnesota in return for Brewer and Flynn (Brewer re-signed as RFA, Flynn traded for a mid 1st round draft pick, 16-22 range).
                Barbosa shipped to Golden State for Radmanovic and 2011 second round pick from Chicago (less favourable of PHX and UTA picks).

                If Calderon and Barbosa were traded, Kyrie Irving would be a legitimate draft possibility as we are currently set to draft 6th. Take those 2 guys away and things could really be ugly over a 20-25 game stretch.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Kylie Irving is on everyone's list and we are not getting him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    draftedraptor wrote: View Post
                    Kylie Irving is on everyone's list and we are not getting him.
                    Did you watch the game versus WSH? With Barbosa or Calderon out or traded, this team is top 3 pick for sure. BC could very easily be a seller at the trade deadline.

                    Please note the Raptors are currently in line to pick 6th.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Perhaps picking sixth but our aim should be Terrence jones if anyone. I like fifth as it gives us enough balls to potentially get into the top three picks.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        I'm all over tear it down for this season.

                        What I mean is if the Raptors can't pick up young players or draft picks and other expirings to make trades work for cap purposes then they should let the contracts expire. The TPE will still be good at the draft so picking up a player like Gerald Wallace would be a smart move at that time. Picking up a player like that is only going to hurt draft positioning this year and possibily keep them in the dreaded 'fringe playoff team zone' for years to come. IMO this is worse than suffering through a couple of lottery/bottom feeder seasons. My understanding is the salary cap is calculated based on salary as of June 30 (if anyone knows different please correct me) so come draft time there could be financially strapped teams literally giving players away.

                        The core of Bargnani, DD, Johnson, Davis, Bayless, Kleiza, and Alabi should be kept.
                        Bring back Wright and Dorsey on minimum contracts if possible to round out the roster.

                        I firmly believe Jose should be moved if it returns expirings, a young player, or a draft pick(s). Same with Barbosa. Same with Peja. Same with Evans. Barbosa and Calderon are obviously not expirings. Trading their contracts would save the Raptors around $17.3M off the payroll next season. That would take their payroll to around $27M plus whatever they get back in trades (if not expirings).

                        The focus of the draft should be on getting a 2-way future star wing, first and foremost, and a PG, second.

                        The TPE should only be used around the draft to get a player like Gerlad Wallace or Chris Kaman or whoever i.e. an established NBA who is borderline all-star or better - obviously the trading partner of the Raps would be cash strapped. Another way to use it would be to take back a short, bad contract to move up in the draft (much like OKC did this past draft). If Barbosa and Calderon are traded this scenario would not negatively impact financial flexibility at all which brings us to free agency.

                        If Calderon and Barbosa are shipped out and little contract is brought back and/or the TPE is not used, the Raptors could be serious players in FA. Here is a list of potential free agents for 2011:
                        http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...eeAgents-11-12

                        If I am allowed to dream for a moment, this is what I would like to see happen:

                        PG: Irving, Bayless, (3rd string)
                        SG: DD, Corey Brewer, Justin Holiday
                        SF: Gerald Wallace, Kleiza, Chris Singleton
                        PF: Davis, Johnson, Dorsey
                        C: Bargnani, Hasheem Thabeet, Alabi

                        Evans traded for Thabeet.
                        Wallace obtained with TPE at/around draft.
                        Calderon and Weems shipped to Minnesota in return for Brewer and Flynn (Brewer re-signed as RFA, Flynn traded for a mid 1st round draft pick, 16-22 range).
                        Barbosa shipped to Golden State for Radmanovic and 2011 second round pick from Chicago (less favourable of PHX and UTA picks).

                        If Calderon and Barbosa were traded, Kyrie Irving would be a legitimate draft possibility as we are currently set to draft 6th. Take those 2 guys away and things could really be ugly over a 20-25 game stretch.
                        That would be best case scenario. I would love that to happen. Although I don't think doing all of that would be very possible. Especially Wallace, I'm not sure he would want to come to TO.
                        Also, trading Calderon would mean we won't have any PG. And trading Barbosa would really limit us, and we'll probably struggle to win 20 games, which does favor us in the draft. But I'd be pretty unhappy to be losing night in night out.
                        I think we should try and do a trade for Dragic, as he's unhappy at the moment and can become a pretty good PG.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          JoePanini wrote: View Post
                          That would be best case scenario. I would love that to happen. Although I don't think doing all of that would be very possible. Especially Wallace, I'm not sure he would want to come to TO.
                          Also, trading Calderon would mean we won't have any PG. And trading Barbosa would really limit us, and we'll probably struggle to win 20 games, which does favor us in the draft. But I'd be pretty unhappy to be losing night in night out.
                          I think we should try and do a trade for Dragic, as he's unhappy at the moment and can become a pretty good PG.
                          Yeah, I might have got a little carried away in my dream.

                          Any Calderon trade would need to return a PG. It would definitely cause the rest of the season to become extremely difficult to endure. The way I look at it though, the inevitable Jose injury would make it torturous and beyond unbearable.

                          Dragic might get what he wants and more if or when Nash is traded. Where there is smoke there is fire.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Did you watch the game versus WSH? With Barbosa or Calderon out or traded, this team is top 3 pick for sure. BC could very easily be a seller at the trade deadline.

                            Please note the Raptors are currently in line to pick 6th.
                            The current dip is because of injuries. get weems, reggie and bayless fit and we are in contention for the final playoff spot. We are bad but Cleveland, Sacremento and NJ are worse. besides selling Calderon and Barbossa while not replacing them would mean low attendances for the rest of the season.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              draftedraptor wrote: View Post
                              The current dip is because of injuries. get weems, reggie and bayless fit and we are in contention for the final playoff spot. We are bad but Cleveland, Sacremento and NJ are worse. besides selling Calderon and Barbossa while not replacing them would mean low attendances for the rest of the season.
                              I am a huge Raptors fan and will root for them no matter what and have much optimism for the future of the team - near future at that. However that does not take away from the sad truth of their record and their record versus teams with even worse than their own:

                              2-11 to start the season
                              4 game winning streak (PHI, HOU, BOS, PHI)
                              7-18 since

                              Half the season is over and reality is starting to set in. The Raptors are currently slated to pick sixth overall. Of the teams below them:

                              No doubt CLE is worse - 2-0 vs Cavs..
                              SAC has beat us twice and have a much tougher schedule playing in the West so overall record may not be a fair comparison.
                              NJ is certainly questionable and the fact the Raps are 1-0 against them eventhough they played bad means you probably are correct.
                              WSH is 2-1 against the Raps.
                              MIN is about on par, IMO.

                              When a team's winning percentage is 32%, 3.5 games back with 40 games left to play is a big deal and without a major trade, playoffs are highly unlikely. I disagree with the health of Weems, Evans, and Bayless making a factor. Bayless is the only one I see back next year of those three.

                              While CLE, SAC, and NJ may be worse, that still leaves 26 teams who are better - and only 16 playoff spots. And even that leaves the Raptors picking 4th overall. If Calderon or Barbosa are traded, especially Calderon, and a guy like Flynn is returned, the Raps are easily vying for the second worst record in the league - CLE are just so bad.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                ugh stop saying we should draft terrence williams
                                @sweatpantsjer

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