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Thread: Anthony Randolph for Miami's 1st Rounder?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Default Anthony Randolph for Miami's 1st Rounder?

    N.Y. is said to be looking to acquire draft picks within the next couple weeks. If we can get him for Miami's first, do you take him?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...e=NBAHeadlines

    UPDATE:
    Whoops didn't see Roughs post below.
    Anyway, this just confirms NYs interest in moving him for a pick.
    Last edited by Joey; Fri Jan 14th, 2011 at 10:54 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I'm very tempted to say yes. He is in limbo and is probably learning his lesson (a la Beasley). The ONLY thing that scares me is that Nellie and D'Antoni couldn't stand this guy. I mean can you find a more "free-flowing" type of coaches around the league that doesn't demand a lot of defensive effort yet still cannot stand this guy? Kinda scary. If we are rebuilding, perhaps this is the right move. Maybe BC really like to reclaim his career in TO but refuses to participate in giving NYK the main ingredient in landing Carmelo in the Empire State. If you remember, Beasley was being dangled to BC but didn't bite either. Would he fall for the same trick? Is TO's party reputation good for this guy (perhaps the same reason why we dodged Beasley to begin with)? I guess we'll find out mid-February. I think BC will be active in dumping the likes of Evans, Weems, Peja and even Calderon. It won't qualify as a fire sale but it will be very close to that.

    The Raps will close the year off with a summer league roster (and yes, Bargs will still be in it).
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    N.Y. is said to be looking to acquire draft picks within the next couple weeks. If we can get him for Miami's first, do you take him?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...e=NBAHeadlines

    UPDATE:
    Whoops didn't see Roughs post below.
    Anyway, this just confirms NYs interest in moving him for a pick.
    You won't get him for Miami's pick. For our pick, yes, but not for the Miami pick. That's a pipe dream. Randolph is way more valuable than that.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    You won't get him for Miami's pick. For our pick, yes, but not for the Miami pick. That's a pipe dream. Randolph is way more valuable than that.
    Is he though? The guys only played 14 games this year, and he's NOT injured. I think if the Knicks can't get a pick out of Portland or Indy, it may be the best option for them. We could also sweeten the pot with a second rounder perhaps?

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    Houston has apparently flirted with offering to trade New York's First Round Pick back to them in exchange for Randolph. Minnesota is also offering either Utah's Pick or Memphis' Pick. And Indiana and Portland are thinking about it as well. That is five picks for New York to choose from that would be a fair bit higher then the Miami pick that we could offer.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=6023466

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Is he though? The guys only played 14 games this year, and he's NOT injured. I think if the Knicks can't get a pick out of Portland or Indy, it may be the best option for them. We could also sweeten the pot with a second rounder perhaps?
    You're seriously undervaluing Randolph. He's way better than anyone who's gonna be available in the high 20's.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Yes but we still have pieces that they do not to add to it. Can pass off some of the TPE, which none of teams mentioned can offer.

    And, yes he's still young, but I don't think you can really 'undervalue' him at this point. He hasn't shown ANYTHING except for some good games in Summer League and a shitty attitude.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Yes but we still have pieces that they do not to add to it. Can pass off some of the TPE, which none of teams mentioned can offer.

    And, yes he's still young, but I don't think you can really 'undervalue' him at this point. He hasn't shown ANYTHING except for some good games in Summer League and a shitty attitude.
    You obviously haven't watched a lot of Warriors games in the past couple of seasons. Guys like him don't exactly grow on trees. He's got length, explosiveness and he's uber talented. He can play all 3 front court positions.
    There's a reason why you're seeing teams like Indiana and Minnesota mentioned as possible destinations for him - because those teams are gonna be somewhere in the lottery. The Knicks aren't gonna give the guy away for the #28 pick. You might as well offer up a 2nd round pick. I think Denver would rather take Randolph than a pick in the high 20's.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    On the contrary, I've been very high on him since he was playing HS ball in Dallas.
    But to say he's got "length, explosiveness and uber talent" doesn't really prove anything against my point that "he hasn't DONE anything in the league."
    Having 'potential' and 'uber talent' will only get you so many contracts, (unless your name is Darko) until people realize that this 'uber talent' and 'potential', is just a pipe dream. Especially with a shitty attitude like he's got. He's let the hype from "Summer League MVP" go to his head. Which I didn't even think was possible.

    And again, you've failed to acknowledge the part where I mention that we have pieces, usable pieces, that Indy or Minnesota don't.

    I like him. But his value in the league has dropped significantly. People know New York is desperate to get anything in exchange for Randolph. I don't see anyone giving up a Lottery pick for him.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    On the contrary, I've been very high on him since he was playing HS ball in Dallas.
    But to say he's got "length, explosiveness and uber talent" doesn't really prove anything against my point that "he hasn't DONE anything in the league."
    Having 'potential' and 'uber talent' will only get you so many contracts, (unless your name is Darko) until people realize that this 'uber talent' and 'potential', is just a pipe dream. Especially with a shitty attitude like he's got. He's let the hype from "Summer League MVP" go to his head. Which I didn't even think was possible.

    And again, you've failed to acknowledge the part where I mention that we have pieces, usable pieces, that Indy or Minnesota don't.

    I like him. But his value in the league has dropped significantly. People know New York is desperate to get anything in exchange for Randolph. I don't see anyone giving up a Lottery pick for him.
    He's 21. It's not like he's 26 and had had multiple oppourtunities. I think the most minutes he's averaged per game in a season was a shade over 20. And when he did get playing time, he put up some decent numbers. The kid is very raw. I can guarantee that there's no way you'd get him with that Miami selection. As for what we could offer New York to trump Indiana's or Minnesota's offer - we'd have to offer our OWN selection. Outside of the top-5, I'd give up my selection for him. He'd be better than anyone outside of the top-5 in this year's draft. The key thing here is that you'd be buying into potential. You're not buying into him because of what he has and hasn't accomplished so far to date.

    "And again, you've failed to acknowledge the part where I mention that we have pieces, usable pieces, that Indy or Minnesota don't."

    Please do tell me those pieces and don't say part of that Bosh TPE, because that's just BS. I don't think New York would take our offer over say a Minnesota or Indiana offer because we offered them a 2 million TPE.

    A team on the inside of the lotto like a #13 or #14 pick would gladly trade their pick for Randolph. I would.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Then we disagree on his perceived value. Which is fine.

    But in my opinion, there is NO way, New York gets a Lottery pick for Randolph. NO way.
    They're desperate and the entire league knows it. In my opinion.

    And just a couple of follow up questions:

    1) So BC trades our first round pick by the Deadline for Randolph; we then finish the year pretty horribly, get the #4 or #5 pick, BUT oh shit... we don't have it because we gave it up for a 21 year old. Who, by the way, has had multiple chances to prove his 'Uber Talent' and hasn't done so. You're cool with that? I'm not.

    2) You would trade Ed Davis (#13) for Anthony Randolph?


    And as for pieces? New York is Second Last in Offensive Rebounding. How about we give them the #2 Offensive Rebounder in the League?
    New York needs cap space. And lots of it. How about a $14Mil expiring contract?
    New York needs draft picks. Any of em. We've got ALL of ours going forward.
    Young talent? We've got some of that too.
    And yes, the trade exception. Which would allow them to go out and acquire extra salary in a trade (Denver?) without having to match that Salary themselves. VERY valuable.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Jan 17th, 2011 at 04:20 PM.

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    i say no. why would the raptors want to help the knicks get melo ? in there own division

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote South_Side_Jane wrote: View Post
    i say no. why would the raptors want to help the knicks get melo ? in there own division
    Very valid point. But by the sounds of it he's coming to our Division no matter what. Might as well get something for the trouble of having to play against him 2 more times every year. hah

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Then we disagree on his perceived value. Which is fine.

    But in my opinion, there is NO way, New York gets a Lottery pick for Randolph. NO way.
    They're desperate and the entire league knows it. In my opinion.

    And just a couple of follow up questions:

    1) So BC trades our first round pick by the Deadline for Randolph; we then finish the year pretty horribly, get the #4 or #5 pick, BUT oh shit... we don't have it because we gave it up for a 21 year old. Who, by the way, has had multiple chances to prove his 'Uber Talent' and hasn't done so. You're cool with that? I'm not.

    2) You would trade Ed Davis (#13) for Anthony Randolph?


    And as for pieces? New York is Second Last in Offensive Rebounding. How about we give them the #2 Offensive Rebounder in the League?
    New York needs cap space. And lots of it. How about a $14Mil expiring contract?
    New York needs draft picks. Any of em. We've got ALL of ours going forward.
    Young talent? We've got some of that too.
    And yes, the trade exception. Which would allow them to go out and acquire extra salary in a trade (Denver?) without having to match that Salary themselves. VERY valuable.
    The key thing that you're forgetting in all of this is that New York is attempting to secure a high draft pick for Denver for a possible Anthony deal. So why exactly would Denver take a pick in the high 20's instead of Randolph himself? And they probably would take Randolph instead of a borderline 2nd round selection, that is, if New York is unable to secure a lotto-mid round pick.

    As for us having pieces that are attractive in a deal with NY, who exactly are we going to trade? WHo are they exactly gonna trade? They need bodies to make a Carmelo deal and salaries and values don't match up well with us. The salaries would have to match up pretty well. As for NY needing expirings, they have in excess of 20 million in expirings next season (it becomes 20 million if Turiaf doesn't pick up his 4.4 million option for next season). In fact, their payroll for 2011-12 is lower than Toronto's, so I don't think they're hurting for expirings.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    The key thing that you're forgetting in all of this is that New York is attempting to secure a high draft pick for Denver for a possible Anthony deal. So why exactly would Denver take a pick in the high 20's instead of Randolph himself? And they probably would take Randolph instead of a borderline 2nd round selection, that is, if New York is unable to secure a lotto-mid round pick.

    As for us having pieces that are attractive in a deal with NY, who exactly are we going to trade? WHo are they exactly gonna trade? They need bodies to make a Carmelo deal and salaries and values don't match up well with us. The salaries would have to match up pretty well. As for NY needing expirings, they have in excess of 20 million in expirings next season (it becomes 20 million if Turiaf doesn't pick up his 4.4 million option for next season). In fact, their payroll for 2011-12 is lower than Toronto's, so I don't think they're hurting for expirings.
    Ok, I'm done with this. The thread was 'Do you do it', you clearly do. Settled.
    (But for fun, lets say the CBA gets figured out, Melo lets his contract run out and decides to SIGN with the Knicks. You don't think Walsh has thought of this scenario? Or for CP3 next year? $14mil off the books, is HUGE. For any team.)

    But can you answer my question, please?
    Do you trade Ed Davis for Anthony Randolph?

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Ok, I'm done with this. The thread was 'Do you do it', you clearly do. Settled.
    (But for fun, lets say the CBA gets figured out, Melo lets his contract run out and decides to SIGN with the Knicks. You don't think Walsh has thought of this scenario? Or for CP3 next year? $14mil off the books, is HUGE. For any team.)

    But can you answer my question, please?
    Do you trade Ed Davis for Anthony Randolph?
    Would I? I might.
    The thing about the #13 selection and Davis was that Davis wasn't scheduled to fall..at least not to #13. Prior to the draft, there was no way you could tell that he would draft that far. He was scheduled to go between 7-9.
    Let me ask you this then: Would you trade Patrick Patterson for Randolph? What about for Tyler Hansborough or Earl Clark? What about Rashad McCants or Brandon Rush or Antoine Wright? #13-14 picks are lotto picks yes, but they're fringe lotto picks. Once in a while, you'll have a deep draft with talented guys (Bryant, Nash were #13 picks), but this draft isn't so much. By acquiring Randolph with a low lotto pick, he'd have more talent than anyone available at that selection. And he's young enough. If I'm Indiana, I'd pull the trigger on it. Hell, if I'm Memphis or Houston (13 and 14 right now), I'd take it.

    The problem in all of this is that you're thinking you can get the guy for the #29 pick. Donnie Walsh would not even entertain that offer. If you're of the thought that we could offer Evans, the problem is.. who's coming back the other way? Evans and draft selection for Randolph doesn't work and the Knicks are in desperate need for bodies, so chances are, they won't be sending 2-3 guys to match up salaries.

    As for expirings, Felton is playing quite well at the moment for a fraction of the cost, so I don't think it's paramount for the Knicks to go out and get Paul. In addition, if that was to happen, especially with the new CBA, Anthony and Amare are going to have to take paycuts to make that work.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Ok, I'm done with this. The thread was 'Do you do it', you clearly do. Settled.
    That's also like saying - Lebron James for Peja Stojakovic. Do you do it? Yeah, but does it happen? No.

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