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Thread: The Corner Has Been Turned

  1. #21
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Kleiza is like Jefferson of the Spurs last year, shooting percentages were down and his play was lackluster, but look at what is happening this year not that the team has chemistry. Give him time to readjust to the NBA game and have the coaches and himself figure things out and all will be fine.
    This is where you are wrong my friend. It was not time that fixed Jefferson's game. It was Pop going to him at the end of last season and telling him he needs to get his ASS to Gym all summer long and Pop and his assistants will work with him ONE-on-ONE the whole time or he is gonna get traded

    Do you think Jay will do the same !!

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie Hellgate's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    I was a big fan of Bayless, as readers here know, when he first came to the Raptors.

    However, from what I have seen from his play and heard from him in interviews along with the fact that he keeps getting traded from one team to another it seems highly likely that he has a big attitude problem. This is not good.

    At this point the Raptors should look to move him next summer unless he get his head in the right place.

    He really has an attitude problem. When you watch him play and listen to him in interviews he comes across as "I am the greatest" and any problems that exist when I am on the court are because of other players.

    Another Jack but more extreme.

    However, since he is still young the Raptors may give him a chance through the end of the season unless Gaines can do the job.
    Bayless doesn't have a bad attitude. He just hates to lose.
    Last edited by Hellgate; Tue Jan 18th, 2011 at 01:40 AM. Reason: mis spelling

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie CalibreMC's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    The main point on Linas is that I don't think we should give up on him, I think he will still show us more than he has. The only wing player I would not be sad to see go is Weems, he is undersized for the 3 and is redundant with DeRozan on the team.
    He is not redundant with DeRozan on the team...he makes a decent bench 2 guard....Barbosa won't be around forever.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote CalibreMC wrote: View Post
    He is not redundant with DeRozan on the team...he makes a decent bench 2 guard....Barbosa won't be around forever.
    Except he is not really a decent bench 2 guard, what does he bring to the team other than a weak slashing game and an OK mid range game? He is not a reliable ball handler, not a threat from 3, not a lock down defender. He is good in transition, but that is only a small portion of the game.

    A good bench 2 guard brings one above average skill to the table and does it well to infuse himself into the game. Barbosa is a scorer, he at times can be relentless. AS a bonus he can handle the ball a bit and has been disruptive on defense, that is a good bench 2 guard. Sure he wont be around for ever, but I would be looking for an upgrade over Weems when Barbosa is gone.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    Bayless doesn't have a bad attitude. He just hates to lose.
    Okay lets say that you are correct.

    Then he needs to get his head on straight regarding his role on the team which is too firstly dish out dimes, not to be a ball hog. He has yet to show that he can shoot, career FG% of 40%. His 6.9 assists per 36 minutes are not near enough to make up for his horrible shooting.

    He doesn't shoot well enough to play the #2.

    His defense is not good enough to compensate for his horrible shooting and mediocre assist numbers to warrant playing as a backup PG yet alone a starter.
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  6. #26
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Okay lets say that you are correct.

    Then he needs to get his head on straight regarding his role on the team which is too firstly dish out dimes, not to be a ball hog. He has yet to show that he can shoot, career FG% of 40%. His 6.9 assists per 36 minutes are not near enough to make up for his horrible shooting.

    He doesn't shoot well enough to play the #2.

    His defense is not good enough to compensate for his horrible shooting and mediocre assist numbers to warrant playing as a backup PG yet alone a starter.
    However, what you fail to mention is that since coming over to the Raptors, he is shooting career best numbers, while playing minutes he hasn't really seen on a consistent basis at all in his career. 43% from the field and 35% from 3 are pretty decent, for someone that plays his style of game. Go look back at that Detroit game he won BY HIMSELF. Perhaps it'll refresh your memory.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Bayless has been off since his ankle injury (his most true PG-like game, coincidentally), and hasn't been at 100% since then. He also gas an offensive rating of 107 and a PER of 15.5. He's barely gotten any PT, I don't know how people can just immediately write him off like that; in the same way people thought DD was a disappointment only 1/3 into his sophomore season.

    And Bayless got traded twice, because his previous teams (and this one, so far) aren't willing to let him play through mistakes and develop.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    I find on the whole there's a disturbing tendency among people to be writing off young players because of mistakes they make, or their overall gameplan. The whole point of development, growth and getting minutes is so that these can be ironed out. No one really comes into the league playing perfect ball.

    To write off Bayless because he looks too often for his own shot, when looking for his own shot leads to 30 points, when he's never really played consistent minutes and has been traded 3 times...just silly. What would you do when you feel you've be underappreciated? You dominate if you can. That Bayless can go off for 30 points and draw fouls should be a light bulb for people that says, "fuck yeah!". If in a couple seasons he still hasn't figured out the PG spot, then sure, re-evaluation of his value is definitely warranted. But to cast him off because of the fact he hasn't "got it" yet is folly. Also, his attitude is so desperately lacking on this squad. I wish other players, Derozan especially, had his fire. I don't want to see guys, who just got their asses handed to them, be indifferent to their blowout. Players are supposed to take it personally. They should be offended by such losses, as Bayless shows. It's called pride and the Raptors are historically lacking.

    It would be easy to draw comparisons between Bayless and Jack. Jack wasn't right for the Raps, so why would Bayless be? Bayless is faster, more versatile, a better defender with a better attitude. He doesn't sulk, he gets angry. He's also younger and cheaper.

  9. #29
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    The development of the kids has been the biggest blessing of the injury woes the Raps have gone through. It would be great to see these guys get more playing time and work through their development during the last half or third of the season. After the loss to the Wizards, it became apparent that the team is off the playoff bubble and headed to the lottery. I don't want to see the team tank, but giving Davis, Bayless and Wright the opportunity to accelerate their development between now and April is the ideal. The trade deadline will be interesting. There may still be a temptation to load up for a more forgiving stretch of the season and see if the Raps can climb back into it, but I'd like it to be done with an eye to next season more so than the postseason.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    I find on the whole there's a disturbing tendency among people to be writing off young players because of mistakes they make, or their overall gameplan. The whole point of development, growth and getting minutes is so that these can be ironed out. No one really comes into the league playing perfect ball.

    To write off Bayless because he looks too often for his own shot, when looking for his own shot leads to 30 points, when he's never really played consistent minutes and has been traded 3 times...just silly. What would you do when you feel you've be underappreciated? You dominate if you can. That Bayless can go off for 30 points and draw fouls should be a light bulb for people that says, "fuck yeah!". If in a couple seasons he still hasn't figured out the PG spot, then sure, re-evaluation of his value is definitely warranted. But to cast him off because of the fact he hasn't "got it" yet is folly. Also, his attitude is so desperately lacking on this squad. I wish other players, Derozan especially, had his fire. I don't want to see guys, who just got their asses handed to them, be indifferent to their blowout. Players are supposed to take it personally. They should be offended by such losses, as Bayless shows. It's called pride and the Raptors are historically lacking.

    It would be easy to draw comparisons between Bayless and Jack. Jack wasn't right for the Raps, so why would Bayless be? Bayless is faster, more versatile, a better defender with a better attitude. He doesn't sulk, he gets angry. He's also younger and cheaper.
    Love it. Great post.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Some very good posts here. Patience is not a common characteristic around here. I'm not sure why that is. The idea of making the playoffs should be a distant thought. Let the young players make their mistakes. It is the only way to ensure the season is all for not.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    However, what you fail to mention is that since coming over to the Raptors, he is shooting career best numbers, while playing minutes he hasn't really seen on a consistent basis at all in his career. 43% from the field and 35% from 3 are pretty decent, for someone that plays his style of game. Go look back at that Detroit game he won BY HIMSELF. Perhaps it'll refresh your memory.
    Anyone can have a short hot or cold streak. EJ started off the season shooting something like 17 for 75 or .227 on his three ball shots. Now he is up to .340 and climbing compared to a career number of .370. Since that awful start he made 52 of 125 or .416.

    Basketball is a game of streaks including shooting streaks. Water and players number reach their normal level over a period of time.

    Johnson started out the season with a PER and WS/48 over 20 and over .200. Now he back to his career numbers which are in the 17 and .150 areas respectively.

    Yes a person can improve their shooting however in Bayless case he is shooting 14 of 43 under .330 from the field in his last 10 games. So has he really improved?
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  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    Bayless has been off since his ankle injury (his most true PG-like game, coincidentally), and hasn't been at 100% since then. He also gas an offensive rating of 107 and a PER of 15.5. He's barely gotten any PT, I don't know how people can just immediately write him off like that; in the same way people thought DD was a disappointment only 1/3 into his sophomore season.

    And Bayless got traded twice, because his previous teams (and this one, so far) aren't willing to let him play through mistakes and develop.
    You can't use injuries as an excuse. All players get injured and some play while injured and others don't. I don't recall ever complaining that Johnson's numbers were off, which they were, while he was playing with his back injury. That is just part of the game.

    It seems to me that half a season is not enough to see if there is improvement. A player needs to do it for a full season or even longer before one can say that yes that player has improved.

    Lets see what Bayless 2010-11 numbers look like come next April before we celebrate any improvement in his shooting.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie huskies2raps's Avatar
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    Let the youth movement prevail, I'm all for it, but the intent should not be to lose every game and try and finish with as little wins as possible. this is the same team that has shown it is capable of hanging around and even beating top tier teams - i still think the raps are one or two moves away from a solid team, and if it's on Triano to develop Davis, Bayless, and Derozan, then the rest of the work lies on Colangelo to get us those pieces
    Your ex came by; you can call me Jonas Valanciunas, cause I'm the king of rebounds!

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