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  • #16
    WJF wrote: View Post
    Kleiza is like Jefferson of the Spurs last year, shooting percentages were down and his play was lackluster, but look at what is happening this year not that the team has chemistry. Give him time to readjust to the NBA game and have the coaches and himself figure things out and all will be fine. Wright is a great short minute guy, I feel he should play off the bench ahead of Weems, but as a starter with DeRozan his lack of outside game with DeMar's lack of outside game will make it so hard on all the other starters that it would fail long term.

    Bayless is not ready to start unless you are really going into tank mode, Jose is a valuable player and makes the game easier for whoever he is on the floor with, Bayless is not there yet. That is not to say we don't eventually move Jose in a trade, but if he is on the roster no way Bayless starts.
    No Bayless is not ready to start but if we have committed to developping our young guys then who cares. DD wasn't ready to start last year either but it helped his development for this year. Yes Jose is better right now, but he has no place on this team moving forward. Develop Bayless and lose a few games in the process is a win-win for next year, higher pick and better bayless going forward!

    As for Kleiza I find a hard time comparing him to Richard Jefferson. Did RJ rank in the bottom 3 in several categories for his position last year? Causse I know Kleiza is thi year. Brandon Jennings didnt need a "practice" season when he came from Europe. To me Kleiza just doesnt fit on this team. He fit with our teams concept 2 years ago which was get any European willing to come here. We dont need a mini Bargnani who shoots a horrible percentage. At this point I'd rather have Belinelli since he could D up and slash to the hoop. If we're sticking with Bargs and DD we need to surround them with defensive stalworts. He makes 5 mil and Weems make 850,000. No contest who I would get rid of in that mix.

    Kleiza is the new Kapono, beat it!

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    • #17
      Its all about the D.
      I think its sad when your 2 best offensive weapons are your worst defensive players.
      Andrea has been showing some flashes lately but Demar, good lord, i cant even imagine how he gets to sleep at night
      crawford, 36pts. Udrih, 26. Young, 28. Tmac, 22. He cant guard anybody.
      I think we us fans can go on and on and on about who the raps need to get but it really wont matter, unless the current players improve.
      Kleiza, dont know where to begin. has the body of a bruiser but he elects to take Js.

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      • #18
        Yikes. I didn't actually realize just how bad theRozan has been defensively. I think I remember after each game thinking how the other team's 2-guard scored a bunch, but to see the numbers like that all next to each other, and next to the names they're next to (Udrih! Young! T-Mac!)...that's a travesty no doubt. Makes me wonder whether the wing defensive issues don't begin with Demar, rather than Linas...

        I suppose this fits in with the first idea about the value of Wright starting being that he can switch with Derozan to guard the other team's better scoring wing.

        Also, I think the Weems-hate has been going a bit too far...Anyone noticed that the Raps' stinking it up has coincided with Weems being unable to play?

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        • #19
          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
          Yikes. I didn't actually realize just how bad theRozan has been defensively. I think I remember after each game thinking how the other team's 2-guard scored a bunch, but to see the numbers like that all next to each other, and next to the names they're next to (Udrih! Young! T-Mac!)...that's a travesty no doubt. Makes me wonder whether the wing defensive issues don't begin with Demar, rather than Linas...

          I suppose this fits in with the first idea about the value of Wright starting being that he can switch with Derozan to guard the other team's better scoring wing.

          Also, I think the Weems-hate has been going a bit too far...Anyone noticed that the Raps' stinking it up has coincided with Weems being unable to play?
          actually, me neither. until i actually checked my fantasy pools where i both have crawford and tmac. makes me happy coz im winning my pools, but sad coz its at the expense of DD, hehehe.

          i actually feel really bad for the coaches and trainers because its a lose-lose situation for them.
          The right thing to do here is grind these players till they die until they get the defensive schemes. If a player blows an assignment, make him feel it. Bench him.
          But unfortunately, they cant do that. The team is undermanned as it is. You bench them, it affects the development.
          Its both on the player and the coaches. The coaches have to motivate the players enough for them to perform well into their capabilities, and the players need to realize that mediocrity embarrasses this team in the eyes of the other teams and the fans.

          The team is just one big mess.

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          • #20
            Buddahfan wrote: View Post
            The problem is that Kleiza is not an NBA SF. He is too slow to defend adequately on the perimeter and his ball handling is not that good. Kleiza is a very good FIBA PF but is a bit undersized for a NBA PF.
            Out of all our current players, I was really rooting for Kleiza. He's been terrific with Denver off the bench and the Worlds. Plenty of prognosticators saw him as a second and even perhaps the top offensive option of this team. He is just too inconsistent to be a starter. I mean the open looks that he's getting, the crab dribbles and the porous defence is atrocious. I'm not a fickle fan but seriously, Wright is outplaying him. He's dropping the ball big time. As for Bayless, dude needs to be a teammate. We got rid of Jack for this reason, now he's what, trying to do everything? Learn from Calderon as much as you can, he could be gone by Feb. 24th...
            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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            • #21
              WJF wrote: View Post
              Kleiza is like Jefferson of the Spurs last year, shooting percentages were down and his play was lackluster, but look at what is happening this year not that the team has chemistry. Give him time to readjust to the NBA game and have the coaches and himself figure things out and all will be fine.
              This is where you are wrong my friend. It was not time that fixed Jefferson's game. It was Pop going to him at the end of last season and telling him he needs to get his ASS to Gym all summer long and Pop and his assistants will work with him ONE-on-ONE the whole time or he is gonna get traded

              Do you think Jay will do the same !!

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              • #22
                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                I was a big fan of Bayless, as readers here know, when he first came to the Raptors.

                However, from what I have seen from his play and heard from him in interviews along with the fact that he keeps getting traded from one team to another it seems highly likely that he has a big attitude problem. This is not good.

                At this point the Raptors should look to move him next summer unless he get his head in the right place.

                He really has an attitude problem. When you watch him play and listen to him in interviews he comes across as "I am the greatest" and any problems that exist when I am on the court are because of other players.

                Another Jack but more extreme.

                However, since he is still young the Raptors may give him a chance through the end of the season unless Gaines can do the job.
                Bayless doesn't have a bad attitude. He just hates to lose.
                Last edited by Hellgate; Tue Jan 18, 2011, 02:40 AM. Reason: mis spelling

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                • #23
                  WJF wrote: View Post
                  The main point on Linas is that I don't think we should give up on him, I think he will still show us more than he has. The only wing player I would not be sad to see go is Weems, he is undersized for the 3 and is redundant with DeRozan on the team.
                  He is not redundant with DeRozan on the team...he makes a decent bench 2 guard....Barbosa won't be around forever.

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                  • #24
                    CalibreMC wrote: View Post
                    He is not redundant with DeRozan on the team...he makes a decent bench 2 guard....Barbosa won't be around forever.
                    Except he is not really a decent bench 2 guard, what does he bring to the team other than a weak slashing game and an OK mid range game? He is not a reliable ball handler, not a threat from 3, not a lock down defender. He is good in transition, but that is only a small portion of the game.

                    A good bench 2 guard brings one above average skill to the table and does it well to infuse himself into the game. Barbosa is a scorer, he at times can be relentless. AS a bonus he can handle the ball a bit and has been disruptive on defense, that is a good bench 2 guard. Sure he wont be around for ever, but I would be looking for an upgrade over Weems when Barbosa is gone.
                    Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                    • #25
                      Hellgate wrote: View Post
                      Bayless doesn't have a bad attitude. He just hates to lose.
                      Okay lets say that you are correct.

                      Then he needs to get his head on straight regarding his role on the team which is too firstly dish out dimes, not to be a ball hog. He has yet to show that he can shoot, career FG% of 40%. His 6.9 assists per 36 minutes are not near enough to make up for his horrible shooting.

                      He doesn't shoot well enough to play the #2.

                      His defense is not good enough to compensate for his horrible shooting and mediocre assist numbers to warrant playing as a backup PG yet alone a starter.
                      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                      Memories some so sweet, indeed

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                      “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                      • #26
                        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                        Okay lets say that you are correct.

                        Then he needs to get his head on straight regarding his role on the team which is too firstly dish out dimes, not to be a ball hog. He has yet to show that he can shoot, career FG% of 40%. His 6.9 assists per 36 minutes are not near enough to make up for his horrible shooting.

                        He doesn't shoot well enough to play the #2.

                        His defense is not good enough to compensate for his horrible shooting and mediocre assist numbers to warrant playing as a backup PG yet alone a starter.
                        However, what you fail to mention is that since coming over to the Raptors, he is shooting career best numbers, while playing minutes he hasn't really seen on a consistent basis at all in his career. 43% from the field and 35% from 3 are pretty decent, for someone that plays his style of game. Go look back at that Detroit game he won BY HIMSELF. Perhaps it'll refresh your memory.

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                        • #27
                          Bayless has been off since his ankle injury (his most true PG-like game, coincidentally), and hasn't been at 100% since then. He also gas an offensive rating of 107 and a PER of 15.5. He's barely gotten any PT, I don't know how people can just immediately write him off like that; in the same way people thought DD was a disappointment only 1/3 into his sophomore season.

                          And Bayless got traded twice, because his previous teams (and this one, so far) aren't willing to let him play through mistakes and develop.

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                          • #28
                            I find on the whole there's a disturbing tendency among people to be writing off young players because of mistakes they make, or their overall gameplan. The whole point of development, growth and getting minutes is so that these can be ironed out. No one really comes into the league playing perfect ball.

                            To write off Bayless because he looks too often for his own shot, when looking for his own shot leads to 30 points, when he's never really played consistent minutes and has been traded 3 times...just silly. What would you do when you feel you've be underappreciated? You dominate if you can. That Bayless can go off for 30 points and draw fouls should be a light bulb for people that says, "fuck yeah!". If in a couple seasons he still hasn't figured out the PG spot, then sure, re-evaluation of his value is definitely warranted. But to cast him off because of the fact he hasn't "got it" yet is folly. Also, his attitude is so desperately lacking on this squad. I wish other players, Derozan especially, had his fire. I don't want to see guys, who just got their asses handed to them, be indifferent to their blowout. Players are supposed to take it personally. They should be offended by such losses, as Bayless shows. It's called pride and the Raptors are historically lacking.

                            It would be easy to draw comparisons between Bayless and Jack. Jack wasn't right for the Raps, so why would Bayless be? Bayless is faster, more versatile, a better defender with a better attitude. He doesn't sulk, he gets angry. He's also younger and cheaper.

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                            • #29
                              The development of the kids has been the biggest blessing of the injury woes the Raps have gone through. It would be great to see these guys get more playing time and work through their development during the last half or third of the season. After the loss to the Wizards, it became apparent that the team is off the playoff bubble and headed to the lottery. I don't want to see the team tank, but giving Davis, Bayless and Wright the opportunity to accelerate their development between now and April is the ideal. The trade deadline will be interesting. There may still be a temptation to load up for a more forgiving stretch of the season and see if the Raps can climb back into it, but I'd like it to be done with an eye to next season more so than the postseason.

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                              • #30
                                jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                                I find on the whole there's a disturbing tendency among people to be writing off young players because of mistakes they make, or their overall gameplan. The whole point of development, growth and getting minutes is so that these can be ironed out. No one really comes into the league playing perfect ball.

                                To write off Bayless because he looks too often for his own shot, when looking for his own shot leads to 30 points, when he's never really played consistent minutes and has been traded 3 times...just silly. What would you do when you feel you've be underappreciated? You dominate if you can. That Bayless can go off for 30 points and draw fouls should be a light bulb for people that says, "fuck yeah!". If in a couple seasons he still hasn't figured out the PG spot, then sure, re-evaluation of his value is definitely warranted. But to cast him off because of the fact he hasn't "got it" yet is folly. Also, his attitude is so desperately lacking on this squad. I wish other players, Derozan especially, had his fire. I don't want to see guys, who just got their asses handed to them, be indifferent to their blowout. Players are supposed to take it personally. They should be offended by such losses, as Bayless shows. It's called pride and the Raptors are historically lacking.

                                It would be easy to draw comparisons between Bayless and Jack. Jack wasn't right for the Raps, so why would Bayless be? Bayless is faster, more versatile, a better defender with a better attitude. He doesn't sulk, he gets angry. He's also younger and cheaper.
                                Love it. Great post.

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