Also Rudy Gay was a better pick and is a better player. So is/was BRoy (especially b4 the knees) and Aldridge (beast mode lately, much better defender).
Last edited by minks77; Tue Jan 18th, 2011 at 10:59 AM.
I wouldn't have taken BRoy or Aldridge over Bargs.
Andrea has done NOTHING in his career. He still doesn't rebound or play a lick of D and has only this year become a trustworthy scoring threat on a team devoid of anyone else with a decent touch. If either of you actually believe this nonesense about Bargs being better than BR you are off your rockers and need to watch other teams in this league play, not just when they play the raps.
Getting back to Brand vs Dirk. Dirk did in an MVP but also played with better talent than Brand. As for his rebounding Dirk has never averaged 10 boards. In all fairness he came close 3 times (9.9 in both 01-02/, 02/03 and 9.7 in 04/05) but for his career (on a team that has often played small mind you) he's at 8.5 (7.7 this year) with a nice bump in the playoffs (10.9). You can't argue that his teams have done better than EB's but if you were building a team around either guy in their prime and believe that Defense Wins Championships, then you are looking at EB.
It's all a mute point as Injuries have destroyed Elton Brand and really you can't go wrong picking Dirk but in your original post you made it seem like a no brainer, which is isn't.
You need to stop calling people names based on their opinion. Thank you.
As for Dirk vs. EB, I could have used the comparison of Dirk vs. Eddy Curry, but figured I'd at least make it fair.
To say that Amir/Davis will be able to replace Bargnani's scoring (which is where all of this started) is such an oversite, and doesn't really take in the consideration the TYPE of player Bargnani is. NO ONE in the league can replace what he does on the floor. They may be able to rebound better then him, and score 20 points, but NO ONE can replicate what he does on the floor. That was my point.
I didn't call you names, I asked if you were nuts, there's a difference. Thank-you.
And you said you wouldn't have taken Broy or LA over AB. Now I'm going to just give you the benefit of the doubt on being one of the few people this side of the Atlantic who'd actually seen Andrea ball before the draft but even then you were drafting Bargs on potential for his size. Roy only slipped because of what turned out to be correct concerns over his knees and a lot of people, myself included, wanted Aldridge over the Italian prospect we'd never even heard of. You can't count out Roy based on this years injury as you were saying you'd of passed on BR/LA for Bargs at the time of the draft. Lastly, Roy was good enough off the bat to be #1, Andrea still isn't good enough to be #1 on a good team.
BArgnani doesn't do enough on the court to help his team win more than it should. You simply cannot ignore the Defense and rebounding issues due to his "incredible ability to spread the floor". It's a bogus argument to support your favourite player. Scoring isn't the biggest problem with this squad. DEFENCE...
"you are off your rockers and need to watch other teams in this league play, not just when they play the raps."
Thats a very general statement, that more or less implies I don't know what I'm talking about. I take exception to that.
I'm not just a stupid homer, that talks out of my ass. And Bargs is FAR from my favourite player.
But happy to clarify.
In hindsight, no I would not have taken either of them over Bargnani. Call me nuts. Call me 'off my rocker'. Call me a homer. I wouldn't.
Scoring is not our biggest problem, no, and I'm going to guess that has something to do with OUR LEADING SCORER.
And the reason BRoy was 'good enough right off the bat' was because he averaged 13 minutes more per game then Bargs in each of their first two seasons. Roy didn't have ANYONE to compete for shots with. Bosh tended to take the majority of our shots.
Anyway, whatever, I'm tired of this. Bitching about how you'd rather have BRoy or Aldridge does NOTHING to further the discussion.
You hijacked the conversation and turned into a Bargs hate-a-thon. That was not the point.
If you don't like the team we have, go cheer for Portland. Because there's no way you're a Raptors fan.
Fans support the home-team. Not bash and trash every little piece of it.
I'll give you that I responded emotionally largely due to the comment following yours but still. Roy was not DeMar DeRozan, he wasn't spoonfed minutes, he was a better, more NBA ready player when he was drafted. You can't just say he played more minutes without realizing there was a reason he was playing more minutes. Shaq played more minutes than AB in his rookie year for a reason and was a much bigger offensive force than Andrea will ever be.
Some guys are just better. Brandon Roy was/is and probably always will be a better basketball player than Drea.
And I'm not bitching about not having BR or LA you guys brought up the 06 Draft class with your statement about Gay being the only guy worth maybe picking over AB. Face the facts. I'm not hating, but I'm buying your BS about Andrea being the best player in his draft class.
the frontcourt of the 1992 magic makes the frontcourt of the 2006 raptors look like the 2002 spurs.
they were SHIT. i'm surprised they couldn't find a way to distort the time-space continuum and have shaq play 59 of the 48 minutes per game in his rookie season.. the rest of their big men were so bad that the impossible was the best option.
Get outta here with that BRoy talk too, that shit has been played out on this board for years now.
LEGACY LEAGUE - DEPTH CHART
(G)Kobe Bryant(6'6", 200lbs), 2005-06, L.A. Lakers: 35.4 PPG, 5.3 REB, 4.5 AST, 1.8 STL, 28.0 PER
(G)Penny Hardaway(6'7", 197lbs), 1995-96, Orlando Magic: 21.7 PPG, 7.1 AST, 4.3 REB, 2.0 STL, 24.6 PER
(G)Tony Parker(6'2", 180lbs), 2012-13, San Antonio Spurs: 20.3 PPG, 7.6 AST, 3.0 REB, 0.8 STL, 23.0 PER
(F)Elgin Baylor(6'5", 225lbs), 1961-62, L.A. Lakers: 38.3 PPG, 18.6 REB, 4.6 AST, 26.5 PER
(F)Shawn Marion(6'7", 220lbs), 2005-06, Phoenix Suns: 21.7 PPG, 11.8 REB, 2.0 STL, 1.8 BLK, 23.6 PER
(F)Alex English(6'7", 190lbs), 1982-83, Denver Nuggets: 28.4 PPG, 7.3 REB, 4.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.5 BLK, 24.1 PER
(C)Patrick Ewing(7'0", 240lbs). 1989-90, N.Y. Knicks: 28.6 PPG, 10.9 REB, 4.0 BLK, 2.2 AST, 25.8 PER
(C)Dikembe Mutombo(7'2", 245lbs), 1999-00, Atlanta Hawks: 11.5 PPG, 14.1 REB, 3.3 BLK, 19.4 PER
Last edited by Apollo; Tue Jan 18th, 2011 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Inappropriate Language
seriously, park it... this argument is tired as hell... roy vs bargs vs aldridge has been argued to death.. everyone has a decent point, and nobody is right.
I DID however say that using this wonderful thing called 'HINDSIGHT', besides Rudy Gay, there isn't really a clear 'RIGHT' answer for the '06 draft.
And ya, It's a well known fact that BRoy is literally walking on 'Bone-on-Bone'. VERY uncomfortable; as someone who has very little left myself, I can say that. Look at what surgery did to Vince and Tmac. And their knees weren't even close to the issues Roy is facing.
If he wasn't injury prone, then this would be a different discussion. But it's not. Bargnani WILL give you 70+ games every year. BRoy? I'm not sure you'll get 50+ out of him anymore.
I really do hope Roy comes back and dominates. The NBA is better with him. But I just don't see it happening.
Wait, isn't this thread about how crappy the refs are... :S
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