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Thread: ESPN: First-half breakouts, second-half threats

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Default ESPN: First-half breakouts, second-half threats

    Amir Johnson, PF, Toronto Raptors: It took him half a season, but Johnson is finally starting to bring a little consistency to his game. He's not quite the player that his per-minute numbers suggested he might be, but the 23-year-old still has a ton of upside and is averaging 10.6 points, 8.8 rebounds, 1.0 steals and 1.2 blocks in his past five games.
    To my knowledge this is the first time that ESPN has ever written anything positive about him. Of course they are often wrong so we shall see.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    At least it is good press!
    Last edited by WJF; Tue Jan 18th, 2011 at 12:28 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter blaze89's Avatar
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    ya gotta admit i was a bit worried about him at the beginning of the season it was like he was lost in space for the first couple of weeks but hes done solid work in place of reggie. maybe not as hardnosed D or rebounding then reggie but he can run the floor like a champ and he actually knows where the bucket so no complaints with him so far whatsoever.

    plus dont think the guy has missed a game with him being constantly injured and the rest of the raps dropping like flies he deffinately deserves some props.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    He's progressed well from his horrible start but I'd like to see more over all consistency. Here's to hoping for a strong finish. If he can finish strong the Raptors might have a good trade piece to use at the draft or during FA. If not, then they at least have a guy who should offer a spark off the bench for years to come.

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    Raptors Republic Starter blaze89's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    He's progressed well from his horrible start but I'd like to see more over all consistency. Here's to hoping for a strong finish. If he can finish strong the Raptors might have a good trade piece to use at the draft or during FA. If not, then they at least have a guy who should offer a spark off the bench for years to come.
    thats the main thing, he needs to keep getting his minutes to be consistent and stay on the floor. but like you said i dont think he'll ever be anything more then a good bench player and a spark off the bench so it be nice if he could get us something back in return at free agency or at the draft

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    He's progressed well from his horrible start but I'd like to see more over all consistency. Here's to hoping for a strong finish. If he can finish strong the Raptors might have a good trade piece to use at the draft or during FA. If not, then they at least have a guy who should offer a spark off the bench for years to come.
    I don't see the need to trade him unless an unbelievable offer presents itself. I do see Johnson as a part of the core moving forward. In the event of inevitable injury or foul trouble, it is great to have a guy like him to come off the bench. Good teams need good players coming off the bench. I think a spark off the bench or first big off the bench is extremely important, fits with his style of play and should not be perceived as an insult. Buddah took great exception to this suggestion - unfortunately. Johnson does have 3 full seasons under his belt (62, 62, 82 last year) as his first two seasons were only 3 and 8 games played in. That said, Davis is putting up comparable (Johnson slightly better) of late and he is 2 years younger and with about 200 less NBA games played. I think Davis is the future of the Raptors at the starting 4. That doesn't mean Johnson is not needed or should be traded away.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't see the need to trade him unless an unbelievable offer presents itself. I do see Johnson as a part of the core moving forward. In the event of inevitable injury or foul trouble, it is great to have a guy like him to come off the bench. Good teams need good players coming off the bench. I think a spark off the bench or first big off the bench is extremely important, fits with his style of play and should not be perceived as an insult. Buddah took great exception to this suggestion - unfortunately. Johnson does have 3 full seasons under his belt (62, 62, 82 last year) as his first two seasons were only 3 and 8 games played in. That said, Davis is putting up comparable (Johnson slightly better) of late and he is 2 years younger and with about 200 less NBA games played. I think Davis is the future of the Raptors at the starting 4. That doesn't mean Johnson is not needed or should be traded away.
    I think Lamar Odom, or Glen Davis are a perfect example of what a 'Bigman Spark' can do for you.
    Both would probably be starting on any mediocre teams ala Amir Johnson.
    Amir has shown he is actually quite capable when he is aggressive with his shot and could end up being a 'Big Leandro Barbosa' type, if we asked him too.
    Just come in and make, whoever is guarding him, tired as shit just from trying to keep up. And that way he can also play HIS defense as well, and not this bullshit we've been seeing where he's trying not to foul.

    Ed Davis and Bargnani could end being the perfect "Ying-Yang" Duo, if you know what I mean.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    He's progressed well from his horrible start but I'd like to see more over all consistency. Here's to hoping for a strong finish. If he can finish strong the Raptors might have a good trade piece to use at the draft or during FA. If not, then they at least have a guy who should offer a spark off the bench for years to come.
    He won't be traded unless the Raptors put him back on the bench, then his agent will demand a trade. Despite what many think Johnson is showing that he is a legit started in the NBA. I expect him to start for the remainder of this season if he is not injured.

    My forecast for him for the second half of the season assuming he plays all 41 games

    MPG - 32
    PPG - 15
    RPG - 8

    Contrary to what you kept saying would happen if he started his advanced numbers have not gone down and are about the same as they were last season.

    Age-------------23
    MPG as a starter --28 +

    His Ranking among Raptors regular rotation players
    FG% -------1
    TS%--------1
    eFG%-------1
    TRB%-------4
    Off Rating---1
    Def Rating---3
    PER----------2 Tied
    WS/48-------1
    Win Shares--1

    The reason that Triano has started playing Johnson at the SF is so that he can keep him on the court as much as Johnson's fouls allow which is now 28 + mpg as a starter and still find minutes for Davis and Bargnani.

    If Johnson goes back to the bench he will out of here. You can bet on it.

    What the Raptors could get for him remains to be seen.

    With the current roster Evans when he returns if not traded will come off the bench. Evans has no offense, he proved once again that he can't handle starters minutes without being injured and will be no where near the same shape that he was in when the season started.

    Evans is a career 1,200 minutes a year player, no more
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Tue Jan 18th, 2011 at 06:37 PM.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    He won't be traded unless the Raptors put him back on the bench, then his agent will demand a trade. Despite what many think Johnson is showing that he is a legit started in the NBA. I expect him to start for the remainder of this season if he is not injured.

    My forecast for him for the second half of the season assuming he plays all 41 games

    MPG - 32
    PPG - 15
    RPG - 8

    Contrary to what you kept saying would happen if he started his advanced numbers have not gone down and are about the same as they were last season.

    Age-------------23
    MPG as a starter --28 +

    His Ranking among Raptors regular rotation players
    FG% -------1
    TS%--------1
    eFG%-------1
    TRB%-------4
    Off Rating---1
    Def Rating---3
    PER----------2 Tied
    WS/48-------1
    Win Shares--1

    The reason that Triano has started playing Johnson at the SF is so that he can keep him on the court as much as Johnson's fouls allow which is now 28 + mpg as a starter and still find minutes for Davis and Bargnani.

    If Johnson goes back to the bench he will out of here. You can bet on it.

    What the Raptors could get for him remains to be seen.

    With the current roster Evans when he returns if not traded will come off the bench. Evans has no offense, he proved once again that he can't handle starters minutes without being injured and will be no where near the same shape that he was in when the season started.

    Evans is a career 1,200 minutes a year player, no more
    Another example of, "What have you done for me lately."

    The guy was given a 5 year, $30M NBA contract. This contract was then mocked and laughed at by the 'experts' and 'analysts' and even some Raptors fans. If he or his agent wants to go because he is coming off the bench, good bye.

    It tells me he wants to be a starter on a crap team - he doesn't care about winning - because in the NBA the only way he starts is on a crap team (yes, I realize that implies the Raptors are a crap team - but at least they are a crap team with a promising future).

    It also tells me he he is not a team player - if an established NBA player like Lamar Odom can play off the bench, so can AJ. You do what it takes to win.

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    Amir plays with heart and it's great to see. He's improved his range and is the guy they want to have at the line with the game on the line. He's getting better, he's young and an excellent athlete. He is a good trade chip with value but I hope we keep him as part of the core.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Amir plays with heart and it's great to see. He's improved his range and is the guy they want to have at the line with the game on the line. He's getting better, he's young and an excellent athlete. He is a good trade chip with value but I hope we keep him as part of the core.
    +1

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    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    I disagree. I don't think this guy has the jam to force his way out of town if he loses his starting position. As you all mentioned, many people around the league scoffed at the contract Amir signed last summer. A lot of us were okay with it because the Raps didn't really have anyone else to give the money to, and Amir's hustle play won him respect with a lot of Raptors fans.

    Sure, if the Raps decide to trade him, there would probably be a market. But don't expect a lot back besides a Travis Outlaw type, equally undesireable contract heading into a possible lockout.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The advanced stats are great for comparisons. However, much like +/- I don't put much faith in them. No one on the Raptors is untouchable if the right deal comes along. No one on the Raptors should have a guaranteed starting spot - including Bargnani. The most important stat is a team's record.

    Johnson in starting lineup: 6-19.

    Johnson not in starting lineup: 7-9.

    Overall: 13-28.

    Does this mean I am an Amir hater? Hardly. It means a good team doesn't have Amir Johnson starting. If someone said to me, "I'll give you $30M over 5 years. All you have to do is be our first big man off the bench and play balls out, all the time." I would say, "Sign me up."

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The advanced stats are great for comparisons. However, much like +/- I don't put much faith in them. No one on the Raptors is untouchable if the right deal comes along. No one on the Raptors should have a guaranteed starting spot - including Bargnani. The most important stat is a team's record.

    Johnson in starting lineup: 6-19.

    Johnson not in starting lineup: 7-9.

    Overall: 13-28.

    Does this mean I am an Amir hater? Hardly. It means a good team doesn't have Amir Johnson starting. If someone said to me, "I'll give you $30M over 5 years. All you have to do is be our first big man off the bench and play balls out, all the time." I would say, "Sign me up."
    I would take $5M over 50 years to just wash their socks

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Hey Naw

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If he or his agent wants to go because he is coming off the bench, good bye.

    It tells me he wants to be a starter on a crap team - he doesn't care about winning - because in the NBA the only way he starts is on a crap team (yes, I realize that implies the Raptors are a crap team - but at least they are a crap team with a promising future).
    That's exactly the first thing that came to mind when I read BF's post. The "if I don't start then trade me" routine would get Amir Johnson no where.

    Below is a fictional dramatization of that scenario:

    Jay: Amir, you're going back to the bench. We feel its the best place for you. You can make an impact there. Ed Davis is the future and now the present.

    Amir: This is outrageous. Totally preposterous. Do you know who I am? I'm Amir Johnson. My PER is through the roof and I look like Andre 3000, hey naw. I've got a truck full of shirts with me and Sonny Weems on them. Do you know how hard they are to sell now as it is? If I'm not going to be on the court long enough to collect at least two fouls in the first quarter then this just isn't going to cut it.

    Bryan: Ok, we'll trade you to one of the other 29 teams where you have no chance of starting.


    Jay: I fully endorse this.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 08:47 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Where are you guys even getting that idea? Amir has been playing his ass off when he's coming off the bench or starting and I've yet to see him complain once about not starting.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yeah, he's been working hard. So has Ed Davis. I think Ed's talent it going to move him past Amir sometime in the next year.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah, he's been working hard. So has Ed Davis. I think Ed's talent it going to move him past Amir sometime in the next year.
    Amir will still be the better offensive player. Davis's jumpshot/freethrow shooting are horribly ugly and has no post moves. He's also undersized so he wont be able to attack the basket all the time.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 09:01 AM.

  19. #19
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    He's also undersized
    Ed Davis is 6'10", 215Lbs. Amir Johnson is 6'9", 210Lbs. What is average size at PF?

    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    Amir will still be the better offensive player. Davis's jumpshot/freethrow shooting are horribly ugly and has no post moves.
    The Raptors didn't draft Ed Davis for offense. He's highly efficient when he does try to score. He's shooting 56% from the field this season.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 09:09 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    I would take $5M over 50 years to just wash their socks
    i'd take a six figures per year job to do ANYBODY's laundry.... hell, i'd do their gardening too.

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