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Thread: Rookie Ladder: Ed Davis

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    Default Rookie Ladder: Ed Davis

    Good to see Big Ed get some love from the NBA press machine. T Dot can use all the positive exposure we can get right now

    http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Good to see Big Ed get some love from the NBA press machine. T Dot can use all the positive exposure we can get right now

    http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
    He is a lottery pick from an elite basketball program, ESPN loves UNC, and he has NBA pedigree. He is also playing pretty good so far since being activated. However in my opinion if he was not a lottery pick and from an elite basketball program that ESPN loves and didn't have NBA pedigree ESPN wouldn't give him a second thought at this point given his overall performance through 41 games. See below for grade.

    Moral of he story: If you want favorable commentary from ESPN about a NBA rookie that is only playing average make a PC lottery pick.

    My grades so far for Davis

    Offense
    ---------------
    At the Rim ------------------------------A
    In the Paint other than at the RIM-----C
    Rebounding-----------------------------A
    Free Throw Shooting-------------------D
    Shooting other than at the RIM--------D

    Overall Offense------------------------C+

    Defense
    ---------------------
    At the RIM----------------------------------------A-
    In the Paint Other Than At The RIM-------------B+
    Rebounding---------------------------------------C+ For a big. He is 48th in Def Rebounds per 36 Min - Johnson is worse at 62nd
    Team Defense------------B

    Overall Defense----------B

    Games Missed Due To Injury--------------D

    Overall - C
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    Overall a C? Hmm..

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Overall a C? Hmm..
    Two things hurt him.

    1. He has missed a high percentage of games so far. It doesn't matter how good a player is if they can't play but are getting paid they are not helping their team but in fact are hurting their team. The fact that he missed all of those games goes against him.

    2. His shooting from other than at the rim has sucked

    That is why I give him an overall of a "C"
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    He is a lottery pick from an elite basketball program, ESPN loves UNC, and he has NBA pedigree. He is also playing pretty good so far since being activated. However in my opinion if he was not a lottery pick and from an elite basketball program that ESPN loves and didn't have NBA pedigree ESPN wouldn't give him a second thought at this point given his overall performance through 41 games. See below for grade.

    Moral of he story: If you want favorable commentary from ESPN about a NBA rookie that is only playing average make a PC lottery pick.

    My grades so far for Davis

    Offense
    ---------------
    At the Rim ------------------------------A
    In the Paint other than at the RIM-----C
    Rebounding-----------------------------A
    Free Throw Shooting-------------------D
    Shooting other than at the RIM--------D

    Overall Offense------------------------C+

    Defense
    ---------------------
    At the RIM----------------------------------------A-
    In the Paint Other Than At The RIM-------------B+
    Rebounding---------------------------------------C+ For a big. He is 48th in Def Rebounds per 36 Min - Johnson is worse at 62nd
    Team Defense------------B

    Overall Defense----------B

    Games Missed Due To Injury--------------D

    Overall - C
    Wait, so let me get this straight Buddah... You're saying that if Davis wasn't as good in highschool, thus leading him to a shittier college, and thus not being as good as he is now, then they wouldn't be talking about him and saying how good he is? Hrmm... ya that almost makes TOO MUCH sense. Great observation.

    If Kobe Bryant wasn't as good as he is then people wouldn't say he's the best in the game.
    I can make general, obvious, sweeping statements as well.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Wait, so let me get this straight Buddah... You're saying that if Davis wasn't as good in highschool, thus leading him to a shittier college, and thus not being as good as he is now, then they wouldn't be talking about him and saying how good he is? Hrmm... ya that almost makes TOO MUCH sense. Great observation.

    If Kobe Bryant wasn't as good as he is then people wouldn't say he's the best in the game.
    I can make general, obvious, sweeping statements as well.
    1. Kobe's father played in the NBA
    2. Kobe plays for one of the elite franchises in the league
    3. Comparing Davis to Kobe is insane
    4. How many rookes from Div II colleges or some mediocre Division I program that are not lottery picks and don't have pedigree that are averaging 6 and 6 in 20 something games gets this kind of write up. Name me one. Go ahead.
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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Two things hurt him.

    1. He has missed a high percentage of games so far. It doesn't matter how good a player is if they can't play but are getting paid they are not helping their team but in fact are hurting their team. The fact that he missed all of those games goes against him.

    2. His shooting from other than at the rim has sucked

    That is why I give him an overall of a "C"
    Interesting argument. If a player is injured they are "hurting" their team. Does that apply to the oft-injured Amir as well?

    I think if you took a snapshot of Big Ed's progression, factoring in minutes played per game since his return from injury, i would say he is at a B-/B at this point. He is only getting better and better. He has the right tough guy attitude, pack on another 20 lbs he can be a dominant low post defender

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Interesting argument. If a player is injured they are "hurting" their team. Does that apply to the oft-injured Amir as well?

    I think if you took a snapshot of Big Ed's progression, factoring in minutes played per game since his return from injury, i would say he is at a B-/B at this point. He is only getting better and better. He has the right tough guy attitude, pack on another 20 lbs he can be a dominant low post defender
    They have to have missed games to count as missed games.

    All players play injured, most of the time the public is not told about it.

    Davis can't shoot and is a below average defensive rebounder based upon rebounds per 36 minutes. He is currently only 48th in the NBA in defensive rebounds per 36 minutes and that is with most of his time playing with Bargnani.

    The fact is that Johnson has never shown himself either to be an average or above average defensive rebounder. The Raptors currently have no rotation player that is more than average in defensive rebounding.

    Davis shooting except at the rim so far sucks. Right now on offense he looks like a more athletic Reggie Evans. Shooting 55% from the foul line is not going to cut it.

    Evans has also oft been injured and missed games over his career. Davis has missed a high percentage of possible games over the last 12 months due to two significant injuries. So to me at this point I would compare Davis to Evans.

    At this point in his career he plays like a slightly upgraded Reggie Evans

    Those that love Reggie's game will love Davis game.

    Let me make it clear.

    I am rooting for Davis to succeed not miss games due to injury and learn how to shoot from beyond nine feet.

    I don't see him as a threat to Johnson.

    The minutes will work out as they work out.

    Johnson has been given adequate coaching and a fair chance to show what he can do. If Triano sends him back to the bench like a lot of Raptors writers/bloggers and fans expect then so be it. It won't be because he never had a fair chance to show what he could do as a starter.

    If Johnson's career turns out as good as Lamar Odom's I will be more than happy about it.
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 02:17 PM.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    1. Kobe's father played in the NBA
    2. Kobe plays for one of the elite franchises in the league
    3. Comparing Davis to Kobe is insane
    4. How many rookes from Div II colleges or some mediocre Division I program that are not lottery picks and don't have pedigree that are averaging 6 and 6 in 20 something games gets this kind of write up. Name me one. Go ahead.
    1. What does Jelly Bean Bryant have to do with this? I'm aware his dad played NBA ball. Thats not why everyone thinks he's amazing, or why he gets all the pub that he does.

    2. I am aware he plays for the Lakers. Again, not sure what your point is. He's not the type of player he is, because of LA...

    3. How have I compared Kobe and Ed Davis? Pretty sure I didn't. What actually happened, was I made a ridiculous, sweeping statement that is so obvious on the surface and in substance, so as to show you how silly your comment about Davis was.

    4. And if you read what has been said about Davis on the Rookie Ladder for MANY weeks now, you will see that not only are the Rookies behind him not that great, but the Ladder makes its very clear that his consistency is not what he up there for. Its for the numbers he puts up within that 20mins of PT, and because he is doing what many Rookies WISH to be doing, while having played in far less games and while having far less in-game experience.


    I think a 'B', maaybe a 'B-' is probably more fair; all things considered.
    But a difference of opinion is nothing new 'round these parts.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    1. What does Jelly Bean Bryant have to do with this? I'm aware his dad played NBA ball. Thats not why everyone thinks he's amazing, or why he gets all the pub that he does.
    half his press has been about rape and tasting shaq's ass. those championships are minor footnotes in his career compared to the glorious chapter that was "kobe, tell me how my ass taste"

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    1. What does Jelly Bean Bryant have to do with this? I'm aware his dad played NBA ball. Thats not why everyone thinks he's amazing, or why he gets all the pub that he does.

    2. I am aware he plays for the Lakers. Again, not sure what your point is. He's not the type of player he is, because of LA...

    3. How have I compared Kobe and Ed Davis? Pretty sure I didn't. What actually happened, was I made a ridiculous, sweeping statement that is so obvious on the surface and in substance, so as to show you how silly your comment about Davis was.

    4. And if you read what has been said about Davis on the Rookie Ladder for MANY weeks now, you will see that not only are the Rookies behind him not that great, but the Ladder makes its very clear that his consistency is not what he up there for. Its for the numbers he puts up within that 20mins of PT, and because he is doing what many Rookies WISH to be doing, while having played in far less games and while having far less in-game experience.


    I think a 'B', maaybe a 'B-' is probably more fair; all things considered.
    But a difference of opinion is nothing new 'round these parts.
    If he had played in all 41 games I would give him a B- also but I ding him for not being able to play because of the injury.

    Davis is only averaging 11 points per 36 minutes in only 24 games for half a NBA season.

    Of all the players in the league who have played over 500 minutes he is 198th out of 202 in points per 36 minutes. That is not very good

    The garbageman is at 153rd out of 202.

    I would hope that Davis can eventually average more points per 36 minutes than the garbageman
    Last edited by Buddahfan; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 02:43 PM.
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    4. How many rookes from Div II colleges or some mediocre Division I program that are not lottery picks and don't have pedigree that are averaging 6 and 6 in 20 something games gets this kind of write up. Name me one. Go ahead.
    gary neal, one spot ahead of him. went to towson, who are dead last in the colonial. not exactly UNC pedigree. albeit he's averaging 9 and 3 in 19 minutes rather than 6 and 6 in 20, but whatever. he bounced around europe for three years too, so he is the epitome of not hyped/not 'ESPN Pedigree'/whatever your point is (but he is also 5th in ESPN's rookie rankings on their awards watch fwiw)

    also your original post is an incoherent rant about ESPN and I just can't figure out what the hell that has to do with NBA.com, which is the source multipaul linked to.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    If he had played in all 41 games I would give him a B- also but I ding him for not being able to play because of the injury.

    Davis is only averaging 11 points per 36 minutes in only 24 games for half a NBA season.

    Of all the players in the league who have played over 500 minutes he is 198th out of 202 in points per 36 minutes. That is not very good

    The garbageman is at 153rd out of 202.

    I would hope that Davis can eventually average more points per 36 minutes than the garbageman
    If scoring points were something the Raptors struggled to do, then yes, I would see that as a big problem.
    But do you think Jay is telling Ed to go out there and get 20 points a game? No. I bet Jay has never even mentioned the Offensive side to him. Whatever points he gets is a bonus.
    Its his defense and positioning that make him a special player and NBA.com has recognized that.

    And how does a guy being injured HURT his overall grade for the year? If anything it should help, knowing that he has far less in-game experience than ANY other rookie on the board, and is still contributing at a higher level.
    Last edited by Joey; Wed Jan 19th, 2011 at 03:04 PM.

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    Good stuff. Davis' worst case is an above average role player. I think he has the talent to one day be an all-star.

    Speaking of future all-stars, Paul George is going to be a beast. That kid is high on the talent meter.

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    You can write all of reviews of Ed Davis as you want, but the fact is, we haven't even seen the kid play half the season yet due to early injuries, so how deep can you really dig into his play so far to give a grade as low as C? His offence, yes, still very raw and needs some work, but offence is not what the raptors are in need of - it is obviously D, and as soon as he steps on the floor, his presence on D is felt, and Appolo, I hope you're right about future all-star for Davis, because that would be a huge help to the Raps
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    I think he can be an All Star too. it is a BIG shame he got that injury and surgery in the summer. I would loved to have seen him come out gangbusters from the get go. Who knows how much the surgery has impeded his development as well.

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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    gary neal, one spot ahead of him. went to towson, who are dead last in the colonial. not exactly UNC pedigree. albeit he's averaging 9 and 3 in 19 minutes rather than 6 and 6 in 20, but whatever. he bounced around europe for three years too, so he is the epitome of not hyped/not 'ESPN Pedigree'/whatever your point is (but he is also 5th in ESPN's rookie rankings on their awards watch fwiw)

    also your original post is an incoherent rant about ESPN and I just can't figure out what the hell that has to do with NBA.com, which is the source multipaul linked to.
    Gary Neal is not averaging only 6 ppg in just 24 games.

    He is averaging 9 ppg over 41 games and playing for what could be the best team in the NBA with at least one HOF player and a HOF coach. So even though he doesn't come from an elite college he plays for an elite NBA team and gets plenty of national TV exposure.

    I guess I should have said elite college or elite NBA team that gives the player a lot of national TV exposure.
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    Agreed on Paul George's talent level, I'm glad Indiana is finally starting to give him minutes.

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    Quote huskies2raps wrote: View Post
    You can write all of reviews of Ed Davis as you want, but the fact is, we haven't even seen the kid play half the season yet due to early injuries, so how deep can you really dig into his play so far to give a grade as low as C? His offence, yes, still very raw and needs some work, but offence is not what the raptors are in need of - it is obviously D, and as soon as he steps on the floor, his presence on D is felt, and Appolo, I hope you're right about future all-star for Davis, because that would be a huge help to the Raps
    So tell me you would give Oden an incomplete too?

    I doubt that Blazers fans would give him an incomplete.

    It is what it is at this point. You can't wipe away missed games because of injury in evaluating a player. Injuries are part of the game. Players like D. Fisher, A. Miller who never or rarely miss games at add a lot of value to their teams because of it.

    I am hopeful Davis plays in all the remaining 41 games.

    As far as his shooting goes it too is pretty much what it is. He had a NBA father and a great college program to teach him how to shoot.

    In my book the "raw" doesn't apply to Davis. Lack of actual NBA experience yes but "raw" no, not when you have his background. There should be no excuses for him not being at least an average shooter from beyond nine feet. He has had plenty of opportunity to learn from the right people and so far despite years of it has not shown that it has made him an acceptable shooter from more than nine feet.

    Of course like I said he does not have NBA experience so his shooting should improve somewhat as he gets more of it, but raw no way.
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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    gary neal, one spot ahead of him. went to towson, who are dead last in the colonial. not exactly UNC pedigree.
    not to argue with you, but he was kind of a big deal the year he spent at Lasalle, before he got booted out and went to towson.

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