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Thread: Triano Finally calls out Demar and Barg's Effort

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    Default Triano Finally calls out Demar and Barg's Effort

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Finally? He's a professional coach, i'll guarantee you he's been saying it behind closed doors for a while, this is just the first the media has gotten a quote from him about it

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    Finally? He's a professional coach, i'll guarantee you he's been saying it behind closed doors for a while, this is just the first the media has gotten a quote from him about it
    I agree with you 100%. But using the media def has its advantages. Ask Phil Jackson.
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    I agree with you 100%. But using the media def has its advantages. Ask Phil Jackson.
    Using the media also has it's disadvantages. Phil Jackson can get away with it because his 67 Championships garner respect. Loads of coaches have alienated their players by calling them out in the media. I'd say most of the times it ends up backfiring.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Using the media also has it's disadvantages. Phil Jackson can get away with it because his 67 Championships garner respect. Loads of coaches have alienated their players by calling them out in the media. I'd say most of the times it ends up backfiring.
    Totally agree. Look how good it's worked for Ron Wilson..

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    its about time JT voiced his opinion openly... these guys feel there only job on this team is to score...these guys need to man up & realize that games can be changed & won on the defencive end just as much as on offence..im not sure benching after a miss cue is the best option with a short bench but.... maybe a three strikes your out rule would be OK... theres got to be accountability even on a lottery bound team..

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Using the media also has it's disadvantages. Phil Jackson can get away with it because his 67 Championships garner respect. Loads of coaches have alienated their players by calling them out in the media. I'd say most of the times it ends up backfiring.
    Different players need to be handled different ways. Phil Jackson doesn't manage everybody the same because he understands psychology. Jay knows the players far better than anyone observing from a far. He should know what will get a positive response out of his players by now and as such I have to take his side for this. I don't care if he doesn't have hardware on his fingers, the guy knows his players. He's been a Raptors fixture for what feels like eons now.

    When Sam Mitchell took over coaching the Raptors he handled everyone the same, which was in your face yelling. I can understand why he was like it, the team was soft and had some certain bad veteran influences who thought they had the right to dog it *cough* Vince Carter *cough*. He was giving them a wake up call. Tough love. As he matured he learned that he couldn't do this all the time and that it doesn't work on everybody anyway. Everybody is different. Everybody needs different forms of encouragement and different levels of pressure. I think he said as much in an interview after he was gone.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Different players need to be handled different ways. Phil Jackson doesn't manage everybody the same because he understands psychology. Jay knows the players far better than anyone observing from a far. He should know what will get a positive response out of his players by now and as such I have to take his side for this. I don't care if he doesn't have hardware on his fingers, the guy knows his players. He's been a Raptors fixture for what feels like eons now.

    When Sam Mitchell took over coaching the Raptors he handled everyone the same, which was in your face yelling. I can understand why he was like it, the team was soft and had some certain bad veteran influences who thought they had the right to dog it *cough* Vince Carter *cough*. He was giving them a wake up call. Tough love. As he matured he learned that he couldn't do this all the time and that it doesn't work on everybody anyway. Everybody is different. Everybody needs different forms of encouragement and different levels of pressure. I think he said as much in an interview after he was gone.
    I have no problem with coaches being tough on their players, but going to the media should be an absolute last resort, and it's unfortunately not with a lot of coaches. Don Nelson and Larry Brown are two long time coaches who tend to alienate players because they speak to the media too much. Jerry Sloan and Gregg Popovich are both hard nosed coaches who don't tend to air their dirty laundry.

    I don't have a problem with what Triano did, but some fans seem to want him to do it all the time, and that wouldn't work.
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    Call out is an overused bit of hyperbole these days. Jay simply indicated what he said to his players and acknowledged that with the injuries he doesn't have the depth to bench guys for ineptitude, indifference or a cold patch. If Jay spoke to the media before he did to the players and did so in harsh terms, that would be bona fide "calling out." I found what he said particularly respectful rather than harsh or embarrassing. If a player is too sensitive to handle that, there will are worse things that are said.

    Ron Wilson probably has issues coaching through the media because he's got a hair trigger on rant mode.

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    To be fair to Bargnani, his knees are not good right now and the last couple of games have fully shown it. Demar did bring it last night, so I don't know what the purpose of calling him out was - maybe to become more consistent, who knows?. The whole team fell asleep in the 2nd half last night. You could feel that there was no way we were gonna pull out that game. You knew at some point the Spurs would wake up.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    To be fair to Bargnani, his knees are not good right now and the last couple of games have fully shown it. Demar did bring it last night, so I don't know what the purpose of calling him out was - maybe to become more consistent, who knows?. The whole team fell asleep in the 2nd half last night. You could feel that there was no way we were gonna pull out that game. You knew at some point the Spurs would wake up.
    If his knees are bothering him that much, why did he play 42 and 37 minutes in the last two games? And if they're really bothering him that much, then he should REQUEST to sit because he's hurting the team. Amir Johnson's back has been bothering him for 2-3 weeks, but he still gives as much effort as he can. I think there was only one game when he didn't make a positive impact and he ended up leaving at halftime.

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    I should point out I started the season supporting the idea of Triano as coach as I felt he would be a good fit to coach mentor and develop the younger players. I was wrong. His substitutions, play calling and lineups are ridiculous and more likely hindering the development of the players than helping.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If his knees are bothering him that much, why did he play 42 and 37 minutes in the last two games? And if they're really bothering him that much, then he should REQUEST to sit because he's hurting the team. Amir Johnson's back has been bothering him for 2-3 weeks, but he still gives as much effort as he can. I think there was only one game when he didn't make a positive impact and he ended up leaving at halftime.

    EVERYONE on the Raptors is hurting right now, but it's not an excuse. Being hurt is not an excuse not to try.
    Who else is gonna play? Johnson's hurting too. Davis is playing big minutes, Kleiza's out. They're relying on Bargnani to score and do everything on offense. Try playing when your knees are messed up. I can guarantee that your game goes out the window.
    Last edited by MangoKid; Thu Jan 20th, 2011 at 01:32 PM.

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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    Jay should have been calling out Demar's passing - after the Spurs game the book on Demar will be to double him in the half court and he will turn the ball over. There were three possessions within about 3 minutes in the second half and his passes were absolutely brutal. However, my favorite was the Raptor's first possession - Demar had the ball on the wing, Bargs was on the weakside post, Amir or Julian set a screen for Bargs who game across the key to the ball. If Demar had passed the ball when he should of Bargs would have had a dunk or layup - instead he held if for 2 seconds too long and made a horrible pass for a turnover. You don't even see that stuff in senior high school ball - classic.
    Yeah, he's playing like a guy who's only played 120 games in the league.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah, he's playing like a guy who's only played 120 games in the league.
    The pass he made on the first possession is a mistake that would see you benched in JV ball. A set play was run with the first option being an entry pass to Bargs off a screen - pretty basic stuff - and he F'ed it up.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Who else is gonna play? Johnson's hurting too. Davis is playing big minutes, Kleiza's out. They're relying on Bargnani to score and do everything on offense. Try playing when your knees are messed up. I can guarantee that your game goes out the window.
    Bargnani played more minutes than both Amir and Davis. And Dorsey played all of two minutes.

    As for playing when your knees are messed up, I don't think you have any idea who you're talking to. I'm currently out with my 4th major knee injury since I was 20. And that's not counting the numerous times my knee(s) simply hurt or I tweaked them. I've played most of my adult life on bad knees. At my age, EVERYTHING hurts when you play. I've played when I couldn't walk up the stairs. I've played with torn ligament in my ankle. I've played with dislocated and broken fingers. I've played with concussions, a fractured orbit bone (so I couldn't feel half my face), a chipped vertebrae (I can't tell you how painful that was), numerous sprains and I always played hard, especially on defense. The only times I have not played is when playing would cause great harm to an injury (and even then sometimes). And I've never once been paid to play basketball. Obviously there were times when I had to alter my game because of some injury, but I never played with the lack of energy that Bargnani did. There were obviously things I could not do that I could normally do, but I always found a way to help my team win.

    Playing injured is not an excuse. Believe me. I never, ever want to hear that someone couldn't give full effort because he was injured.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bargnani played more minutes than both Amir and Davis. And Dorsey played all of two minutes.

    As for playing when your knees are messed up, I don't think you have any idea who you're talking to. I'm currently out with my 4th major knee injury since I was 20. And that's not counting the numerous times my knee(s) simply hurt or I tweaked them. I've played most of my adult life on bad knees. At my age, EVERYTHING hurts when you play. I've played when I couldn't walk up the stairs. I've played with torn ligament in my ankle. I've played with dislocated and broken fingers. I've played with concussions, a fractured orbit bone (so I couldn't feel half my face), a chipped vertebrae (I can't tell you how painful that was), numerous sprains and I always played hard, especially on defense. The only times I have not played is when playing would cause great harm to an injury (and even then sometimes). And I've never once been paid to play basketball. Obviously there were times when I had to alter my game because of some injury, but I never played with the lack of energy that Bargnani did. There were obviously things I could not do that I could normally do, but I always found a way to help my team win.

    Playing injured is not an excuse. Believe me. I never, ever want to hear that someone couldn't give full effort because he was injured.
    I played football with ripped ligaments in my knee, so I know exactly how it is to have messed up knees and to try to play through pain. So I don't think you want to be calling me out.

    You're not as effective when you have something bothering you like a knee injury and trying to play at a high level. It's not like you're playing pickup ball at the Y or CIS ball. This is the highest level of ball in the world. This team is such a mash unit, it's not like they can afford to rest Bargnani in order for him to recover.

    Then again, in terms of Bargnani, I can see his knees getting in the way on the offensive end because if your knees are not in your shot, chances are, that ball isn't as likely to go in the hoop. However, have we ever really seen him play with emotion or any real effort? Even when healthy healthy, it looks like he doesn't put out much effort on the defensive end anyway.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Bargnani played more minutes than both Amir and Davis. And Dorsey played all of two minutes.

    As for playing when your knees are messed up, I don't think you have any idea who you're talking to. I'm currently out with my 4th major knee injury since I was 20. And that's not counting the numerous times my knee(s) simply hurt or I tweaked them. I've played most of my adult life on bad knees. At my age, EVERYTHING hurts when you play. I've played when I couldn't walk up the stairs. I've played with torn ligament in my ankle. I've played with dislocated and broken fingers. I've played with concussions, a fractured orbit bone (so I couldn't feel half my face), a chipped vertebrae (I can't tell you how painful that was), numerous sprains and I always played hard, especially on defense. The only times I have not played is when playing would cause great harm to an injury (and even then sometimes). And I've never once been paid to play basketball. Obviously there were times when I had to alter my game because of some injury, but I never played with the lack of energy that Bargnani did. There were obviously things I could not do that I could normally do, but I always found a way to help my team win.

    Playing injured is not an excuse. Believe me. I never, ever want to hear that someone couldn't give full effort because he was injured.
    Sorry man, i know youre hardcore and all and always playing with heart, but you have to understand that these guys dont play just because they want to, or because they bleed basketball, these are professional athletes, they get paid to play. and i know youd probably say that they should be playing harder because theyre getting paid, its actually the opposite, the moment they feel something, they get worried, coz further injury can kill their career in an instant. if they cant play, they dont get paid. with us, we play in a gym, get injured, call in sick to work then come to work the next day. thats it. these guys have to suck it up. so i commend bargs if he is truly injured and still playing eventhough he's not playing to his potential. these guys play 82 games in a year, and practice sometimes 2x a day. give these guys credit. ive played college ball, and ive seen our star players get shots on aching joints, they are able to finish games, but the next day they literally cant walk because thats when the pain kicks in. i think its on the trainers to figure out if their players are really injured. if bargs is injured, i think the team should rest him till he's a 100%. i think he's doing more damage to the team and his body playing through injury.

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    Great points Tim W. As for Triano forget professional. If you want to
    Make a point as a coach bench your players when they play without a heartbeat. Short bench? Put in Alabi for bargnani anyway since it shows you are actually the boss. If Triano has been talking to the players behind closed doors they obviously carry no respect for him since it is not translating on the floor.

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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Ok Triano, you said that those two are not alone? Well I will put you in that lineup with the others that are not putting the effort in. You as a coach have to stop talking about taking people out for not giving it their all and start putting subs in that will give it their all. At least, if nothing else, will put a fire under their butts and keep the legs fresh for when you do put them back in.

    Use what you have wisely and stop pussyfooting around with your power. ARG that is so frustrating to me.

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