Was getting bayless so important that we had to pay $10 million on top of his salary

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

to get him ??

which is what MLSE had to do to buy out peja...

would it not have been a better option to not trade for bayless and peja, and save that $10 million and maybe use it to pry away a restricted free agent such as Marc Gasol ?

or any free agent ?

for ex.

if the raps were targeting (insert defensive rebounding Centre who could help hide andrea's lack of defense here) this off season, and the market rate for him was $50 million over 5 years....

the raps could have said hey we'll give you $60 million....

and it's rare for nba players like you can me to turn down that much more money...

i know the 10 million to buy out peja doesnt count on the books, but it's still $10 million that we could have used to sweeten the pot with another free agent...

looking back at the trade NOH got rid of peja, saved $10-$15 million, a decent big in DA with another good contract, and got a decent backup PG in jack with a very reasonable contract...

we got a guy who rarely looks to pass and when he gets to the line doesnt convert at a great %...

[AJM]

Well Raptors gave up Marcus Banks and JJ and David Anderson who owed about 13 million this years. Raptors got Peja and Bayless who owed 17 million this year. If we assume they paid Peja exactly whatever he was owed ( which I doubt), they only paid around 4 million more than they had to. Don't forget that JJ had 2 more years on his contract. So Raptors actually did a good job by getting a younger player with better potential.
Another is that I don't care how much money Raptors spend as long as they win because all I care is cheering for a better Raptors. Since we were not going to win this year, they could have paid 50 million extra and I could have cared less. It's MLSE's money not mine.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

They saved money in the long run and got overall younger.

David Andersen Salary - Hornets: $2.50M 2011 | $2.70M 2012 (T)

Marcus Banks Salary - Hornets: $4.75M 2011

Jarrett Jack Salary - Hornets: $4.86M 2011 | $5.22M 2012 | $5.58M 2013

===

Jerryd Bayless Salary - Raptors: $2.29M 2011 | $3.04M 2012 | $4.16M 2013 (Q)

Peja Stojakovic Salary - Raptors: $15.3M 2011

[Apollo]

Well Raptors gave up Marcus Banks and JJ and David Anderson who owed about 13 million this years. Raptors got Peja and Bayless who owed 17 million this year. If we assume they paid Peja exactly whatever he was owed ( which I doubt), they only paid around 4 million more than they had to. Don't forget that JJ had 2 more years on his contract. So Raptors actually did a good job by getting a younger player with better potential.
Another is that I don't care how much money Raptors spend as long as they win because all I care is cheering for a better Raptors. Since we were not going to win this year, they could have paid 50 million extra and I could have cared less. It's MLSE's money not mine.

Good post. I am not a stakeholder and as such all I care about is the cap number. The trade gives the Raptors more flexibility. I don't care what they gave Peja to walk away, it's not my money and if anything it's only going to help the team i cheer for get better faster.

[Tim W.]

I think what everyone is trying to say is the premise of the thread is completely and utterly wrong. The only way this whole thing can be bad is if Jack suddenly turns into an All-Star and Bayless turns into a cancer. Quite frankly, I don't foresee either of those happening.

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

I think what everyone is trying to say is the premise of the thread is completely and utterly wrong. The only way this whole thing can be bad is if Jack suddenly turns into an All-Star and Bayless turns into a cancer. Quite frankly, I don't foresee either of those happening.

umm actually no, we could have just let banks expire, and definitely could have traded JJ... that way we wouldnt be out $10 mil for pretty much a backup pg at best...

couldnt that money be used to sign someone ?

the premise in question is asking if bayless is worth his salary PLUS the $10 million it costs on top to get him ?

which i disagree, and say bayless is not worth it, and this was another bad trade by the snake oil man.

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

Well Raptors gave up Marcus Banks and JJ and David Anderson who owed about 13 million this years. Raptors got Peja and Bayless who owed 17 million this year. If we assume they paid Peja exactly whatever he was owed ( which I doubt), they only paid around 4 million more than they had to. Don't forget that JJ had 2 more years on his contract. So Raptors actually did a good job by getting a younger player with better potential.
Another is that I don't care how much money Raptors spend as long as they win because all I care is cheering for a better Raptors. Since we were not going to win this year, they could have paid 50 million extra and I could have cared less. It's MLSE's money not mine.

Good post. I am not a stakeholder and as such all I care about is the cap number. The trade gives the Raptors more flexibility. I don't care what they gave Peja to walk away, it's not my money and if anything it's only going to help the team i cheer for get better faster.

yea but if you take that a step further, and the owners are not happy with how much money the team made them, what do they usually do ?

they raise ticket prices, merchandise costs more, food and drinks at the arena cost more...

im not saying this one move is going to do that, but as a fan, its in your best interest if the team isnt wasting $10 million dollars on a player like JB

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

They saved money in the long run and got overall younger.

David Andersen Salary - Hornets: $2.50M 2011 | $2.70M 2012 (T)

Marcus Banks Salary - Hornets: $4.75M 2011

Jarrett Jack Salary - Hornets: $4.86M 2011 | $5.22M 2012 | $5.58M 2013

===

Jerryd Bayless Salary - Raptors: $2.29M 2011 | $3.04M 2012 | $4.16M 2013 (Q)

Peja Stojakovic Salary - Raptors: $15.3M 2011

is it unreasonable to suggest that jack could've been traded ?

and if you traded jack, and let banks expire, the total cost is a lot less wouldn't you agree ?

the point is, 10 million dollars on top of his salary went into taking a risk on jarryd bayless.

[Grrr]

they raise ticket prices anyway... regardless of what they spend/earn....who cares how they spend THEIR money if it does not effect the cap (negatively)...

[madeupid25]

"Was getting bayless so important that we had to pay $10 million on top of his salary?"

We? But no, not my money, if it yields a solid rotation player (hopefully a starter), money well spent in my view.

Look at the Jays signing up Cuban prospects and giving up nothing more than cash. When you have a wealthy organization (Rogers, MLSE), you need to exploit that advantage to gradually improve your team(s).

[Tim W.]

umm actually no, we could have just let banks expire, and definitely could have traded JJ... that way we wouldnt be out $10 mil for pretty much a backup pg at best...

couldnt that money be used to sign someone ?

the premise in question is asking if bayless is worth his salary PLUS the $10 million it costs on top to get him ?

which i disagree, and say bayless is not worth it, and this was another bad trade by the snake oil man.

I don't think you understand how NBA economics work. Let's break it down.

Before the trade, the Raptors were paying...

Jarret Jack $4.86 million (with $10.8 million remaining over the next two years)
Marcus Banks $4.72 million
David Andersen $2.5 million

That's $12.8 million this year, plus another $10.8 over the next two or $5.22 million next season and $5.58 the season after that, for a total of $23.6 million in guaranteed money.

After the trade, the Raptors are paying...

Peja Stojakovic $14.896 million
Jerryd Bayless $2.292 (with $3.042 million remaining next season)

That's a total of $17.188 million this season and $3.042 next season for a total of $20.23 million guaranteed.

So by making the trade, the Raptors are paying out $4.388 more this season, but saving $3.37 million in total. More importantly it gives the Raptors $2.178 million more to spend this summer and $5.58 more to spend next summer.

The amount the Raptors spent to buyout Peja has absolutely no bearing on how much they can spend this summer. Peja's contract would have expired this summer, anyway, so who the Raptors pay this season is irrelevant to how much they have to spend this summer.

IF there is a free agency period, which is doubtful at this point because of a possible lockout, and the CBA is similar to what it is now, then the Raptors will be more under the cap than they would have had they not made the deal. Barring any more deals, the Raptors will have a payroll of approximately $45 million next summer. Had they not done the trade the payroll would have been approximately $47 million. Like I said, that's $2 million more the Raptors can spend on a free agent, if they wish to.

It's certainly not a home run, but you can't argue that the trade doesn't benefit the Raptors.

[Matt52]

This has already been discussed:

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...ll=1#post60705

Obviously math is not many RR posters strong suit. But looking through the replies it is good to see the majority seem to get it. My calculations show the moved saved the Raps money long term - $7M plus whatever DAL sends with Ajinca if the trade goes through. Also the fatal flaw in this argument is that if JJ/Andersen/Banks were not traded, MLSE is still paying their contracts this year - and with JJ for 2 more seasons.

Also, people forget NOH gave up a top 7 protected lottery pick to get Bayless in the first place. It is clear more teams in the league think highly of him than just BC and the Raptors.

[heinz57]

personally, i dont know a whole lot about contracts, and salaries, and TPEs and whatnot... hell, i keep seeing BYC in regards to bargs, and have not a single clue what that means.

so i tend to keep my distance from those kinds of conversations.. definitely wouldn't start a retarded thread about it... just sayin

i'm admittedly stupid about these kinds of things, and saw the simple grade school math problems in here

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

I don't think you understand how NBA economics work. Let's break it down.

Before the trade, the Raptors were paying...

Jarret Jack $4.86 million (with $10.8 million remaining over the next two years)
Marcus Banks $4.72 million
David Andersen $2.5 million

That's $12.8 million this year, plus another $10.8 over the next two or $5.22 million next season and $5.58 the season after that, for a total of $23.6 million in guaranteed money.

After the trade, the Raptors are paying...

Peja Stojakovic $14.896 million
Jerryd Bayless $2.292 (with $3.042 million remaining next season)

That's a total of $17.188 million this season and $3.042 next season for a total of $20.23 million guaranteed.

So by making the trade, the Raptors are paying out $4.388 more this season, but saving $3.37 million in total. More importantly it gives the Raptors $2.178 million more to spend this summer and $5.58 more to spend next summer.

The amount the Raptors spent to buyout Peja has absolutely no bearing on how much they can spend this summer. Peja's contract would have expired this summer, anyway, so who the Raptors pay this season is irrelevant to how much they have to spend this summer.

IF there is a free agency period, which is doubtful at this point because of a possible lockout, and the CBA is similar to what it is now, then the Raptors will be more under the cap than they would have had they not made the deal. Barring any more deals, the Raptors will have a payroll of approximately $45 million next summer. Had they not done the trade the payroll would have been approximately $47 million. Like I said, that's $2 million more the Raptors can spend on a free agent, if they wish to.

It's certainly not a home run, but you can't argue that the trade doesn't benefit the Raptors.

i dont think you understand that $10 million off the books or on the books is still $10 million dollars the ownership had to spend...

the question is simply asking could this $10 million not have gone to maybe overpay a free agent that we were interested in signing.

and like i have said before, it is not unreasonable to think jack couldnt have just been traded for a future pick or another expiring...

you think MLSE will blow $10 million on this AND spend more money to get a free agent ?

MLSE is a business, tim... $10 million dollars even though it doesnt count towards the cap, still affects the board of director's willingness to spend more money

[UwanSUMhotFYUH]

The amount the Raptors spent to buyout Peja has absolutely no bearing on how much they can spend this summer. Peja's contract would have expired this summer, anyway, so who the Raptors pay this season is irrelevant to how much they have to spend this summer.

not talking about money that counts toward the cap. im talking about the money the organization (corporation) is willing to spend on the team...

that's the difference... you can make as many condescending comments as you like, but please try to remember that we're NOT talking about the salaries or money that counts toward the cap....we're talking about money the owners had to spend out of their own budget on what to spend to make the raptors better.

[joey_hesketh]

Dude... drop it. No one agrees with you and no one thinks you are a correct.
This has been discussed ad nauseum.
What do you care what they spend if it doesn't affect the cap? It's not like MLSE says 'we'll only spend $30mil, and then you're SOL.' You spend what you have to to make the team better. I, for one, appreciate that there hasn't been any griping about it from the OWNER. So why are you?

It's a business, as you said, right?
Ever heard the saying 'you gotta spend money to make money'?

[Matt52]

Dude... drop it. No one agrees with you and no one thinks you are a correct.
This has been discussed ad nauseum.
What do you care what they spend if it doesn't affect the cap? It's not like MLSE says 'we'll only spend $30mil, and then you're SOL.' You spend what you have to to make the team better. I, for one, appreciate that there hasn't been any griping about it from the OWNER. So why are you?

Good point. I've also shown this trade SAVED the Raptors approximately $7M. It might not be this year but for someone who cares so much about the bottom line of MLSE, $7M is still $7M.

[Tim W.]

not talking about money that counts toward the cap. im talking about the money the organization (corporation) is willing to spend on the team...

that's the difference... you can make as many condescending comments as you like, but please try to remember that we're NOT talking about the salaries or money that counts toward the cap....we're talking about money the owners had to spend out of their own budget on what to spend to make the raptors better.

Where exactly are you getting this $10 million number from? The payout to Peja? They were going to be paying that whether or not they bought him out or even whether or not they made the trade. They are not paying out $10 million EXTRA. They are simply paying Peja's salary all at once rather than over the next 3 months.

And since the Raptors actually SAVED money overall, I would think they would be more willing to spend extra money this summer.

If they don't make the trade, then they are paying both Banks and Andersen, as well as Jack.

Before you call me condescending, try rereading my last comment a bit closer. You'll realize that the trade actually helps the team financially.

You seem to have made up your mind about the trade before knowing all the details and now won't even listen to the details because you've made up your mind.

Bottom line: The Raptors weren't going to sign a free agent before the end of the season, so taking on extra salary this season doesn't hurt them, especially since they saved money long term. If you're worried about how much the Raptor organization has set aside to spend, then obviously this trade helps, since it frees up money overall, and over the next two seasons. And that's not even mentioning the fact that it brings the Raptors farther under the cap.

[heinz57]

[joey_hesketh]

Win.