Showing off Calderon?

[albertan_10]

The Roll Call and writeup this morning both had comments that the Raptors were showcasing Calderon as a possible trade come february. Does anyone else think that's a good idea? Maybe the plan is to put Bayless in the starting role and then draft a PG

[Tim W.]

I think it's certainly possible, but that was simply the writer's opinion. I wouldn't "bank on it" as he suggested. Trading Calderon would leave a huge gaping hole at the PG position unless they get a PG back. I'm certainly not against trading Calderon if it makes the team better in the long run, but trading him for the sake of trading him isn't smart.

[knickz]

i think they are...you all know i love jose but its clear they are going to trade him

[WhatWhat]

Does anyone else think that's a good idea?

Yes, because the combo of him and Bargs is savagely raping our defense and creating a toxic culture. I really, really fail to see how Calderon's ability to run an offense supersedes his huge defensive problems. And when Bayless has started, he's put up big numbers and scored efficiently. He should be starting, because you know, Irving isn't in the bag for us and he's actually looked like a legit, good starting PG...when he started.

[Tim W.]

Yes, because the combo of him and Bargs is savagely raping our defense and creating a toxic culture. I really, really fail to see how Calderon's ability to run an offense supersedes his huge defensive problems. And when Bayless has started, he's put up big numbers and scored efficiently. He should be starting, because you know, Irving isn't in the bag for us and he's actually looked like a legit, good starting PG...when he started.

Calderon has an overall positive effect on the team. Besides, does Bargnani's ability to score supersede his huge defensive and rebounding problems? It seems to me that if you're going to trade one, you trade the one who has of a more negative effect on the team and has more trade value.

And Bayless has started 7 games. I wouldn't start making judgements on him just yet.

[Raptor4Ever]

Jose and AB are the best players that Raptor has. Do they have flaws? Yes, they both do. Are they starters in a championship team? Noway !! But look at the rest of the team.

Amir Johnson who can not dribble pass a snail and does not even have one post move, Money Weems , DD with his handling of the ball and ...

BC has done a great job of demoting this team to the level of D-League and this is what we have left with.

[WhatWhat]

Calderon has an overall positive effect on the team. Besides, does Bargnani's ability to score supersede his huge defensive and rebounding problems? It seems to me that if you're going to trade one, you trade the one who has of a more negative effect on the team and has more trade value.

And Bayless has started 7 games. I wouldn't start making judgements on him just yet.

But that's the point: Neither of their perceived benefits outweigh their negatives. Both of Bargs and Calderon have to go. The fact that neither of them are getting punished for the very, very poor defensive play is sending a horrible message to the rest of the team.

Bayless should be playing more to see what we have in him, and it should be coming at the expense of Calderon's minutes. Calderon's also apparently playing through injury and sickness, and there's the empirical evidence of his play since the ink dried on his contract that his body's will break down soon if this keeps up. We start him so we can make judgements on him.

[JalenRose5]

I think Jose needs to go. Like it was stated earlier, a team with Jose and Andrea both starting will continually give up about 200 points per 48min. With Demar Derozan emerging, his jump shot looking more and more polished, he will become the player we all wish and hope for him to become! Jerryd Bayless is a stud in the making, and so is Ed Davis with more years. With O.J. mayo on the trading block we should offer them Jose and Reggie's expiring contract, even throw in Linas Kleiza or Sonny just to dump some more pylons so we can have a tighter rotation.

Starting five would be
Bayless
mayo
Derozan
Davis
Bargnani

barbosa
wright
johnson
(High Draft Pick)
(Miami Draft Pick)
alabi
(insert expendable here)

[Tim W.]

But that's the point: Neither of their perceived benefits outweigh their negatives. Both of Bargs and Calderon have to go. The fact that neither of them are getting punished for the very, very poor defensive play is sending a horrible message to the rest of the team.

Bayless should be playing more to see what we have in him, and it should be coming at the expense of Calderon's minutes. Calderon's also apparently playing through injury and sickness, and there's the empirical evidence of his play since the ink dried on his contract that his body's will break down soon if this keeps up. We start him so we can make judgements on him.

Calderon is not as much of a defensive problem than Bargnani, and Calderon at least provides effort. Bargnani doesn't provide effort, which is inexcusable. Calderon has an overall positive effect on the team when he's on the floor. Bargnani doesn't. If you are worried about playing better, than you want to keep the guy who has an overall positive effect, don't you?

And my point is that the first guy to go, if you're worried about that, is Bargnani. And without Bargnani, Calderon isn't nearly the liability on defense.

Personally, I think the Raptors should simply wait to trade either one until after the season. See if you can deal Barbosa or do another small deal, but there's really no point in making a major trade, right now.

[Tim W.]

I think Jose needs to go. Like it was stated earlier, a team with Jose and Andrea both starting will continually give up about 200 points per 48min. With Demar Derozan emerging, his jump shot looking more and more polished, he will become the player we all wish and hope for him to become! Jerryd Bayless is a stud in the making, and so is Ed Davis with more years. With O.J. mayo on the trading block we should offer them Jose and Reggie's expiring contract, even throw in Linas Kleiza or Sonny just to dump some more pylons so we can have a tighter rotation.

Starting five would be
Bayless
mayo
Derozan
Davis
Bargnani

barbosa
wright
johnson
(High Draft Pick)
(Miami Draft Pick)
alabi
(insert expendable here)

Reggie and Calderon make close to $15 million. Mayo makes about $4.5 million. That doesn't quite work. And why on earth wouldn't you want to trade Bargnani, instead? His trade value is probably much higher.

[Arsenalist]

Yes, because the combo of him and Bargs is savagely raping our defense and creating a toxic culture. I really, really fail to see how Calderon's ability to run an offense supersedes his huge defensive problems. And when Bayless has started, he's put up big numbers and scored efficiently. He should be starting, because you know, Irving isn't in the bag for us and he's actually looked like a legit, good starting PG...when he started.

Calderon is NOT creating a toxic culture, c'mon man. The guy has been a total pro in his time with the Raptors. He certainly has defensive problems, but after having two horrible defensive seasons (partly plagued by injury) he's been able to hold his own this year. Still, a better defensive point guard (and wing men) are needed if Bargnani is on the floor. Harsh but true. Jose's played really well this year, and if this team had any aspirations he'd probably be good player to hang on to. As things stands right now, we're not going to be "contending" in at least another 2-3 years and Jose's defense/health will only get worse. Bargnani isn't going anywhere and you pretty much have to surround him with players that hide his weakness and that also includes point guards.

Not to rip on Bargnani too much, but you're right that having both him and Calderon (and currently poor defenders like DeRozan) isn't going to take us anywhere. A Calderon trade would not be a knock on Jose, it would be a knock on the rest of the team defense who can't accommodate a pretty good, albeit not great, floor general.

[WhatWhat]

Calderon is NOT creating a toxic culture, c'mon man. The guy has been a total pro in his time with the Raptors. He certainly has defensive problems, but after having two horrible defensive seasons (partly plagued by injury) he's been able to hold his own this year.

You seriously don't think Bargnani and Calderon not being benched for their poor defense isn't affecting the rest of the team's effort on that end? Or at least sending a horrible message to them. (Pretty much: It's ok if you can't play defense as long as you're scoring.) It's not Calderon or Bargs that is creating the toxic culture, it's the combo of them playing so many minutes despite their very poor defensive play. Maybe this is more on Triano then. Maybe my increasing desire for passable D is making me too harsh. It's probably the injuries, but I'm just getting this feeling of listlessness from the team. Idk, but we need to stop giving them so many minutes man.

As for Calderon's D. It was much better in the beginning of the year, when he was struggling offensively. Then as his offense came back around it has been rapidly approaching last year's level. That Philly game: last year's level. Dude allowed at least 3 easy blowbys in the first few minutes of the Philly game. But he's showing effort, I guess.

I generally agree with the rest of your post though.

[The Rawth]

Jason Williams has been waived, if we pick him up temporarily, him being a veteran could aid development of confidence for Bayless

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Yes, because the combo of him and Bargs is savagely raping our defense and creating a toxic culture. I really, really fail to see how Calderon's ability to run an offense supersedes his huge defensive problems. And when Bayless has started, he's put up big numbers and scored efficiently. He should be starting, because you know, Irving isn't in the bag for us and he's actually looked like a legit, good starting PG...when he started.

Calderon's defensive rating is better then Bayless's.

[JalenRose5]

Reggie and Calderon make close to $15 million. Mayo makes about $4.5 million. That doesn't quite work. And why on earth wouldn't you want to trade Bargnani, instead? His trade value is probably much higher.

I would trade bargnani in a heart beat but because our current GM has a personal investment in him, he will never let his number one pick leave, therefore the most popular trading chip is Jose Calderon.

Calderon and the miami draft pick for mayo