Guys On The Block... Anyone Catch Your Eye?

[dzoni71]

For a team like Toronto which is not a big FA name the only way to make a contender is to build through draft. We need to acquire picks, and most importantly pick smartly! The story of OKC is not a story of stars aligning, but rather of their smart draft choices. As pointed out in only 2 drafts they acquired Durant, Green and Westbrook.

If you still are not sure what I'm thinking about, just look what could have been... In 2003 we drafted a guy named Chris Bosh, I think you may remember him. Great pick, although Wade was also there for taking... What we screwed up were the next 3 drafts, here are our picks and what we could have selected:
2004 - Araujo (someone should have been hanged for this one)
2005 - Villanueva, Graham
2006 - Bargnani
instead of:
2004 - Igoudala or Al Jefferson or Josh Smith
2005 - Bynum, Granger
2006 - Aldridge
and I am not talking about some guys that came out of nowhere like Rondo or David Lee and made a great NBA career, all the above could-have-beens were spoken loudly as our potential picks come draft day. So instead of producing a roster in just 4 years through the draft that included Bosh, Iggy, Bynum, Granger and Aldridge you know how things panned out.

And do not even use as an argument if we selected this guy and that guy we would not have been lottery cause none of them in their first couple of years would lead the team to anything above 6th seed in East.

[Macc]

I'd take a look at Flynn if his contract is decent. No one else is worth trying out.

[Joey]

For a team like Toronto which is not a big FA name the only way to make a contender is to build through draft. We need to acquire picks, and most importantly pick smartly! The story of OKC is not a story of stars aligning, but rather of their smart draft choices. As pointed out in only 2 drafts they acquired Durant, Green and Westbrook.

If you still are not sure what I'm thinking about, just look what could have been... In 2003 we drafted a guy named Chris Bosh, I think you may remember him. Great pick, although Wade was also there for taking... What we screwed up were the next 3 drafts, here are our picks and what we could have selected:
2004 - Araujo (someone should have been hanged for this one)
2005 - Villanueva, Graham
2006 - Bargnani
instead of:
2004 - Igoudala or Al Jefferson or Josh Smith
2005 - Bynum, Granger
2006 - Aldridge
and I am not talking about some guys that came out of nowhere like Rondo or David Lee and made a great NBA career, all the above could-have-beens were spoken loudly as our potential picks come draft day. So instead of producing a roster in just 4 years through the draft that included Bosh, Iggy, Bynum, Granger and Aldridge you know how things panned out.

And do not even use as an argument if we selected this guy and that guy we would not have been lottery cause none of them in their first couple of years would lead the team to anything above 6th seed in East.

This thread is neither about the Draft or Free Agents, so I'm not sure where this is coming from.

And thats why Bynum lasted all the way til the end of the First Round right?

Bargnani was seen as a good #1 pick at the time. We had Bosh already, so Aldridge would have literally been redundant. Made no sense.

I agree the Araujo pick was bad on an EPIC scale, but Iggy would have been behind Vince and Mo, both of whom were playing BIG minutes back then.

[MangoKid]

For a team like Toronto which is not a big FA name the only way to make a contender is to build through draft. We need to acquire picks, and most importantly pick smartly! The story of OKC is not a story of stars aligning, but rather of their smart draft choices. As pointed out in only 2 drafts they acquired Durant, Green and Westbrook.

If you still are not sure what I'm thinking about, just look what could have been... In 2003 we drafted a guy named Chris Bosh, I think you may remember him. Great pick, although Wade was also there for taking... What we screwed up were the next 3 drafts, here are our picks and what we could have selected:
2004 - Araujo (someone should have been hanged for this one)
2005 - Villanueva, Graham
2006 - Bargnani
instead of:
2004 - Igoudala or Al Jefferson or Josh Smith
2005 - Bynum, Granger
2006 - Aldridge
and I am not talking about some guys that came out of nowhere like Rondo or David Lee and made a great NBA career, all the above could-have-beens were spoken loudly as our potential picks come draft day. So instead of producing a roster in just 4 years through the draft that included Bosh, Iggy, Bynum, Granger and Aldridge you know how things panned out.

And do not even use as an argument if we selected this guy and that guy we would not have been lottery cause none of them in their first couple of years would lead the team to anything above 6th seed in East.

Another post of what COULD have been? Come on, man. Every fan of a team can do the same thing. No one GM hits a home run with every selection.

I'll break it down a little bit:
The 2003 draft - Wade played fantastically at Marquette, but he was also older - I believe he was a junior or senior. He also played in a weaker conference. Let's also not forget that there was a guy by the name of Vince Carter who was still the talk of the town in Toronto. In most mock drafts, Bosh was going #4 and considered the BPA, so to say that he should have been passed over for Wade is just a hindsight thing.
The 2004 draft - That was Jack McCloskey's pick, not Babcocks. Babcock was hired 2 weeks beforehand and the rumour was that his pick was either Jameer Nelson or Luke Jackson. Saying that Jefferson was there for the taking or Josh Smith - both of who were HS'ers and were considered to go in the low-teens/early 20's. Once again, both being hindsight picks
The 2005 draft - Do you know where Bynum was going in most mocks? Early 20s. He was a wildcard in all of this. The Lakers reached, only because they had just traded Shaq and Jerry Buss wanted to pick Bynum because he felt he could be the next O'Neal. The Raptors werent' the only team that passed on Granger. While he was a very good player at New Mexico, his knees were a major red flag. Most Raptor fans weren't that displeased when Joey Graham was picked at 16. ANd most Raptor fans didnt say shit when Villanueva was runner up in rookie of the year voting.
The 2006 draft - There was no clear cut number one, but from what I did know, Colangelo was either gonna pick Bargnani or Tyrus Thomas. Aldridge had back issues and the only guys scheduled to go top 5, only Bargnani and Thomas had clean bills of health.

[Apollo]

Wade is 29

I think a lot of people don't realize that Dwayne Wade is already 29 years old. That he's only a couple years younger than Kobe.

[Nine New Faces]

I'd do the Mayo deal with the Grizz that Chisolm outlined, but I think that's overvaluing Barbosa. I'm guessing the Grizz would lean too hard on adding some sweetener. I'd take a chance on Flynn if the price is right too, when he's playing well and confident he has a swagger that the team lacks - if nothing else he would be an asset whose stock could rise with more playing time.

If I'm BC then I'm looking around for picks more than anything. Maybe Milwaukee would do some variation of Barbosa for their 1st rounder, they could certainly use his offense if they want to make a serious playoff push.

[JoePanini]

For a team like Toronto which is not a big FA name the only way to make a contender is to build through draft. We need to acquire picks, and most importantly pick smartly! The story of OKC is not a story of stars aligning, but rather of their smart draft choices. As pointed out in only 2 drafts they acquired Durant, Green and Westbrook.

If you still are not sure what I'm thinking about, just look what could have been... In 2003 we drafted a guy named Chris Bosh, I think you may remember him. Great pick, although Wade was also there for taking... What we screwed up were the next 3 drafts, here are our picks and what we could have selected:
2004 - Araujo (someone should have been hanged for this one)
2005 - Villanueva, Graham
2006 - Bargnani
instead of:
2004 - Igoudala or Al Jefferson or Josh Smith
2005 - Bynum, Granger
2006 - Aldridge
and I am not talking about some guys that came out of nowhere like Rondo or David Lee and made a great NBA career, all the above could-have-beens were spoken loudly as our potential picks come draft day. So instead of producing a roster in just 4 years through the draft that included Bosh, Iggy, Bynum, Granger and Aldridge you know how things panned out.

And do not even use as an argument if we selected this guy and that guy we would not have been lottery cause none of them in their first couple of years would lead the team to anything above 6th seed in East.

Could have been worse. What's the point of bringing up the 'could have been' talk. It's easy to say this now that we've seen the outcome, a lot more difficult when you are actually making the decision.

[dzoni71]

This thread is neither about the Draft or Free Agents, so I'm not sure where this is coming from.

And thats why Bynum lasted all the way til the end of the First Round right?

Bargnani was seen as a good #1 pick at the time. We had Bosh already, so Aldridge would have literally been redundant. Made no sense.

I agree the Araujo pick was bad on an EPIC scale, but Iggy would have been behind Vince and Mo, both of whom were playing BIG minutes back then.

This actually has ALL TO DO with this thread as I want to point out:
1. We should forget about trades. Almost never does a superstar player get traded, and even if he did do you for one second think they'd want to play for TO right now (heck, Alonzo in the twilight of his career refused to come). The only FA that could actually be of any interest from this thread is Mayo, all the others all either not gonna come or are not in sync with our rebuild process.
2. The only way to come up with a contender is to hog draft picks ideally in 3-4 sucessive years, this way we have some chance to strike gold and come up with 2-3 players which will be the core for 10 years.
3. And as far as FA as concerned you either are a market free agents want to come by default (NY, LA, Miami, Chicago) or you have a great team. we are neither, we need to build a team through the draft and then find that one missing piece to put us over the top (like where OKC is at right now).

Actually Bynum was picked at the #10 spot, not the end of round 1.

And as per Aldridge, you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the best available player, drafting by need has never worked for anybody.

[dzoni71]

Another post of what COULD have been? Come on, man. Every fan of a team can do the same thing. No one GM hits a home run with every selection.

I'll break it down a little bit:
The 2003 draft - Wade played fantastically at Marquette, but he was also older - I believe he was a junior or senior. He also played in a weaker conference. Let's also not forget that there was a guy by the name of Vince Carter who was still the talk of the town in Toronto. In most mock drafts, Bosh was going #4 and considered the BPA, so to say that he should have been passed over for Wade is just a hindsight thing.
The 2004 draft - That was Jack McCloskey's pick, not Babcocks. Babcock was hired 2 weeks beforehand and the rumour was that his pick was either Jameer Nelson or Luke Jackson. Saying that Jefferson was there for the taking or Josh Smith - both of who were HS'ers and were considered to go in the low-teens/early 20's. Once again, both being hindsight picks
The 2005 draft - Do you know where Bynum was going in most mocks? Early 20s. He was a wildcard in all of this. The Lakers reached, only because they had just traded Shaq and Jerry Buss wanted to pick Bynum because he felt he could be the next O'Neal. The Raptors werent' the only team that passed on Granger. While he was a very good player at New Mexico, his knees were a major red flag. Most Raptor fans weren't that displeased when Joey Graham was picked at 16. ANd most Raptor fans didnt say shit when Villanueva was runner up in rookie of the year voting.
The 2006 draft - There was no clear cut number one, but from what I did know, Colangelo was either gonna pick Bargnani or Tyrus Thomas. Aldridge had back issues and the only guys scheduled to go top 5, only Bargnani and Thomas had clean bills of health.

First I never said Bosh was a bad pick, only that Wade was also available, no regrets there, but your argument that Wade was older is in clear contradiction with the rest of your post:
1. If being old is a problem then why in a 1000 years did we pick Araujo when he was 24 at the time? Cannot believe anyone with any brains would think he had upside!? And that's my point right there if just about anybody that was more than a casual NBA fan saw that, what are people in the front office getting paid 7 figures doing? That's what really bugs me.
2. If being old is bad, then by logic being young is better (bigger upside). We didin't want Jefferson, Bynum or Josh Smith becuase they were out of high school? So now young is not good? Man, if you have the end of lettery pick in the draft might as well swing for the fences, cause that rotation player is not gonna get it done...

[dzoni71]

Another post of what COULD have been? Come on, man. Every fan of a team can do the same thing. No one GM hits a home run with every selection.

I'll break it down a little bit:
The 2003 draft - Wade played fantastically at Marquette, but he was also older - I believe he was a junior or senior. He also played in a weaker conference. Let's also not forget that there was a guy by the name of Vince Carter who was still the talk of the town in Toronto. In most mock drafts, Bosh was going #4 and considered the BPA, so to say that he should have been passed over for Wade is just a hindsight thing.
The 2004 draft - That was Jack McCloskey's pick, not Babcocks. Babcock was hired 2 weeks beforehand and the rumour was that his pick was either Jameer Nelson or Luke Jackson. Saying that Jefferson was there for the taking or Josh Smith - both of who were HS'ers and were considered to go in the low-teens/early 20's. Once again, both being hindsight picks
The 2005 draft - Do you know where Bynum was going in most mocks? Early 20s. He was a wildcard in all of this. The Lakers reached, only because they had just traded Shaq and Jerry Buss wanted to pick Bynum because he felt he could be the next O'Neal. The Raptors werent' the only team that passed on Granger. While he was a very good player at New Mexico, his knees were a major red flag. Most Raptor fans weren't that displeased when Joey Graham was picked at 16. ANd most Raptor fans didnt say shit when Villanueva was runner up in rookie of the year voting.
The 2006 draft - There was no clear cut number one, but from what I did know, Colangelo was either gonna pick Bargnani or Tyrus Thomas. Aldridge had back issues and the only guys scheduled to go top 5, only Bargnani and Thomas had clean bills of health.

And as fas as hindsight is concerned, remember that in 2005 even after a whole year of Araujo (man that word is like a synonym for WTF) I was still pissed. On a bright note, we had 2 first round lottery picks. And then we passed not once, but twice on Granger where the talk was we would take him with our #7. I was so pissed I even e-mailed Swirsky asking what they are doing there at the office(he even replied). So if I just a bit more than a casual fan saw this one coming on draft day, then someone who is making a very good living should be doing much better than that. The front office should be free to do whatever it sees fit, but if they are given so much freedom (not to mention money) they have to be held accountable. And btw, this is no knock on Collengalo, I actually think he is doing a descent job, Derozan and Davis look like very strong picks.

[Eurobasket]

From this group I would only take a chance with Mayo if he is available. He had some issues but the only time you’ll get a good player is when he is struggling for whatever reason, not when he’s on fire and his team is on 15-game winning streak. If you have good coaching and personnel to work on his deficiencies, he can be a very good player. My reasons:
He has very reasonable salary with another two years left on his contract after this season:
2010/11 – 4.5 M (compare with Calderon 9 M, Bargnani 8 M, Barbosa 7.1 M, Evans 5.1 M, Amir 5 M, Kleiza 5 M…)
2011/12 – 5.6 M
2012/13 – 7.4 M
He is still very young, turning 24 in May;
Athletic and plays defense;
No problems with injuries (played all 82 games last 2 seasons);
I`m not mentioning any ppg or other stats, because very often they are deceiving.
We had enough of overpaid "superstars", we don`t need Lewis, Igoudala etc.
Who would I give up to get him? Anyone except DeRozan and Ed Davis, they are the only two players on this roster who have a chance to become above average players (if we get a good coach who can develop their obvious talent and enforce some good habits – for example, to battle hard each night and put team success first).

[changv10]

The team needs to focus on defense, and get younger. I suggest this trade with Philly:

TORONTO gets Andre Iguodala, Maurice Spreights, 2011 2nd round pick
PHILLY gets Andrea Bargnani, Linas Kleiza, Sonny Weems

Bargnani has pros and cons ... some people like him, some don't. There's a reason for that and its that his defense is not good, but his offense can be unstoppable. This way we lay a good defensive foundation at our wings, and get Spreights who's a good young rotation guy, plus a pick - never a bad idea. Time to develop Ed Davis, and let Amir and Derozan get more responsibility (which is great given their efficiency).

Amir Johnson / Maurice Spreights / Alexis Ajinca
Ed Davis / Reggie Evans / Joey Dorsey
Andre Iguodala / Julian Wright
Demar Derozan / Leandro Barbosa / Trey Johnson
Jose Calderon / Jerryd Bayless

Thoughts ?

[Joey]

Love it.
Petro was AMAZING.

You ever see the ESPN special on those two?

[Apollo]

Yeah, sad story. I can't put myself in Drazen's shoes but it's too bad he saw no way to forgive his old friend for something that sounded like a huge misunderstanding.

[Eurobasket]

Love it.
Petro was AMAZING.

You ever see the ESPN special on those two?

Drazen was without any doubt the best European player ever to play the game.

I watched him since his junior days, it was like you`re watching Michelangelo painting. Too bad Adelman never gave him a real chance in Portland, and it affected him a lot. Drexler and Porter were great players and they should have played, but a good coach would recognize extraordinary talent and find a way to implement it in his team. He also had (for the first time in his career) injuries, while he was in Europe I don`t remember him ever missing a single game. And just as he started to show a small part of his talent in NBA, tragedy strucks...

ESPN special was very well done, from a neutral corner. Did not take any sides, just told the story the way it happened. Drazen`s brother was good player as well (although not in Drazen`s class), he was especially known for his 3-pt shoots. We called him Aca Trica (short for Aleksandar is Aca, and trica means 3pt). I loved the pieces with Kukoc, themost underrated player in NBA in my opinion, due to his modesty and team first approach to the game.