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  1. #1
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default 25 And Under Ceiling

    What do you think the ceiling is for all the Raptors' players 25 years of age and younger?

    Andrea Bargnani, age 25
    Sonny Weems, age 24
    Amir Johnson, age 23
    Julian Wright, age 23
    Jerryd Bayless, age 22
    Solomon Alabi, age 22
    Alexis Ajinca, age 22
    DeMar DeRozan, age 21
    Ed Davis, age 21

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Not sure how one would quantify 'ceiling' to be honest.

    Are we doing it out of 100, where 100 is Lebron-type-Ceiling, and 0 being Hoffa type?

    I'd say Demar is the only one with a truly unlimited ceiling.

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default What I'm thinking

    Superstar, perennial all-star, all-star, team star, impact player, solid rotation player, end of bench player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    demar and ed - all-star

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Solomon Alabi and Alexis Ajinca are...?

    Tough one to answer, huh?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What do you think the ceiling is for all the Raptors' players 25 years of age and younger?

    Andrea Bargnani, age 25 impact player
    Sonny Weems, age 24 solid rotational
    Amir Johnson, age 23 impact player
    Julian Wright, age 23 end of bench
    Jerryd Bayless, age 22 solid rotational player
    Solomon Alabi, age 22 end of bench
    Alexis Ajinca, age 22 end of bench
    DeMar DeRozan, age 21 perennial all-star
    Ed Davis, age 21perennial all-star
    I am trying to be realistic. If the Raps ever have a great season and Bargnani is around he could be considered an all-star but he is approaching the top floor I think. Bayless has averaged 14/7 when given the start, he is who I feel least confident about labelling right now. Weems is almost at end of bench for my ranking, he just slipped in to solid rotational player.

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    I'll preface my picks by stating that I will not be labeling any of the above-mentioned players as "perennial all-stars" based on the system of fan voting and the fact that Toronto is off the radar for many NBA fans/players/coaches/media types. Maybe a couple of these guys will have all-star calibre seasons, but that does not mean that they will make the all star team. Every year very deserving players get left off the team. That being said;
    Bargs-impact offensive player
    Weems-Bench/not-so-solid rotational player
    Johnson-impact player
    Wright-solid rotational player
    Bayless-solid rotational player
    Alabi-DNP-CD
    Ajinca-End of bench
    DeRozan-all star calibre player
    Davis-impact player/all star calibre player

  8. #8
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote duncan wrote: View Post
    I'll preface my picks by stating that I will not be labeling any of the above-mentioned players as "perennial all-stars" based on the system of fan voting and the fact that Toronto is off the radar for many NBA fans/players/coaches/media types.
    Vince Carter had no trouble getting fan votes but I agree for the most part about being off the radar of most fans. However, the starters are only decided by the fans. The coaches know what's what. They scout and research all season long in preparation for games. The coaches usually make fair selections. If either is worthy the coaches will see that they get there more times than not. The coaches got Bosh there multiple times. They also got Antonio Davis to the game while he was in Toronto.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Vince Carter had no trouble getting fan votes but I agree for the most part about being off the radar of most fans. However, the starters are only decided by the fans. The coaches know what's what. They scout and research all season long in preparation for games. The coaches usually make fair selections. If either is worthy the coaches will see that they get there more times than not. The coaches got Bosh there multiple times. They also got Antonio Davis to the game while he was in Toronto.
    Apollo, we're splitting hairs here. The only reason I went out of my way to preface my comment was the term "perennial all-stars". I wasn't doubting that these guys could make an AS game or 2, but that is a far cry from "perennial". Now, as to your response, Vince was the darling of the league back then, much as Blake is right now (and that's where the comparison for those 2 stops).
    Bosh did get in 3 times, but I think one of those was an injury replacement, and the other 2; he was putting up big #'s on a middle-of-the-pack team with no other star player.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Antonio Davis was an injury replacement as well.

  10. #10
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote duncan wrote: View Post
    Apollo, we're splitting hairs here. The only reason I went out of my way to preface my comment was the term "perennial all-stars". I wasn't doubting that these guys could make an AS game or 2, but that is a far cry from "perennial". Now, as to your response, Vince was the darling of the league back then, much as Blake is right now (and that's where the comparison for those 2 stops).
    Bosh did get in 3 times, but I think one of those was an injury replacement, and the other 2; he was putting up big #'s on a middle-of-the-pack team with no other star player.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Antonio Davis was an injury replacement as well.
    Bosh replaced KG in the starting lineup on season but I'm not sure if he made his first due to somebody else not being able to play.

    Who did Davis replace? I don't remember it going down that way but it was a loooong time ago.

    Either way, my point is, if they're good enough they'll get in every year.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, Antonio Davis was not only an injury replacement but more like an injury replacement replacement. Someone got hurt, and then the replacement also got hurt, and Davis got in.

    Here's the breakdown of votes for 2001 centers:

    Alonzo Mourning (916,866) - injured
    Theo Ratliff (637,585) - injured
    Dikembe Mutombo (627,148) - reserve
    Jermaine O'Neal (524,506)
    Zydrunas Ilgauskas (288,183)
    Antonio Davis (220,917) - starter!
    Earvin Johnson (220,344)
    Elden Campbell (200,996)
    Ben Wallace (194,472)
    John Amaechi (182,111)

    I don't know about all-star because all-star is all about popularity and I couldn't care less about how popular our players become. I think as Raptors fans we should be looking for impact and building towards a team that will contend, not for the playoffs but for a championship. It's a more critical way of looking at things but it also gives you a little perspective.

    It's fun to look at where you think DeRozan might be in 2-3 years, and yea he might be great, but if the Raptors are still barely a 0.500 team, who gives a shit if DeRozan or Davis makes the all-star game? I'd rather look at where would he stand on a team that contends for a championship. That is, if you put DeRozan, or Weems, or Bargnani on a team that people talk about as a team that could potentially make a deep run in the playoffs, where would that player rank. Here's my list:

    Andrea Bargnani, solid rotation player
    Sonny Weems, end of bench player
    Amir Johnson, solid rotation player
    Julian Wright, end of bench player
    Jerryd Bayless, end of bench player
    Solomon Alabi, not on team
    Alexis Ajinca, not on team
    DeMar DeRozan, impact player
    Ed Davis, impact player
    Last edited by ebrian; Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:48 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote duncan wrote: View Post
    Apollo, we're splitting hairs here. The only reason I went out of my way to preface my comment was the term "perennial all-stars". I wasn't doubting that these guys could make an AS game or 2, but that is a far cry from "perennial". Now, as to your response, Vince was the darling of the league back then, much as Blake is right now (and that's where the comparison for those 2 stops).
    Bosh did get in 3 times, but I think one of those was an injury replacement, and the other 2; he was putting up big #'s on a middle-of-the-pack team with no other star player.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Antonio Davis was an injury replacement as well.
    Have there been any Toronto players that could have been All-Stars that weren't? It doesn't sound like you wanted to get into this conversation, but it seems to me like you're complaining about something that simply doesn't exist.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Eurobasket's Avatar
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    Depends where the team is going in the next few years, but at the moment this is what it looks like:

    Bargs- offensive rotational player (not even a starter on a good team due to his non-existing defense)
    Weems-Bench/ rotational player
    Johnson-solid rotational player
    Wright-bench/defensive rotational player
    Bayless- bench/rotational player
    Alabi-not on any NBA roster
    Ajinca-not on any NBA roster
    DeRozan-all star calibre player (depends on his effort and work ethics, the ingredients are there)
    Davis-all star calibre player (it will be more difficult for him to get to the all-star because he's not as flashy as DeRozan)

    Just to mention, I do not measure the quality of the player by the number of his All-star appearances, the only thing that matters in my book are the number of Championships won (or at least playoff series wins).

  14. #14
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    Davis is the only guy I can see as an All-star. Bargnani if he can score 25 points a game, and if all Italians decide to vote for him everyday from when the ballot starts.

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