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Thread: Who will become who?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Ray Allen is a great shooter. DeMar is getting to be a better shooter, but he'll never be Ray Allen. Richard Hamilton might be a better comparison. And DeMar is already starting to rebound and defend better, so I wouldn't write him off.

    Rik Smits was a FAR better rebounder than Bargnani ever was, and Bargnani a better scorer than Smits. Take a look at Smit's per 36 rebounding numbers. He was actually decent, he just didn't play enough minutes. And Smits was also a pretty good defender. I don't see a good comparison for Bargnani- a good scoring big man who literally can't do anything else. Generally those types of guys simply don't get the minutes to make much of an impact. If push came to shove, I might say Brad Sellers. He was a big man who could shoot from outside, but didn't like to do any dirty work.

    Antonio Davis was a poor offensive player. Amir is not. Someone mentioned Horace Grant somewhere and I agree that's probably the best comparison. Obviously that's on the high end.

    Garnett was a good offensive player coming in, even in high school. And Garnett had amazing lateral quickness. Defensively, he was basically a guard in a big man's body, which is what made him a complete freak of nature. Garnett was a decent, but never great shotblocker, despite length and athletic ability. Alonzo Mourning is the only player that I can think of that is really similar, but Alonzo was a much better scorer coming into the league.

    Calderon and Price are both good shooter and are both white. But Price was incredibly quick before his knee injury. Calderon never has been. And I'm not sure why you say Calderon isn't a double digit assist player. Have you seen his stats since Jack was traded?
    sorry Tim W, its kinda late and im not in the mood to rebuff all the stuff you said, plus, i was actually asking for examples, not to criticize who i gave as examples.

    thanks and have a nice day.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Demar can't be Ray Allen. He literally has no range while Ray Allen is the best 3 point shooter in the history of the NBA. Right now Demar is shooting 8% from 3 point line (25 or 27 attempts).

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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    sorry Tim W, its kinda late and im not in the mood to rebuff all the stuff you said, plus, i was actually asking for examples, not to criticize who i gave as examples.

    thanks and have a nice day.
    Uh, I actually gave examples. And like it or not, just because you start the thread, doesn't mean you have control over what everyone posts.

    Sorry I hurt your feelings. Have a lovely day.
    Last edited by Tim W.; Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:46 AM.
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    I disagree with most

    DeRozan seems more like a mix between T-Mac/Vince/Terrence Williams. Athletic, Big, never too keen on defense, great dunker and decent mid-range jumper.

    Calderon too me, is like a less talented and injure-prone, Nash. Shoots efficiently, passes efficiently. Both make players around them better, both unselfish, both see the court well. They can shoot very well, but only shoot when open or when absolutely needed. Very similar, of course Nash is a lot better, but their playing styles are very similar. Their personality as well, both very laid back and simple people.

    Amir Johnson to me, is hard to compare. His style of basketball is very common, hard-working big-man, decent at everything and very athletic.

    Ed Davis, hopefully will become like Duncan or something. A guy who just plays basketball for basketball. Nothing fancy, just plain old basketball. Efficient and hard-working. Someone who doesn't think about stats, but about the wins. He also has a nice left-hook, and if he develops his offensive game, he could become a great PF.

    Bargnani is hard to compare, there has not been any center like Bargnani. A guy with crazy offensive skills, although his stats are bad, and he is inconsistent, his offensive skills are undoubtedly some of the best ever for a center.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Uh, I actually gave examples. And like it or not, just because you start the thread, doesn't mean you have control over what everyone posts.

    Sorry I hurt your feelings. Have a lovely day.
    hahaha sorry Tim, i was just tired last night, nothing personal.
    Ill get to your post in a minute.

  6. #46
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Calderon - John Stockton.
    That was basketball blasphemy

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Ray Allen is a great shooter. DeMar is getting to be a better shooter, but he'll never be Ray Allen. Richard Hamilton might be a better comparison. And DeMar is already starting to rebound and defend better, so I wouldn't write him off.

    Rik Smits was a FAR better rebounder than Bargnani ever was, and Bargnani a better scorer than Smits. Take a look at Smit's per 36 rebounding numbers. He was actually decent, he just didn't play enough minutes. And Smits was also a pretty good defender. I don't see a good comparison for Bargnani- a good scoring big man who literally can't do anything else. Generally those types of guys simply don't get the minutes to make much of an impact. If push came to shove, I might say Brad Sellers. He was a big man who could shoot from outside, but didn't like to do any dirty work.

    Antonio Davis was a poor offensive player. Amir is not. Someone mentioned Horace Grant somewhere and I agree that's probably the best comparison. Obviously that's on the high end.

    Garnett was a good offensive player coming in, even in high school. And Garnett had amazing lateral quickness. Defensively, he was basically a guard in a big man's body, which is what made him a complete freak of nature. Garnett was a decent, but never great shotblocker, despite length and athletic ability. Alonzo Mourning is the only player that I can think of that is really similar, but Alonzo was a much better scorer coming into the league.

    Calderon and Price are both good shooter and are both white. But Price was incredibly quick before his knee injury. Calderon never has been. And I'm not sure why you say Calderon isn't a double digit assist player. Have you seen his stats since Jack was traded?
    i forgot that sometimes people take things way too literally around here, its my fault, comparing demar to allen was a bad comparison because of the obvious, allen is a shooter and demar is not, but if you look at my side note No problem scoring but cannot put up other stats. I was trying to say it seems to me Demar is more of a scorer but you are right, he is improving on his passing and rebound so who knows, maybe on day, as multipaul said, he could be as good as Kobe.

    After looking at Rik Smits numbers i thought it was a fair comparison for Bargs. Smits was a 15-18pt 6 reb guy. Bargs has pretty much the same numbers although he has a higher scoring avg. might be polar opposites if you review video archives and compare them play by play, shuffling of feet, position or what not but i kinda dont have time to review past tapes so i just went with the stats. plus, i did my comparisons straight up, im not really favoring one or the other, or making my decisions based on bias or hatred - a good scoring big man who literally can't do anything else. not really sure where youre coming from with this one. but hey, thats a separate thread i guess. dont do anymore bargs thread coz apollo is just gonna close it, ask multipaul, hehehe.

    antonio davis - 10pts/7 rebs. Amir - 10pts/6rebs. like you said with bargs before, 5 years into the league so he probably wont improve on skills that he's poor in, specifically defense and rebounding. since amir has been in the league about the same number of years, i figured he might not improve as well so his numbers might be the same till he retires, but who knows. he can still improve, oh and so can bargs.

    garnett and davis, might be a little bit, just a little bit over the top but i can see davis getting better than what he is now. his peak might compare to garnett's, thats why i said potentially, twice. like i said, davis has good movement around the basket, can take the step back jumper, good rebound and good shotblocker. KG is a career 1.6blks guy, thats almost 2blks a game. if you think he is not a great shot blocker, he's at least a good one. and so is Ed. Mourning would be a good comparison too but i think Ed is a bit quicker.

    Calderon and Price, again numbers. But yes, that was a misstatement, calderon is a double-digit assist player.

    bottomline is, im just asking for comparisons. you can take it literally and review video night and day, and some might just take a sec or two and wait for the players name that first comes into mind when thinking of current raps players, like what i did. and youre welcomed to critique, as you always do.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:38 AM.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Uh, I actually gave examples. And like it or not, just because you start the thread, doesn't mean you have control over what everyone posts.

    Sorry I hurt your feelings. Have a lovely day.
    Oh no man, that wasnt my intention! Im not trying to control what everyone posts, but of course sometimes when i post something and somebody else challenges it, gets me ticked but i then realize later that hey, this guy has a point, so its all good.
    Just human nature i guess.

  9. #49
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    All I know is that Ed Davis will be the next JO.

    And Sonny Weems will be the next Trey Johnson.

  10. #50
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    Quote Joe Buddy wrote: View Post
    And Sonny Weems will be the next Trey Johnson.
    hahahahahahaahahahaha

  11. #51
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    Derozan - I would like to think the Drexler comparison, but right now an Eddie Jones. (and he is nowhere near as annoying and immature as Kobe was his 2nd and 3rd years in)
    Bayless - I am with the Barbosa comparison, although his ego puts him in the Monta comparison.
    Amir - Horace Grant is a great comparison, but I am going with Kurt Rambis. Tenacious, a great contributor, mencaing at times, slap your forehead at others. Some offensive game but primarily around the basket.
    Ed Davis - I would like to see Emeka Okafor
    Weems - Mason, as in brick layer. If he doesn't find the shot selection he had last year, that may be his profession for real.
    Bargnani - really don't have a comparison here. Maybe a Vlade Divac who scores a little more but just as frustrating and plays less defense.

  12. #52
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    hahaha sorry Tim, i was just tired last night, nothing personal.
    Ill get to your post in a minute.
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  13. #53
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    i forgot that sometimes people take things way too literally around here, its my fault, comparing demar to allen was a bad comparison because of the obvious, allen is a shooter and demar is not, but if you look at my side note No problem scoring but cannot put up other stats. I was trying to say it seems to me Demar is more of a scorer but you are right, he is improving on his passing and rebound so who knows, maybe on day, as multipaul said, he could be as good as Kobe.

    After looking at Rik Smits numbers i thought it was a fair comparison for Bargs. Smits was a 15-18pt 6 reb guy. Bargs has pretty much the same numbers although he has a higher scoring avg. might be polar opposites if you review video archives and compare them play by play, shuffling of feet, position or what not but i kinda dont have time to review past tapes so i just went with the stats. plus, i did my comparisons straight up, im not really favoring one or the other, or making my decisions based on bias or hatred - a good scoring big man who literally can't do anything else. not really sure where youre coming from with this one. but hey, thats a separate thread i guess. dont do anymore bargs thread coz apollo is just gonna close it, ask multipaul, hehehe.

    antonio davis - 10pts/7 rebs. Amir - 10pts/6rebs. like you said with bargs before, 5 years into the league so he probably wont improve on skills that he's poor in, specifically defense and rebounding. since amir has been in the league about the same number of years, i figured he might not improve as well so his numbers might be the same till he retires, but who knows. he can still improve, oh and so can bargs.

    garnett and davis, might be a little bit, just a little bit over the top but i can see davis getting better than what he is now. his peak might compare to garnett's, thats why i said potentially, twice. like i said, davis has good movement around the basket, can take the step back jumper, good rebound and good shotblocker. KG is a career 1.6blks guy, thats almost 2blks a game. if you think he is not a great shot blocker, he's at least a good one. and so is Ed. Mourning would be a good comparison too but i think Ed is a bit quicker.

    Calderon and Price, again numbers. But yes, that was a misstatement, calderon is a double-digit assist player.

    bottomline is, im just asking for comparisons. you can take it literally and review video night and day, and some might just take a sec or two and wait for the players name that first comes into mind when thinking of current raps players, like what i did. and youre welcomed to critique, as you always do.
    You were looking more at stats, as opposed to their game. In that case, the Ray Allen comparison is valid. I can see DeRozan putting up similar stats. I just don't see similar games.

    As for Smits, look at the minutes he played. He never he averaged 31 mpg one year. His best season, he average 17.9 ppg and 7.7 rpg, but playing 30.5 mpg. Per 36 mpg, Smits career average was 8.2 rpg. Bargnani's is 5.9 rpg. Smits was also a better scorer, scoring 20.1 ppg per 36 minutes over the course of his career compared to Bargnani's 17.7 ppg. And Smits was never the main scoring option on his team, as Bargnani is now.

    Given a choice between the two, I'd take Smits in a second. And I never liked Smits' game, so maybe that is a good comparison!

    Looking solely points and rebounds, Antonio Davis and Amir might be similar, but Davis was a career .448 shooter. Amir is shooting .594 for his career so far. Davis was a very good defender and good rebounder, but he was a bit of a liability on offense. Not nearly as much as Reggie is, but he still wasn't very good on the offensive end. Amir is so efficient offensively, that despite him not being a good scorer, he has a very positive impact on the offensive end.

    Again, I'm going more by what I saw players do on the court, rather than what kind of stats they put up.
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  14. #54
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    Demar = Joe Johnson
    Amir = Dale Davis (minus some muscle)
    Ed D = Marcus Camby
    Bargnani = Austin Croshere


    The rest don't deserve mentioning.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I'm kickin' in old school:

    DeMar DeRozan - Reggie Theus
    Andrea Bargnani - Cliff Robinson
    Jose Calderon - Muggsy Bogues
    Amir Johnson - Larry Nance
    Sonny Weems - Tariq Abdul-Wahad
    Jerryd Bayless - Quintin Daily
    Ed Davis - impossible to do at this point.. need more stats

    How I did this: Went to Basketball-Reference.com, using the Player Season finder and used constraints each player is known for (like Jose's good a:t ratio and good free throw percentage, or Bargnani's bad rebounding but high point attempts, or DeRozan's low 3P% with average FTA, etc).
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I'm kickin' in old school:

    DeMar DeRozan - Reggie Theus
    Andrea Bargnani - Cliff Robinson
    Jose Calderon - Muggsy Bogues
    Amir Johnson - Larry Nance
    Sonny Weems - Tariq Abdul-Wahad
    Jerryd Bayless - Quintin Daily
    Ed Davis - impossible to do at this point.. need more stats

    How I did this: Went to Basketball-Reference.com, using the Player Season finder and used constraints each player is known for (like Jose's good a:t ratio and good free throw percentage, or Bargnani's bad rebounding but high point attempts, or DeRozan's low 3P% with average FTA, etc).
    Reggie Theus was a MUCH better ball handler and passer (when he did) than DeRozan. Didn't he play some PG at one point?

    The Cliff Robinson comparison is pretty good, except Robinson was actually a good defender. Pitiful rebounder, but good defender.

    I don't see the Muggsy Bogues comparison.

    I actually thought about comparing Nance to Johnson, but Nance was much more of a fluid scorer and almost a 3/4. Johnson could never play the 3.

    If Sonny become Tariq (minus the injuries), I'd be happy.

    As for Dailey, I'm assuming you mean on the court. I never watched much of him, but i see the similarities.
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    Demar Derozan = Kevin Martin.

    If DD develops the 3-ball, he will be scary close to Kevin Martin. Both guys have skinny frames and can score with drives or jumpers and getting to the line. But they kill you on defense. Rebounding is about average (~4-5) and blks/steals could be better.

    Unfortunately, Kevin Martin is one of those guys who puts up great stats, but always seems to make his team worse. I hope this comparison doesn't pan out.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Reggie Theus was a MUCH better ball handler and passer (when he did) than DeRozan. Didn't he play some PG at one point?

    The Cliff Robinson comparison is pretty good, except Robinson was actually a good defender. Pitiful rebounder, but good defender.

    I don't see the Muggsy Bogues comparison.

    I actually thought about comparing Nance to Johnson, but Nance was much more of a fluid scorer and almost a 3/4. Johnson could never play the 3.

    If Sonny become Tariq (minus the injuries), I'd be happy.

    As for Dailey, I'm assuming you mean on the court. I never watched much of him, but i see the similarities.
    Just recapping how I came up with those: I took a recent/current season or a career average (more weighting to recent season since they're all relatively young players) and plugged that season with constraints into the B-R.com season finder. The names on the right are the players whose seasons came up the most often that matches the player on the left. For example, Reggie Theus has had 3 seasons similar to the season DeRozan is currently having. Muggsy Bogues had 2 seasons similar to what Calderon is having (that is, with horrible defense, a fantastic assist-to-turnover ratio, solid fg% and ft%). Robinson's D was definitely better than Andrea's, but in terms of number of shots taken with low rebounding and lots of 3's, they are quite similar. Tariq's similarities was his low shooting percentages, both in true shooting and effective shooting, and FGA's despite those awful percentages. Dailey came up like 4-5 times in comparison to Bayless. (I actually have no idea who that is btw).
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Just recapping how I came up with those: I took a recent/current season or a career average (more weighting to recent season since they're all relatively young players) and plugged that season with constraints into the B-R.com season finder. The names on the right are the players whose seasons came up the most often that matches the player on the left. For example, Reggie Theus has had 3 seasons similar to the season DeRozan is currently having. Muggsy Bogues had 2 seasons similar to what Calderon is having (that is, with horrible defense, a fantastic assist-to-turnover ratio, solid fg% and ft%). Robinson's D was definitely better than Andrea's, but in terms of number of shots taken with low rebounding and lots of 3's, they are quite similar. Tariq's similarities was his low shooting percentages, both in true shooting and effective shooting, and FGA's despite those awful percentages. Dailey came up like 4-5 times in comparison to Bayless. (I actually have no idea who that is btw).
    You had impressed me with some NBA history knowledge! Oh well. I understand.

    Oh, and one of Quintin Dailey's nicknames was San Quintin, as in the prison. Read up on a few of his transgressions here...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintin_Dailey
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    Just can't compare them to legends. But you can compare them to above average and in some cases 'good' players who had long careers in the NBA.

    Ed Davis - PJ Brown or Theo Ratliff
    Demar - Latrell Sprewell - slasher, instant o, could go off for 30, could take games off
    Bargs - Christian Laettner : )
    Amir - Kurt Thomas - solid 10-10 guy, good defender, could hit the open J
    Bayless - Damon Stoudamire (with 1/5th the talent)
    Calderon - can't beat Mark Price as recommended above

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