Amir to the Bench, Start AB-ED

[Multipaul]

After yesterday's masterclass, one thing is clear: the future of this team depends on starting AB and Big Ed at the 4 and 5.

Amir played great, but his penchant for fouling makes him unusable as an effective starter. He would be better coming off the bench. His hustle, and internal radar for the ball will make him valuable with our second unit, and will protect the team from being hampered by his foul trouble early in games, which neutralizes his ability to play all-out D later on.

King Bargs and Big Ed can get this ish done!

[Apollo]

I can't seem to see this Bargnani in Toronto when I look into my crystal ball.

[DoNDaDDa]

I can't seem to see this Bargnani in Toronto when I look into my crystal ball.

i dont see bargs being here too long either... hes just not what we need.. Ed bring alot more... sure his offence needs work but hes already miles ahead of bargs in all other areas IMO..

id like to see them trade bargs...

[Multipaul]

Bargs' offense and clutch plays, decent rebs and Ed's dominant down low presence and blocking and rebs. It's an awesome combo, especially with Amir coming off the bench.

[sillydebate]

I think that is a bit of an impulse move based on a small sample. Amir's history is what it is but he is showing big improvement in his game. I'd say a few of the calls against Amir were of the Blake Griffin's Blake Griffin variety and there was probably more strategic use of the fouls as well. Ed was great but there have been several games where he has been a non-factor. This is not a problem yet with Amir and Ed in tandem at the 4, but there will come a time when Ed will become the starter at that position. Bargnani was great on D yesterday but that is not something you see everyday. Once there is reason to be confident in consistent performances from Amir, Ed and Andrea then you can more easily determine who should be where.

[Matt52]

It is priceless to see Raps fan reaction here. Amir plays solid for 5 games and no peeps about him. Has a bad game, send him to the bench.

Davis has a great game - start him.

Bargnani goes through a rough stretch and calls to trade him, or worse yet, string him up in the town square are rampant. 3 pretty good games in a row, nothing but crickets.

DD has gone from career potential of back up SG to All-Star in the last few weeks.

"What have you done for me within the last 24hrs?" should be the new motto of the forums.

[Multipaul]

It is priceless to see Raps fan reaction here. Amir plays solid for 5 games and no peeps about him. Has a bad game, send him to the bench.

Davis has a great game - start him.

Bargnani goes through a rough stretch and calls to trade him, or worse yet, string him up in the town square are rampant. 3 pretty good games in a row, nothing but crickets.

DD has gone from career potential of back up SG to All-Star in the last few weeks.

"What have you done for me within the last 24hrs?" should be the new motto of the forums.

Amir has been in foul trouble the entire season, including the last few games. He also turns it over like crazy and misses easy layups. His grit and hunger are good off the bench when playing against another teams bench. The sloppiness does not deem him worthy of a starting role...yet..

[Apollo]

i dont see bargs being here too long either... hes just not what we need.. Ed bring alot more... sure his offence needs work but hes already miles ahead of bargs in all other areas IMO..

id like to see them trade bargs...

Yeah, but I said this Bargnani. I said it that way because there is still a slight chance that he shows us an improvement to defense and rebound before the year is out.

I think Ed will be the starting PF for the Raptors the beginning of next season in the worst case scenario.

[Matt52]

Amir has been in foul trouble the entire season, including the last few games. He also turns it over like crazy and misses easy layups. His grit and hunger are good off the bench when playing against another teams bench. The sloppiness does not deem him worthy of a starting role...yet..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=2769

There is his game log. I'll have to disagree on "turns it over like crazy" as he is averaging .6TO per game in February and 1.1 for January and December. I also disagree on missing easy layups. This happened versus LAC twice but I have not seen it prior to this.

Long term I see Amir off the bench but not yet. Ed will start at some point but not after one really good game by him and one of Amir's worst of the year.

[joey_hesketh]

Amir has been in foul trouble the entire season, including the last few games. He also turns it over like crazy and misses easy layups. His grit and hunger are good off the bench when playing against another teams bench. The sloppiness does not deem him worthy of a starting role...yet..

Dude's shooting a 60% from the field as a Toronto Raptor... thats unbelievable...
Not to mention he actually has an Ass/TO ratio above 1... which not alot of big guys can say.

I think both of them bring ups and downs the starting PF spot. I think Amir has shown he deserves the spot though, as he is also leading the team in FG%, Blocks per game and Rebounds.

[Multipaul]

Dude's shooting a 60% from the field as a Toronto Raptors... thats unbelievable...
Not to mention he actually has an Ass/TO ratio above 1... which not alot of big guys can say.

AST/TO ratio doesn't really matter much when talking about your 4/5 though. Like, it's neat, but it's not the benchmark by which they should be evaluated.

[Apollo]

It tells me he adding more to the endgame goal than taking away from it. That's important to me. Especially in close games.

[joey_hesketh]

It tells me he adding more to the goal than taking away from it.

Exactly.

[Multipaul]

I was a huge advocate of starting Amir, have been for a while. I was a big fan of his game in Detroit. But, he really needs some serious help on the fouling and sloppy play. He has been in the league what, 5 years?

Bargs had foul trouble like crazy his 2nd and 3rd years, but he is over it. Amir needs to take that next step too.

[Junkyardblog]

I don't know, I think amir is the raps most well rounded player. Foul trouble was a serious issue last year but he's curbed that problem for the most part this year. Also there's something to be said about a young team with a 4 who can run the floor like amir.

I'd like Bargs to stick around. I do think he's more of a PF than a C and he's got the moves of a top tier guard, unfortunately he's also got the rebounding numbers of one too.

if i had a chance to "fix" the raptors I'd move Bargs to the starting 4 and trade amir (I love the dude but his back problems are worrisome) I'd do what i could to pick up a strong defensive SF to help neutralize all the crazy good 3s in the NBA and last but not least I'd try to pick up a strong in the post and on the glass Centre. I think that would fill up some of the defensive gaps the raptors have and would actually give toronto a chance to make some noise in the east. If you guys are curious i'd say my untradeables in this scenario are Davis, Derozan, Bargs, Calderon and Bayless(i still got faith in this kid).


Any good Cs or SFs coming up for free agency this summer?

[joey_hesketh]

AST/TO ratio doesn't really matter much when talking about your 4/5 though. Like, it's neat, but it's not the benchmark by which they should be evaluated.

But when you make points like 'he turns the ball over like crazy', you should be prepared to deal with stats that disprove this statement.

[joey_hesketh]

Bargs had foul trouble like crazy his 2nd and 3rd years, but he is over it. Amir needs to take that next step too.

How'd he get over it? He just stopped playing defense. haha

[Multipaul]

How'd he get over it? He just stopped playing defense. haha

That's not really fair to say. His man defense is good. And by the way, as much as you might fault his help defense, Amir is just as bad, if not worse. Considering he played for a tough Pistons squad, he should know better.

[Multipaul]

I don't know, I think amir is the raps most well rounded player. Foul trouble was a serious issue last year but he's curbed that problem for the most part this year. Also there's something to be said about a young team with a 4 who can run the floor like amir.

I'd like Bargs to stick around. I do think he's more of a PF than a C and he's got the moves of a top tier guard, unfortunately he's also got the rebounding numbers of one too.

if i had a chance to "fix" the raptors I'd move Bargs to the starting 4 and trade amir (I love the dude but his back problems are worrisome) I'd do what i could to pick up a strong defensive SF to help neutralize all the crazy good 3s in the NBA and last but not least I'd try to pick up a strong in the post and on the glass Centre. I think that would fill up some of the defensive gaps the raptors have and would actually give toronto a chance to make some noise in the east. If you guys are curious i'd say my untradeables in this scenario are Davis, Derozan, Bargs, Calderon and Bayless(i still got faith in this kid).


Any good Cs or SFs coming up for free agency this summer?

I agree with you, i like Amir, but we have a lot of bigs that need nurturing.

There are quite a few C's on the market this summer.

[joey_hesketh]

That's not really fair to say. His man defense is good. And by the way, as much as you might fault his help defense, Amir is just as bad, if not worse. Considering he played for a tough Pistons squad, he should know better.

I know, I know. I'm a Bargs supporter, just a wee Joke.
His man-defense has significantly taken a step back though. At least before I could say he was top-20 in the league in Blocks per game. Now he doesn't even offer that.