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Thread: Trade Deadline Rumors/News: Barbosa And Evans On The Block? (see post #257)

  1. #201
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Doug's Take On It

    I love the people here.

    (Some of them)

    Raptors make a minor trade and everyone’s up in arms and people should be fired, and it’s impossible to believe they couldn’t have received more and we’re talking about a guy who might be a bit player on a 15-41 team, for goodness sakes.

    But I will say this

    I would much rather have a kid, James Johnson, with a year and half of NBA experience and a year and a year a bit left on his contract than the 28th pick in what might be a lockout-chilled bad draft that you’d have to give three guaranteed years to.

    I have no idea if James Johnson can play, no one does because he’s barely been on the floor, and the folks who are excited are just as likely to be right as those who are disappointed.

    It was a minor deal at basically no cost, why not make it?
    If I’m Sonny Weems or Julian Wright, I’m not signing any long-term leases.

    Not that I thought either would be back but Johnson doesn’t make much money ($1.8 million next season), you know Bryan sees the same issues at small forward as all of us do and Johnson’s a guy who probably vaults past Weems and Wright (both of whom have no contract guarantees for next year) right away.
    Source: Doug Smith's Blog

  2. #202
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    And as always Doug speaks for all the sane, rational people in the world.

  3. #203
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Quite a number of teams passed on Hibbert that year. And last time I checked, Indiana was not a Championship team. You're getting a little ridiculous, now. Every team, including the Spurs, miss out on players in the draft. Every team drafts a dud when a good player was available. That's why drafting low is such a crapshoot.

    San Antonio is probably the best at drafting low in the entire NBA, and they've made their share of mistakes. In 2007, the drafted Tiago Splitter, who was projected to go higher, but since San Antonio could afford to wait for him to be available, it was an easy pick. Of course, at the 33rd pick they drafted Marcus Williams, who played 13 games, instead of Glen Davis, who went two spots later. And Marc Gasol even was available.

    In 2005, they drafted Ian Mahinmi, when David Lee was available and went just two spots later. Ersan Ilyasova, Ronny Turiaf and Monta Ellis also could have been taken there. Or Brandon Bass, Amir Johnson and Marcin Gortat. A lot of choice, but the geniuses in the Spurs head office went with a guy who has played a total of 66 games and is having a career high in mpg at 7. Boy, do those guys suck at drafting.

    In 2004, they drafted Beno Udrih, who's not a bad player, but he's certainly no Anderson Varejao who was taken, coincidentally, two spots later and who would probably still be with the team had the Spurs seen fit to draft him. Also available at that spot was Chris Duhon and Trevor Ariza, both of whom play the type of defense that the Spurs like.

    I could go on, but I think you get the point. Pointing to a player a GM passed up on as "proof" he should be fired is a slippery slope since you can make that same case for EVERY GM, including one's that have won Championships.
    so i think a problem here, is that too many people on this forum just make assumptions for no reason

    no where did i say BC should be fired becasue of this ONE trade, or because of this ONE draft pick

    yes EVERY GM makes mistakes in the draft... no one is arguing that


    the point was, you have limited chances to hit the jackpot in the draft, why waste a 1st round pick, on a guy who already another team has given up on, lacks defensive awareness (which is what we desperately need at the SF), and is very immature.

    JJ, is a guy who thibadeau (one of the premier defensive head coaches in the league) did not like, and sent to the d-league

    the point is, could we not have just kept the pick, and at worst, we draft a scrub, who is equivelent to JJ...

    teams do hit the jackpot late in the draft, so to throw away picks seems a bit foolish

    just my opinion, tim. and dont make assumptions to confuse the argument like mango kid, cuz i think you have a bit more sense than that.

    in simpler terms, i would rather play the lottery and try to get a sege ibaka or anderson varajuao, than trade my lottery ticket for a james (im a MMA Fighter) johnson.

    you wrote a pretty long post based on an assumption that i said bc should be fired because of this one draft pick or one trade, can you show me where i said that ?
    Last edited by karim_nasir; Wed Feb 23rd, 2011 at 09:30 AM.

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I agree its a neutral move financially. weems(R), ajinca, dorsey(R), wright(R), evans, barbosa are all free agents at the end of the season which totals about 17M off the books if the raps choose not to bring any of them back.

    We have 3 positions we need to address for next year PG, SF, and C so why not get james johnson on the cheap and put competition at the 3 spot between weems, wright , and johnson and if none of them you like at the end of the season you go into the draft and get a SF. If one or more of those guys becomes a piece for the future give them a incentive driven contract and take your draft pick and get a PG or C.

    I like the pieces in play here because you can bring in a new coach at the end of the season and they can evaluate the personnel keeping the players that they feel best fits their style of play.

  5. #205
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    hate to do this, but it's impoosible to have a decent discussion when poeple make assumptions and misrepresentations...

    for your convenience, i have compiled a list of all of my posts in this thread.

    tim, where did i say BC should be fired because of one trade or one draft pick ?

    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    and you know this how ?

    have you heard of:

    kevin martin
    david lee
    tony parker
    manu ginobli
    ...

    all drafted in the late 20's or in the second round
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    that was off the top of my head, there's literally hundreds...

    d rodman
    hornacek
    rondo
    rashard lewis
    boozer
    arenas
    m. gasol
    varajao
    ariza
    ellis
    milsap


    point is to say that this scrub who couldnt make the bulls rotation (not starting line-up, but rotation) is better than whatever that 1st round pick would have been is WRONG !
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    i would have just kept the pick, and drafted a big...
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    agree, but to say that 100% james johnson is better than anything that we would have drafted with that pick, is not entirely true...

    none of us know
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    i agree, but i just wanted to clarify another poster's comment that JJ will be better than anything that could possibly be drafted with a late 20's pick, which isnt always the case.
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    id rather just keep the pick n draft a big... its too hard to get good bigs through trades or free agency, so the draft is one of the best places to find them...
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    yea but there are still a lot of decent bigs who get drafted in the late 20's or second round... just in the last few years we've seen milsap, landry, big baby, mcroberts, fesenko, m gasol, ryan anderson, koufos, ibaka, batum, deandre jordan, omer asik, mbah a moute, taj gibson, dujuan blair, landry fields (2nd round 2010 39th overall)...

    yea its hit and miss, but you can never have too many decent bigs... and why limit yoursef right ?
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    that't the thing tho... who said anything about having to draft a star ? just need a decent role player... and batum, mbah a mouite, and fields all have played PF this season at some point...

    you're more likely to get a decent role player through the draft then by trading for a former 1st round pick whoze team has given up on him

    how often to players drafted in the 1st round get traded two years into their careers and turn into something ?/

    not many...
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    and omer asik...
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    look up roy hibbert. bc was probably like ahh w/e, that 17th pick wont amount to anything anyway, here you go indiana...

    little things like this is what separates the chronic lottery teams from the champs.
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    no but a good question is why do you always make assumptions ?

    first you assumed that i said we could have drafted a star in the late 1st round

    now you assume that hibbert makes indiana a legit contender...

    do you hear voices in your head ? cuz if you dont then learn how to have a discussion without making assumptions.

    im done with you, go enjoy the post game show, oh shit we got blown out AGAIN
    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    so i think a problem here, is that too many people on this forum just make assumptions for no reason

    no where did i say BC should be fired becasue of this ONE trade, or because of this ONE draft pick

    yes EVERY GM makes mistakes in the draft... no one is arguing that


    the point was, you have limited chances to hit the jackpot in the draft, why waste a 1st round pick, on a guy who already another team has given up on, lacks defensive awareness (which is what we desperately need at the SF), and is very immature.

    JJ, is a guy who thibadeau (one of the premier defensive head coaches in the league) did not like, and sent to the d-league

    the point is, could we not have just kept the pick, and at worst, we draft a scrub, who is equivelent to JJ...

    teams do hit the jackpot late in the draft, so to throw away picks seems a bit foolish

    just my opinion, tim. and dont make assumptions to confuse the argument like mango kid, cuz i think you have a bit more sense than that.

    in simpler terms, i would rather play the lottery and try to get a sege ibaka or anderson varajuao, than trade my lottery ticket for a james (im a MMA Fighter) johnson.

    you wrote a pretty long post based on an assumption that i said bc should be fired because of this one draft pick or one trade, can you show me where i said that ?

  6. #206
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    uh, if it's all the same to you, i'd rather formulate my opinion now, without having to think about it. waiting all the way until the end of the season seems quite labour intensive...i'd rather just decide about these kinds of things & move on. down the road, if i'm proven wrong, i'll just pretend that i either liked him all along, or hated him all along.

    +1!

    Too bad most of the people sitting in front of their computers, nodding their heads won't realize the sarcasm here....

  7. #207
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    Come on man, you can not be this SLOWWW !!! You are just NOT getting it. Johnson is a player who got his time in NBA and has shown he does not have to be a solid starter or even a solid rotational player in this league. This is a fact. Now, the guy might turn it around and ... but so far, with all the opportunities that were given to him, he has failed and has failed badly.

    Now, with a 26-27 picks, some teams in past were able to do their homework right and pick players who were able to contribute and become solid starters or at least ROTATIONAL players in this league.

    Now, is this guaranteed ? Heck no, but we could have not done worst than Johnson with that pick since Johnson is not one already.

    So Stop all the non-sense about contender, game changing player and ... and just think. I am sure you will get it.
    Are you really going to resort to name calling?
    Johnson got his time in the NBA? He's played a smidge over 11 minutes per game in less than a season's worth of games. I'd say that hardly speaks of someone who's had their time.

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    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    so i think a problem here, is that too many people on this forum just make assumptions for no reason

    no where did i say BC should be fired becasue of this ONE trade, or because of this ONE draft pick

    yes EVERY GM makes mistakes in the draft... no one is arguing that


    the point was, you have limited chances to hit the jackpot in the draft, why waste a 1st round pick, on a guy who already another team has given up on, lacks defensive awareness (which is what we desperately need at the SF), and is very immature.

    JJ, is a guy who thibadeau (one of the premier defensive head coaches in the league) did not like, and sent to the d-league

    the point is, could we not have just kept the pick, and at worst, we draft a scrub, who is equivelent to JJ...

    teams do hit the jackpot late in the draft, so to throw away picks seems a bit foolish

    just my opinion, tim. and dont make assumptions to confuse the argument like mango kid, cuz i think you have a bit more sense than that.

    in simpler terms, i would rather play the lottery and try to get a sege ibaka or anderson varajuao, than trade my lottery ticket for a james (im a MMA Fighter) johnson.

    you wrote a pretty long post based on an assumption that i said bc should be fired because of this one draft pick or one trade, can you show me where i said that ?

    I didn't put words in your mouth or confuse the argument. I just fired your words back at you and you backpeddled. It's okay. Just man up.

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    Good, another ball player in James Johnson that is all O(and even streaky at that) and bad D, way to go BC. BC needs to go (go back to your dad, you really suck as a GM ).
    8.5rebs and a block and a half an a steal and a half per game at Wake Forest.

    Here is his game stats from this year and last: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../james-johnson

    He seems active in games he gets any significant burn. There are rebs, assists, steals, blocks. My only concern is he also seems to have a number of turnovers.

    I've read no where questioning his defense except the quoted comment, therefore, I'm assuming that is opinion.

    In nearly half the minutes per game, he puts up very comparable stats to Wright.

    This is a low cost, high reward move. Playing behind the $50M dollar man in Deng and $15M off season signing in Korver is certainly not helping. Deng is also a pretty good player as well.

    The Raps are thin at SF, they just got one - a cheap one at that - who has something to prove - he belongs in the NBA after next season. With Kleiza injured, Weems wasting his shot, and Wright not the answer, this, IMO, is not a bad move.

    What I do question is the draft pick. It seems CHI had more to gain (cap space to get a SG) than TOR did. A future second (maybe teh 2013 back from DAL?) would have sat better with me.

    I do look forward to see what he can bring to the team - especially on the defensive end.

  10. #210
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    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    so i think a problem here, is that too many people on this forum just make assumptions for no reason

    no where did i say BC should be fired becasue of this ONE trade, or because of this ONE draft pick

    yes EVERY GM makes mistakes in the draft... no one is arguing that


    the point was, you have limited chances to hit the jackpot in the draft, why waste a 1st round pick, on a guy who already another team has given up on, lacks defensive awareness (which is what we desperately need at the SF), and is very immature.

    JJ, is a guy who thibadeau (one of the premier defensive head coaches in the league) did not like, and sent to the d-league

    the point is, could we not have just kept the pick, and at worst, we draft a scrub, who is equivelent to JJ...

    teams do hit the jackpot late in the draft, so to throw away picks seems a bit foolish

    just my opinion, tim. and dont make assumptions to confuse the argument like mango kid, cuz i think you have a bit more sense than that.

    in simpler terms, i would rather play the lottery and try to get a sege ibaka or anderson varajuao, than trade my lottery ticket for a james (im a MMA Fighter) johnson.

    you wrote a pretty long post based on an assumption that i said bc should be fired because of this one draft pick or one trade, can you show me where i said that ?
    Your nuts.

  11. #211
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    Johnson could turn out to be a very solid player now that he can get some minutes to proove himself. if you look at the Bulls Forums on this trade they are saying the exact opposite of what many of you are saying. they are actually unhappy that they gave up Johnson for that draft pick. Many fans were very high on him and truely thought if given the chance johnson would do very well in time. They also talk alot about how good his work ethic is, how he slimmed down since his rookie year and dropped the ``should play PF tag alot of ppl put on him in while entering the NBA, and apparently he has been working with scottie pippen alot and also "REQUESTED" for playing time in the Dleague because he wanted to play more and continue to get better. I hope johnson prooves many of you wrong , but even if he has great games there will be tons of complainers.. nothing changes around here.
    I tihnk chicago did this move because they are in win now mode. They now have 4! first round picks. that will get them something prettty decent and they need a sg (OJ Mayo). Chicago didnt give up on him . it was just a stacked team that didint have time to develope him. The same with the Ajinca trade from Dallas. Who might i add played pretty well last game depite the loss. Johnsons had a few decent nights on the bulls his rookie season when he was getting time. Im looking forward to seeing him. J.Johnson and Ed Davis front court could be great.

  12. #212
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    This bickering is going in circles. Let's just wait and see what he can do.

    When's his first game?

  13. #213
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    he's the new raptor's david andersen.. if he can contribute, awesome.. if not, he's cheap, so who cares

  14. #214
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    Joe Johnson is a player that Colangelo traded for from a team who was not happy with the young prospect. At the time it looked like an insignificant move... Look how that one turned out. If the players is young and Colangelo is interested then his track record supports the assumption that it wouldn't be wise to criticize the move until the player has had sufficient time to prove himself.

  15. #215
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Joe Johnson is a player that Colangelo traded for from a team who was not happy with the young prospect. At the time it looked like an insignificant move... Look how that one turned out. If the players is young and Colangelo is interested then his track record supports the assumption that it wouldn't be wise to criticize the move until the player has had sufficient time to prove himself.
    He then signed-and-traded JJ for Diaw; another 'insignificant' move for a guy the Hawks had given up on.

  16. #216
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Joe Johnson is a player that Colangelo traded for from a team who was not happy with the young prospect. At the time it looked like an insignificant move... Look how that one turned out. If the players is young and Colangelo is interested then his track record supports the assumption that it wouldn't be wise to criticize the move until the player has had sufficient time to prove himself.
    Very true. Joe Johnson's stats from his first year in BOS hardly gave the impression of a player destined to be one of hte top players in the league at his position.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    he's the new raptor's david andersen.. if he can contribute, awesome.. if not, he's cheap, so who cares
    The only difference is 6-7 years in age and untapped potential in Johnson versus 'know what you are getting' in Andersen.

  18. #218
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    Johnson could turn out to be a very solid player now that he can get some minutes to proove himself. if you look at the Bulls Forums on this trade they are saying the exact opposite of what many of you are saying. they are actually unhappy that they gave up Johnson for that draft pick. Many fans were very high on him and truely thought if given the chance johnson would do very well in time. They also talk alot about how good his work ethic is, how he slimmed down since his rookie year and dropped the ``should play PF tag alot of ppl put on him in while entering the NBA, and apparently he has been working with scottie pippen alot and also "REQUESTED" for playing time in the Dleague because he wanted to play more and continue to get better. I hope johnson prooves many of you wrong , but even if he has great games there will be tons of complainers.. nothing changes around here.
    I tihnk chicago did this move because they are in win now mode. They now have 4! first round picks. that will get them something prettty decent and they need a sg (OJ Mayo). Chicago didnt give up on him . it was just a stacked team that didint have time to develope him. The same with the Ajinca trade from Dallas. Who might i add played pretty well last game depite the loss. Johnsons had a few decent nights on the bulls his rookie season when he was getting time. Im looking forward to seeing him. J.Johnson and Ed Davis front court could be great.
    Some very solid points in there. I often check other teams TrueHoops affiliated sites but never thought on this. I'm going to go do a little reading myself. Thanks.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The only difference is 6-7 years in age and untapped potential in Johnson versus 'know what you are getting' in Andersen.
    i didnt mean the players are similiar... just the situations..

    if he contributes, great.. they get a solid player for next to nothing.. if he doesn't contribute, no big deal.. they got him for next to nothing

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    Quote karim_nasir wrote: View Post
    so i think a problem here, is that too many people on this forum just make assumptions for no reason

    no where did i say BC should be fired becasue of this ONE trade, or because of this ONE draft pick

    yes EVERY GM makes mistakes in the draft... no one is arguing that


    the point was, you have limited chances to hit the jackpot in the draft, why waste a 1st round pick, on a guy who already another team has given up on, lacks defensive awareness (which is what we desperately need at the SF), and is very immature.

    JJ, is a guy who thibadeau (one of the premier defensive head coaches in the league) did not like, and sent to the d-league

    the point is, could we not have just kept the pick, and at worst, we draft a scrub, who is equivelent to JJ...

    teams do hit the jackpot late in the draft, so to throw away picks seems a bit foolish

    just my opinion, tim. and dont make assumptions to confuse the argument like mango kid, cuz i think you have a bit more sense than that.

    in simpler terms, i would rather play the lottery and try to get a sege ibaka or anderson varajuao, than trade my lottery ticket for a james (im a MMA Fighter) johnson.

    you wrote a pretty long post based on an assumption that i said bc should be fired because of this one draft pick or one trade, can you show me where i said that ?
    I think the problem is that you have to choose your words a little more carefully. I'm not the only one that jumped to the conclusion that you wanted to have Colangelo fired. Stating that "little things like this is what separates the chronic lottery teams from the champs", tells me that you have no confidence in the GM.

    Again, since everyone else seems to have reached the same conclusion as I did, perhaps it's not us, but you.
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