Wow...that happened quickly.

[joey_hesketh]

have you seen jrue holiday play ?

He's not THAT amazing. He is very good. And he will be VERY good. But I think he's gotten a bit overrated by the media.
I love the kid, don't get me wrong, but I think people have a slightly inflated opinion of him.

The fact that he's 6'4" and has the ball on a string is the main reason why people are so high on him, and rightfully so. But he still has ALOT to prove in terms of consistency. Which is where his main problem lies. And until he can be consistent for 82 games, then he will never be mentioned as a great PG. Which he is not right now. Gotta remember at UCLA he was playing SG. He's still learning. Which is more a good thing than a bad thing.

So I guess I agree with you Karim, just adding to your point.

[Matt52]

have you seen jrue holiday play ?

I have. A solid young PG - he is still only 20. Of what they have, he is the most promising by far. One PG does not make a team though - especially a team with the make up and financial handcuffs the 76'ers have moving forward.

[karim_nasir]

I have. A solid young PG - he is still only 20. Of what they have, he is the most promising by far. One PG does not make a team though - especially a team with the make up and financial handcuffs the 76'ers have moving forward.

so in your review of the 76ers, you left him out completely... not sure why you would do that if we're talking about the future of teams in our division, and holiday is probably the biggest and best part of the 76ers future.

[Matt52]

so in your review of the 76ers, you left him out completely... not sure why you would do that if we're talking about the future of teams in our division, and holiday is probably the biggest and best part of the 76ers future.

Because I was speaking of the flaws of the team and why their future success has, in my opinion, plateaued as the team is currently constructed.

While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.

[karim_nasir]

Because I was speaking of the flaws of the team and why their future success has, in my opinion, plateaued as the team is currently constructed.

While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.

oh ok, it was kind of confusing cuz for toronto, you mentioned the possible 20+ppg scorers, and the 2 pf who could get double doubles, and then went on to say some other positives..

oh i get it... you were doing an atlantic division review, but listed all the bad things about the other teams and all the good things about the raptors...

very informative and fair matt.

[karim_nasir]

here is the post i was talking about... you kind of make it sound like the raps are in the BEST situation out of all these teams...

If we are discussing the here and now, valid points above.

If we are discussing the future, as in 2 seasons time, I disagree with the above.

BOS - on last legs if not dismantled.

NYK - a lot of pieces to add to become more than a 1st/2nd round team. Same issue there as Toronto currently faces - adding defensive pieces as scoring is not a problem.

NJ - Williams lustre certainly has faded of late. No doubt the talent is one of the best at PG in the league. Lopez is averaging under 6 rebs per game. They have 7M tied up in Outlaw - worse than Calderon, IMO, as Calderon does actually produce. Few draft picks remaining, little young talent, a star-PG who may very well leave after next season.

PHI - Brand is below his career averages and 32 in less than a month with $35M owed over the next 2 seasons, Williams is a solid back up PG paid 5M per season, AI is not worth his contract and it only gets worse, Turner is a 22 year old rookie who is struggling but will most likely improve, Young is a free agent this year and they have $54M tied up in their team already for next year. My opinion is they are right where they are going to be.

As for TOR, they have 2 players who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers. They have 2 PF's who look able to put up a double/double on a nightly basis. They have young players who might not be stars, all-stars, or even starters but they have talent as the team is quickly filling up with recent first round picks. They have a high draft pick coming (which is going to be extremely crucial for the near future) and some cap space. Even Chuck agreed that TOR has a bright future and BC has done some good things up there of late - notwithstanding the last 2 years.

Those who continue to rightfully go on about defense, look at the acquisitions of late - there is a continuing trend of trying to find athletic players who have shown ability on the defensive end.

This is not meant to be a pro-BC post or a purple-colored glasses response, the reality is for a team that just started a significant rebuild, progress is being made (salaries moved out, young players/reclaimation projects brought in, high draft pick coming, cap space available). Losing the commitment of Calderon/Barbosa for next season (and season after for Calderon) and adding another draft pick would certainly give me more confidence. Hopefully the Raps have a busy draft day and people see the forest through the trees.

btw matt, have you worked for enron or woldcom before ?

[Matt52]

oh ok, it was kind of confusing cuz for toronto, you mentioned the possible 20+ppg scorers, and the 2 pf who could get double doubles, and then went on to say some other positives..

oh i get it... you were doing an atlantic division review, but listed all the bad things about the other teams and all the good things about the raptors...

very informative and fair matt.

Valid point.

But the majority of this thead has been how great the other teams are and how poor the Raps are. Objectivity and presenting both sides of an argument are crucial to a discussion.

[karim_nasir]

Valid point.

But the majority of this thead has been how great the other teams are and how poor the Raps are. Objectivity and presenting both sides of an argument are crucial to a discussion.

good point... didnt think of that.. thanks matt.

[Matt52]

here is the post i was talking about... you kind of make it sound like the raps are in the BEST situation out of all these teams...



btw matt, have you worked for enron or woldcom before ?

If by highlighting the positives on the Raptors and the challenges of other teams within the division in a thread that has been dominated by the exact opposite on a Raptors fan blog arouses such opposition, I would suggest writing Raptors thoughts in a private journal.

As for my opinion, tell me what is not fact or truth?

They do have 2 guys who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers,
they do have 2 guys who look capable of averaging a double/double,
they do have many recent first round draft picks,
they do have a high first round draft pick coming,
they do have financial flexibility and salary cap space coming.

Don't hate, appreciate.

[karim_nasir]

If by highlighting the positives on the Raptors and the challenges of other teams within the division in a thread that has been dominated by the exact opposite on a Raptors fan blog arouses such opposition, I would suggest writing Raptors thoughts in a private journal.

As for my opinion, tell me what is not fact or truth?

They do have 2 guys who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers,
they do have 2 guys who look capable of averaging a double/double,
they do have many recent first round draft picks,
they do have a high first round draft pick coming,
they do have financial flexibility and salary cap space coming.

Don't hate, appreciate.

ok lol, you make an interesting point.

- i would argue that on a playoff team with other scorers, bargs wouldnt get 40 mins and 18 shots per game, so i think his ppg (and rebounding) goes down

-i dont think amir could average a double/double, he can get it once in a while, but not average it for 82 games

the rest i agree with, but you can say that about a lot of lottery teams, and it doesnt always mean good times are ahead

[karim_nasir]

w/e bottom line, BC needs to go !

this will never be a rebuild with bc here, as soon as the team gets close to 500, BC will trade the next 1st round picks for aging vets who are overpaid, and we'll be back to the bosh treadmill days. book it !

enjoy the 4th qtr matt !!

[Matt52]

ok lol, you make an interesting point.

- i would argue that on a playoff team with other scorers, bargs wouldnt get 40 mins and 18 shots per game, so i think his ppg (and rebounding) goes down

-i dont think amir could average a double/double, he can get it once in a while, but not average it for 82 games

the rest i agree with, but you can say that about a lot of lottery teams, and it doesnt always mean good times are ahead

All opinion.... what can I say?

[Matt52]

w/e bottom line, BC needs to go !

this will never be a rebuild with bc here, as soon as the team gets close to 500, BC will trade the next 1st round picks for aging vets who are overpaid, and we'll be back to the bosh treadmill days. book it !

enjoy the 4th qtr matt !!

I most certainly did. Most enjoyable game of the year - especially after coughing up a 9 point 3rd quarter lead.

BC needs to go? tsk tsk tsk. Haters keep hating. lol Luckily, or unluckily???, there is a long way to go to .500.

[karim_nasir]

I most certainly did. Most enjoyable game of the year - especially after coughing up a 9 point 3rd quarter lead.

BC needs to go? tsk tsk tsk. Haters keep hating. lol Luckily, or unluckily???, there is a long way to go to .500.

you'll probably come around in a year or two, dont worry we'll save you a seat on the fire bc bandwagon !

[Matt52]

you'll probably come around in a year or two, dont worry we'll save you a seat on the fire bc bandwagon !

Thanks.

I've said numerous times I could very well be on that wagon, the trade Bargnani train too, this time in a year. The next year is critical for the Raps. At the moment I personally like what I am seeing and the direction the team is going. I'd like to see what BC does next.

Wait another 17 hours for trade deadline to pass, gear up for the final 25 games, gear up for March Madness, endure another Raptor-less playoffs, and bring on draft day.