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Thread: Is BC trying to Surround Bargs with athletic Players ?

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    Default Is BC trying to Surround Bargs with athletic Players ?

    With the addtion of James Johnson it sure looks like it, u look at the starting line up JC, DD, JJ, Amir without including JC can he hide Bargs's weaknasses by sourrounding him with good defending and rebounding players ?
    Last edited by Top5Pick; Thu Feb 24th, 2011 at 06:50 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    First off we are not building around Bargnani, Andrea is just one piece, not "the" piece. Is BC trying to build a team that can take advantage of what we have, sure, what GM doesn't? I liked Johnson's potential coming out of college, he has a decent frame for the 3 spot and could turn into a nice glue guy. It looks like we have 2 scorers in DeMAr and Andrea, filling out the roster with defenders, shooters, rebounders, and 3 option guys is what is being done. If the draft works out we may get a top tier player to take more pressure off the other players we have. We don't have a superstar so we build a team not a one man show.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    First off we are not building around Bargnani, Andrea is just one piece, not "the" piece. Is BC trying to build a team that can take advantage of what we have, sure, what GM doesn't? I liked Johnson's potential coming out of college, he has a decent frame for the 3 spot and could turn into a nice glue guy. It looks like we have 2 scorers in DeMAr and Andrea, filling out the roster with defenders, shooters, rebounders, and 3 option guys is what is being done. If the draft works out we may get a top tier player to take more pressure off the other players we have. We don't have a superstar so we build a team not a one man show.
    I agree with your thoughts. I'm not trying to start a Jose bashing thread but a solid defender at PG (i.e. a PG that does not extremely frequently give up dribble penetration) plus who can score and pass would be wonderful for this team.

    Kyrie Irving?

    "Defensively, Irving won't have any problems from a physical standpoint in the NBA, as he has good size, strength and lateral quickness, even if his wingspan probably won't measure out off the charts. He's already way ahead of where most freshman are on this end of the court too, as he plays with good intensity, has excellent fundamentals, and shows great timing jumping in the passing lanes. Like all freshmen, he has some issues defending off the ball and can get impatient coming out of his stance in long possessions, but these are minor qualms that can and likely will be corrected playing under one of the most respected coaches in all of basketball."

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1Eu5HGU7R
    http://www.draftexpress.com

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    If he's knees are good i wan't enes kanter, you don't often find players like him. But i also wan't irving, if colangelo could orchestrate a trade for a draft pick that would net us both kanter and irving this would be an exciting team to watch.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote pran wrote: View Post
    If he's knees are good i wan't enes kanter, you don't often find players like him. But i also wan't irving, if colangelo could orchestrate a trade for a draft pick that would net us both kanter and irving this would be an exciting team to watch.
    why do you keep putting an apostrophe in "WANT"? not to be the grammar police or anything, but don't do that.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    why do you keep putting an apostrophe in "WANT"? not to be the grammar police or anything, but don't do that.
    What if he wan't's to though?

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    Raptors Republic Starter tonious35's Avatar
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    He better not be building around Bargnani, but trying to implement useful players in this team "system"... *shudders*.

    Bargs is looking like an UN-injured version of Kieth Van Horn, without the terrible experience of dealing with Stephon Marbury. Basically someone who is over 6'10" and shoots jumpers and scores 20pts a game. I'll accept it. He sucks at rebounding and another player must get the rebound, but it would help if Bargs "tried" to get a rebound or "box out".

    There is never any player in the league that can carry a team full of D-League scrubs and win a playoff series. Michael Jordan couldn't do it alone either.

    You need to hope the Raptors can develop two or more All-Stars down the road through draft and development. Not one-time All-Stars, I'm talking about 4 to 5 time All-Stars when playing on the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote tonious35 wrote: View Post
    He better not be building around Bargnani, but trying to implement useful players in this team "system"... *shudders*.

    Bargs is looking like an UN-injured version of Kieth Van Horn, without the terrible experience of dealing with Stephon Marbury. Basically someone who is over 6'10" and shoots jumpers and scores 20pts a game. I'll accept it. He sucks at rebounding and another player must get the rebound, but it would help if Bargs "tried" to get a rebound or "box out".

    There is never any player in the league that can carry a team full of D-League scrubs and win a playoff series. Michael Jordan couldn't do it alone either.

    You need to hope the Raptors can develop two or more All-Stars down the road through draft and development. Not one-time All-Stars, I'm talking about 4 to 5 time All-Stars when playing on the Raptors.


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    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote tonious35 wrote: View Post
    He better not be building around Bargnani, but trying to implement useful players in this team "system"... *shudders*.

    Bargs is looking like an UN-injured version of Kieth Van Horn, without the terrible experience of dealing with Stephon Marbury. Basically someone who is over 6'10" and shoots jumpers and scores 20pts a game. I'll accept it. He sucks at rebounding and another player must get the rebound, but it would help if Bargs "tried" to get a rebound or "box out".

    There is never any player in the league that can carry a team full of D-League scrubs and win a playoff series. Michael Jordan couldn't do it alone either.

    You need to hope the Raptors can develop two or more All-Stars down the road through draft and development. Not one-time All-Stars, I'm talking about 4 to 5 time All-Stars when playing on the Raptors.
    When will people give up on the "he plays centre so he needs to have a ton of rebounds"? Is he that terrible? Looking at his uber-comparison, bargnani gets 5.6RPG and Nowitzki gets 6.6...one whole rebound more..for $17 million dollars a year...one whole rebound more. Defense? That may be another story, but give up the rebound thing already.

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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    When will people give up on the "he plays centre so he needs to have a ton of rebounds"? Is he that terrible? Looking at his uber-comparison, bargnani gets 5.6RPG and Nowitzki gets 6.6...one whole rebound more..for $17 million dollars a year...one whole rebound more. Defense? That may be another story, but give up the rebound thing already.
    The difference is that Dirk has the ability to rebound on a consistent basis, if need be, as his career rebounding average of 8.4 can attest to. And it's not just NOT getting the rebounds, it's allowing his opponents to get them. And by the way, the 6.6 rpg is a 10 year low for Dirk. Bargnani has never even averaged that many once.

    Yes, rebounding IS an issue. As is his defense.
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    Quote Top5Pick wrote: View Post
    With the addtion of James Johnson it sure looks like it, u look at the starting line up JC, DD, JJ, Amir with out including JC can he hide Bargs, weaknasses by sourrounding him with good defending and rebounding players ?
    That has been the theme of a number of threads and posts.

    I do not think it is a secret he is tyring to build an athletic team. I"m not sure I've heard an interview with him in the last year that did not mention athleticism. It is also my opinion that BC is a smart guy who realizes his plan with the Raptors has not panned out. There is definitely a new plan in place.

    I'm also not convinced the team is being built AROUND Bargnani versus being built WITH Bargnani as a piece. He is not paid like a franchise guy. He is the most skilled player on a bad team right now.

    It is performances like last night that make me giddy about the Raptors future. It is performances like 2 nights ago that make me shudder - amazing what 24hours can do to a person.

    Personally, I don't want to see Bargnani go - yet. I'd like another season to see what happens with the re-build and new approach that, in my opinion, BC has taken.

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    Quote Top5Pick wrote: View Post
    With the addtion of James Johnson it sure looks like it, u look at the starting line up JC, DD, JJ, Amir with out including JC can he hide Bargs, weaknasses by sourrounding him with good defending and rebounding players ?
    You can't hide a big man who's a defensive liability. You can try and make up for it, but it will always be exploited at the worst time, especially in the playoffs. It's great if people want to keep Bargnani and try to utilize his strengths, but a team where he plays a large role will always be at a disadvantage in the playoffs. And I"m not fine with that.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You can't hide a big man who's a defensive liability. You can try and make up for it, but it will always be exploited at the worst time, especially in the playoffs. It's great if people want to keep Bargnani and try to utilize his strengths, but a team where he plays a large role will always be at a disadvantage in the playoffs. And I"m not fine with that.
    That sums it right there and neither am i.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You can't hide a big man who's a defensive liability. You can try and make up for it, but it will always be exploited at the worst time, especially in the playoffs. It's great if people want to keep Bargnani and try to utilize his strengths, but a team where he plays a large role will always be at a disadvantage in the playoffs. And I"m not fine with that.
    Trying to surround him with athletic players? Do bears shit in the forest? You can mask it but you can't hide it. Running ISO plays like Bogut on him cannot be hidden. Last night, Rose attacked Calderon and nearly took the game away from us. Adding two or three athletic bodies cannot mask the deficiency. NBA coaches are much smarter than that. They tried the Reggie experiment and it bombed badly as they were playing 4 on 5 in the offensive zone. BBall is a team sport and the better team will always find the weak links and exploit it.

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Trying to surround him with athletic players? Do bears shit in the forest? You can mask it but you can't hide it. Running ISO plays like Bogut on him cannot be hidden. Last night, Rose attacked Calderon and nearly took the game away from us. Adding two or three athletic bodies cannot mask the deficiency. NBA coaches are much smarter than that. They tried the Reggie experiment and it bombed badly as they were playing 4 on 5 in the offensive zone. BBall is a team sport and the better team will always find the weak links and exploit it.
    7-9 is an experiment that bombed? That was record when Reggie went down.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    7-9 is an experiment that bombed? That was record when Reggie went down.
    Seriously Matt, do you honestly feel that our record would be that much better with Reggie in the lineup everyday? I mean 13 rebounds a game for 30 minutes of PT is supposed to last all season long? He was just a ball grabber. I'm not hating but opponents leave him open or give him space only to lose his dribble was the way to play Reggie. Our turnovers were getting really ugly at one point. I know it's been a while but I never forget. Reggie's paint defence wasn't stellar either. And when paired with Bargs, it was simply porous defence at best.

    And correction, the Raps had a 6-10 record. The last loss was the loss in Boston, Nov. 26 (110-101).

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Seriously Matt, do you honestly feel that our record would be that much better with Reggie in the lineup everyday? I mean 13 rebounds a game for 30 minutes of PT is supposed to last all season long? He was just a ball grabber. I'm not hating but opponents leave him open or give him space only to lose his dribble was the way to play Reggie. Our turnovers were getting really ugly at one point. I know it's been a while but I never forget. Reggie's paint defence wasn't stellar either. And when paired with Bargs, it was simply porous defence at best.

    And correction, the Raps had a 6-10 record. The last loss was the loss in Boston, Nov. 26 (110-101).
    Complete disagreement.
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    7-9 is an experiment that bombed? That was record when Reggie went down.
    True dat.
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    You can't hide a big man who's a defensive liability. You can try and make up for it, but it will always be exploited at the worst time, especially in the playoffs. It's great if people want to keep Bargnani and try to utilize his strengths, but a team where he plays a large role will always be at a disadvantage in the playoffs. And I"m not fine with that.
    What if Davis becomes a Ben Wallace/Al Horford hybrid? Davis in time might be able to defend the C.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What if Davis becomes a Ben Wallace/Al Horford hybrid? Davis in time might be able to defend the C.
    WOuld Bargnani still be on the team? It has nothing to do with whether or not Bargnani plays center or PF. If Bargnani is on the floor, he will be exploited.
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