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Thread: Last place anyone?

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Default Last place anyone?

    Question. Would it be the worst thing in the world for us to become the worst team in the league? The game sucked tonight, no doubts about it, but I couldn't help coming back to the though "we need to get a high pick." On ESPN they have an article about how cleveland is going after Irving. I can't see anyone else we'd want to take. we need a floor general with heart. Calderon is good but isn't a leader and Bayless just has attitude. Irving is the only person we should take. So, back to my original question. Would it be so bad if we get last in the league? What do you think?

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    It does not matter how low you go if your GM does not have an eye for talent and giving out the right contracts to the right people.
    It does not matter how low you go if your coach can not implement a defensive system after 3 years or motivate your players to play.

    You can bring Irving and .... this team is flawed at its core. It is team build on scrubs , coached by a scrub and run by a GM who is a fraud and way passed his Golden Days.

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    if cleveland takes him im going over there and murdering they're GM. Or if we get the oppertunity and pass him up i'll murder BC. Our PG's r bad well Jose is good, but offensively he stinks.Bayless is just an undersized SG who can't pass for his life. WE NEED IRVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    Question. Would it be the worst thing in the world for us to become the worst team in the league? The game sucked tonight, no doubts about it, but I couldn't help coming back to the though "we need to get a high pick." On ESPN they have an article about how cleveland is going after Irving. I can't see anyone else we'd want to take. we need a floor general with heart. Calderon is good but isn't a leader and Bayless just has attitude. Irving is the only person we should take. So, back to my original question. Would it be so bad if we get last in the league? What do you think?
    Yes, it would be awful. Nobody wants to be known as the worst team in the league. Pride is invaluable and it not easily regained once lost.

    Having the worst team in the league still only gives you a 1 in 4 shot at the #1 pick.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    how do the ping pong balls work?

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    From Wiki:

    To determine the winner, fourteen ping pong balls numbered 1–14 are placed in a standard lottery machine and four balls are randomly selected from the lot. Just as in most traditional lotteries, the order in which the numbers are drawn is not important. That is, 1-2-3-4 is considered to be the same as 4-3-2-1. So although there is a total of 24 (4!) orders in which the balls numbered 1-2-3-4 can be picked, they are all treated as the same outcome. In doing this, the permutation of 4 balls from 14 becomes the combination of 4 balls from 14. That is, the total of 24,024 (14! / 10!, or 14x13x12x11) possible permutations is reduced by a factor of 24, to 1,001 combinations (or 14! / (10! x 4!)). Of these, 1 outcome is disregarded and 1,000 outcomes are distributed among the 14 non-playoff NBA teams. The combination 11-12-13-14 (in any order that those numbers are drawn) is not assigned and it is ignored if drawn; this has never occurred in practice.

    In the event a lottery pick is traded to another team, the record of the original team (whose pick it was before the trade) still determines eligibility for the lottery, and assignment of chances.

    As of 2008, with 30 NBA teams, 16 qualify for the playoffs and the remaining 14 teams are entered in the draft lottery. These 14 teams are ranked in reverse order of their regular season record and are assigned the following number of chances

    250 combinations, 25.0% chance of receiving the #1 pick
    199 combinations, 19.9% chance
    156 combinations, 15.6% chance
    119 combinations, 11.9% chance
    88 combinations, 8.8% chance
    63 combinations, 6.3% chance
    43 combinations, 4.3% chance
    28 combinations, 2.8% chance
    17 combinations, 1.7% chance
    11 combinations, 1.1% chance
    8 combinations, 0.8% chance
    7 combinations, 0.7% chance
    6 combinations, 0.6% chance
    5 combinations, 0.5% chance

    In the event that teams finish with the same record, each tied team receives the average of the total number of combinations for the positions that they occupy. In 2007, the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Portland Trail Blazers tied for the sixth worst record. The average of the 6th and 7th positions in the lottery was taken, resulting in each team getting 53 combinations (the average of 63 and 43). Should the average number not be an integer, a coin flip is then used to determine which team or teams receive the extra combination(s). The result of the coin flip is also used to determine who receives the earlier pick in the event that neither of the tied teams wins one of the first three picks via the lottery.

    The lottery is conducted with witnesses verifying that all 14 balls are represented once as they are placed in the lottery machine. The balls are placed in the machine for 20 seconds to randomize prior to having the first ball drawn. The remaining three balls are drawn at 10-second intervals. NBA officials determine which team holds the winning combination and that franchise is awarded the #1 overall draft pick. The four balls are returned to the machine and the process is repeated to determine the second and third picks. In the event that a combination belongs to a team that has already won its pick (or if the one unassigned combination comes up), the round is repeated until a unique winner is determined. When the first three teams have been determined, the remaining picks are given out based on regular season record with the worst teams getting the highest picks. This assures each team that it can drop no more than three spots from its projected draft position.

    A simple explanation: 1000 different outcomes of an experiment exist and are equally likely to occur. A certain amount of outcomes is assigned to each non-playoff NBA team. The largest number of outcomes is assigned to the team with the worst record. The team with the second worst record gets the second largest number of outcomes, and so on for each of the 14 teams in the lottery. The experiment is conducted, and the team to which the winning outcome was assigned receives the 1st pick in the NBA Draft. The experiment is conducted again. If the winner is the same team that already won, the experiment is performed over again until there is a different winner. The winner of the second experiment receives the 2nd pick. The winner of the third experiment receives the 3rd pick. After the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks are determined, the 4th-14th picks are assigned to teams based on weakness of record.

    In a case where a lottery team trades its pick to a playoff team, the playoff team assumes the lottery team's position in all draft lottery situations, unless provisioned by the conditions of the trade.

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Tonite was a nitemare. You sit down to watch a game and it is over in about 7 minutes. We had one run. Gave up a 4 point play ...
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Bring it on and let the losses pile. We can conceivably lose til' the end of the season with 23 games left. Wow, Bayless was simply awful tonight. He makes Jarret Jack and TJ Ford look like Mother Teresa passing free rice in the streets of Calcutta. Jesus save this franchise.

    In a thin draft, let the race to the bottom begin. The Phoenix game is just a taste of how the rest of the games will go down. We might as well go down right?
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Fri Feb 25th, 2011 at 11:21 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    It does not matter how low you go if your GM does not have an eye for talent and giving out the right contracts to the right people.
    It does not matter how low you go if your coach can not implement a defensive system after 3 years or motivate your players to play.

    You can bring Irving and .... this team is flawed at its core. It is team build on scrubs , coached by a scrub and run by a GM who is a fraud and way passed his Golden Days.
    I agree one hundred percent, it doesnt matter what players we bring in, if we allow a 105 points a game, we wont make the playoffs lol.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie webcrawler89's Avatar
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    Having the worst record does not guarantee a number 1 pick. History has shown that having somewhere between the 2-5th worst record is more likely to get you the number 1 pick.

    That being said, it doesn't matter who we bring if the team as a whole cannot play defence. You could bring Lebron here and he still wouldn't be able to lead us beyond the 1st round.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Jay Triano has to go that is for sure, the team has made no progress in the three years he has been here. Players have develloped no doubt (Derozan, Bargnani) but the team hasnt improved, especially on the defensive end. Offensively we used to be great, but we have digressed in that regard too, now we are a mediocre offensive team, and a horrible defensive team, where as before we used to be good at scoring atleast. Lack of consistency is a focus problem that the team is having, if one player is having this problem its his fault, but if the team is inconsistent like this it has to be blamed on leadership which ultimately on a young team like this is: the coach.

    If BC is not willing to do what is right and get a coach that has a proven track record of some sort showing that he can teach young players how to defend (Carlesimo) then someone needs to fire him lol.

    As far as tanking, I dont agree with it, I agree with playing our younger players and seeing what we got since we are out of the playoff race thats for sure, but I dont agree with putting our players into the habit of not trying to win everygame. I think it is a given that we will be getting a top 5 pick, as far as the first overall pick that is all luck anyway im sure that we will get a good player. But until the leadership of this team is restructured I am not confident, that we will be able to make the strides that we are trying to achieve.

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    I'm pretty sure that the early entry date for the NBA Draft is May 8th, so we can all mark that as the next key date of the Raptors schedule.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The culture of this franchise and its lack of accountability (for all) is the major cause of all this. If our own star player never gets punished for the lack of effort, the Raptors are simply doomed to fail. The GM can dictate the flavour of their team based on who they bring in, who they draft, and who will coach. We tasted BC for 5 years and personally, I'm ready to taste another GM's take on things. That's just my opinion.
    Last edited by Balls of Steel; Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 10:18 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Blasterfi9's Avatar
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    Do we rly wanna tank even harder? wats the point in tat beside gettin a higher chance of getting higher draft pick ( in a draft class that looks like it may be weak).... we're juss gonna end up with an even shittier reputation....

    Toronto is a place many free agents in Bball prefer not to pick, do we rly want an even worse rep around this place, and become the butt of everyone's joke in this league. We're avoided gettin made fun of constantly, purely because cleveland has become a total joke, just gettin a high draft pick isn't gonna solve anything

    Attracting free agents becomes horrid, and theres no garuntee the man u pick actually becomes a great player. We have our own semi star in Bargs who doesnt seem to be able to amount to greatness, or oden who cant stay on the court, or Wall who's on a team where he doesnt want to be, and wants out. (also his assist to turnovers ratio is way to fucking high)

    Sure we might get the next griffin, or maybe even a lebron, but is it rly worth becoming a complete joke..... the draft is risky, and all i hear is people wanting to lose and lose some more. I don't mind losing but i have a hard time tolerating it on purpose....

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    Default Last place?

    They might as well be last place in the league, especially in SHOOTING!! I remember 2-3 years ago when the Raptors were known for being a "shooting" team. We had great 3 point shooters. Now its like they can not shoot a 3 pointer if their life was on the line. Their shooting is garbage! what is up with the coaching? its so obvious the shooting has become a problem. You cant win a game with 2-7, or 1-9,... 0-18 on the 3 pt line, while the opposing team shoots 8-15 average. That's potentially 20+ points they couldve had. I think its the shooting...streak broken...so many time already this year...and just look at Jose! supposedly perfect a year ago from the free throw line, but missed like 1000 this year! was his streak a year ago a fluke? Jose see you later, Triano see you later already. I cant believe Sam Mitchell was fired so quick and yet here's JT still head coach. Why? because he's Canadian? and everyone will get mad if he gets fired? I wont thats for sure. Bring in Irving!!! that guys exactly what the Raps need....and a new coach of course.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Blasterfi9 wrote: View Post
    I don't mind losing but i have a hard time tolerating it on purpose....
    Well said.

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    Raptors Republic Starter GameBreaker's Avatar
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    This mentality is disgusting. Why watch the games then? To watch and hope they lose? For a CHANCE at a stupid high pick? We pick that person, and what? Problem solved? C'mon, son! *side eye*
    Last edited by GameBreaker; Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 09:47 AM.
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    Does anyone know if Irving will be declaring for the draft or will he be returning to Duke next year?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    What troubles me about this season is that earlier on it seemed like the raps were competing and losing whereas now it just seems like we are losing. Getting the number 1 draft pick would be great but it didn't seem to do that much for us last time we got it. Getting last place doesn't guarantee the number 1 pick anyway. I don't care about wins or losses. The truth is we have a team that has LESS talent (or whatever you want to call it) than most other NBA teams, heck there were predictions that said we wouldn't win 16 games all season! It is not surprising that we have as many loses as we do. However, I do feel like the effort/attitude/culture/mentality is HUGE problem. If the raptors continue with this dismal performance I don't think it matters what draft pick we get. However, i haven't written off Triano or Coangelo just yet, IF the raps can turn it around a little bit (not necessarily with wins) and play some consistent hard-nosed basketball by end the year then there is some hope that a good draft pick could help. At this point Wins and Losses don't matter. Effort and execution does.
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    Question. Would it be the worst thing in the world for us to become the worst team in the league? The game sucked tonight, no doubts about it, but I couldn't help coming back to the though "we need to get a high pick." On ESPN they have an article about how cleveland is going after Irving. I can't see anyone else we'd want to take. we need a floor general with heart. Calderon is good but isn't a leader and Bayless just has attitude. Irving is the only person we should take. So, back to my original question. Would it be so bad if we get last in the league? What do you think?
    Unfortunately, being the last place in the NBA does not guarantee the first pick(look at Boston the year of Tim Duncan, and Nets last year lol) and if we believe in David Stern's conspiracy of choosing the team with a draft pick in a definite way - Cleveland Cavaliers win it this year to mitigate the disastrous leaving of LeBron James.
    Last edited by smushmush; Sat Feb 26th, 2011 at 12:18 PM.

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