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Thread: Calderon "The Facilitator" Vs. The League

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Calderon "The Facilitator" Vs. The League

    APG: 9.2, 5th in NBA
    AP48M: 14.2, 3rd in NBA
    AST/TO: 4.22, 1st in NBA


    Side note FYI:
    ACC Stats
    APG: 10.1
    AP48M: 15.2
    AST/TO: 4.63

    Source: ESPN.com

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    My issue with Calderon is his health, his contract, and his age.

    When he is healthy there is no doubting his abilities. In the back of my mind I'm always waiting for the next injury.

    His contract is what it is - one of those things you have to accept. But if he had played the way he is now the last 2 years, there would be fewer complaints.

    With regards to his age, he won't be the PG to lead this team in the future. The sooner they find one, the better. Maybe next year's draft that will be the focus.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Dude is 4th or 5th in assists. Or as I like to call him, draft day trade bait.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    My issue with Calderon is his health, his contract, and his age.

    When he is healthy there is no doubting his abilities. In the back of my mind I'm always waiting for the next injury.

    His contract is what it is - one of those things you have to accept. But if he had played the way he is now the last 2 years, there would be fewer complaints.

    With regards to his age, he won't be the PG to lead this team in the future. The sooner they find one, the better. Maybe next year's draft that will be the focus.
    Funny comment about his age. Considering Nash, J Kidd, Derek Fisher, etc, all perform well and they are "up there". I assume you mean he is not aging well, in that his talent is tapering off? It might be safer to say his talent level was just never at that superior level. I fully expect D Rose, Rondo, D Will, etc, to continue to improve with age, and as J Kidd would say, learn to be good at new things and understand what they can and cannot do at a certain age.

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Funny comment about his age. Considering Nash, J Kidd, Derek Fisher, etc, all perform well and they are "up there". I assume you mean he is not aging well, in that his talent is tapering off? It might be safer to say his talent level was just never at that superior level. I fully expect D Rose, Rondo, D Will, etc, to continue to improve with age, and as J Kidd would say, learn to be good at new things and understand what they can and cannot do at a certain age.
    And hopefully he learned his lesson and doesn't play in any international competition.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    Jose's defence is much better as well. For the first time in 4 years, he has a positive on/off rating, meaning that the team is better defensively when he is on the court vs. off. His adjusted +/- is also positive. He is having a very good season, for sure.

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    I find the simplest answer is that we need a PG going forward. And we need consistency. I would have no problem with him coming back for at least another year. A bit surprised by the numbers listed above. And impressed.
    “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    he gives up more points than he assist, just saying.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Calderon would be the perfect mentor for the next two seasons for Irving, if the Raps are fortunate enough to draft him. Calderon is a professional on and off the court, puts the team first and is a pass-first PG... everything we want in the PG of the future for this team, which he could pass along to Irving while he transitions to the NBA, especially if he comes out for the upcoming draft after only half of one season of college ball.

    Drafting Irving and keeping Calderon on as a mentor instantly makes Bayless trade bait, which is good, since his age/contract/potential make him a much more valued asset than Calderon.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Mar 3rd, 2011 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Calderon would be the perfect mentor for the next two seasons for Irving, if the Raps are fortunate enough to draft him. Calderon is a professional on and off the court, puts the team first and is a pass-first PG... everything we want in the PG of the future for this team, which he could pass along to Irving while he transitions to the NBA, especially if he comes out for the upcoming draft after only half of one season of college ball.

    Drafting Irving and keeping Calderon on as a mentor instantly makes Bayless trade bait, which is good, since his age/contract/potential make him a much more valued asset than Calderon.
    I wish you were right man, but the Cleveland Fagaliers(Lame, i know) are going to snatch him. Unless they make a retard move and pass him up. If we somehow miraculously got Irving, i'd cry from happiness.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    I wish you were right man, but the Cleveland Fagaliers(Lame, i know) are going to snatch him. Unless they make a retard move and pass him up. If we somehow miraculously got Irving, i'd cry from happiness.
    haha as Raptors fans, we need to start rooting for ping pong balls now!

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    haha as Raptors fans, we need to start rooting for ping pong balls now!
    one of us need to rig the ping pong balls or sum sneaky shit like that.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    one of us need to rig the ping pong balls or sum sneaky shit like that.
    I guess it really comes down to one question: which team/market does Stern want to prioritize, Toronto or Cleveland? haha

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I guess it really comes down to one question: which team/market does Stern want to prioritize, Toronto or Cleveland? haha
    Why don't we just drop a fckin nuclear bomb on Cleveland? jus kiddin, but who knows cleveland might think baron davis is their future(which he's not) and draft someone else.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Funny comment about his age. Considering Nash, J Kidd, Derek Fisher, etc, all perform well and they are "up there". I assume you mean he is not aging well, in that his talent is tapering off?
    The names you dropped are very different players but they have one important similarity. All those guys rely heavily on skill to be effective and not athleticism. this is why they're still highly effective. Talent doesn't diminsh, but the body can/will. Those guys are all in excellent condition too by the way and I'd imagine they have to work a lot harder at that aspect now than ten years ago. Anyway, long story short, Calderon is a skill guy. He doesn't get it done on offense because he can out run or jump anybody. He's not bullying guys around in the post or running over guys in the paint in general. He rarely enters the paint at all unless he see a hole to sneak in the backdoor with a layup. He's has brains. As long as he works very hard on the conditioning side I personally think he can play effective offense in the league into his mid to late 30's. Defense is always gonna be a problem with him and I think that has a lot more to do with things other than athleticism.

    The Russell Westbrook's, Derrick Rose's and John Wall's are the kind of PG's that typically fall off fast when their bodies start to slow down because elite athleticism is what makes them elite. Take that away and you have three average PG's. It's why the Clippers gave away a high lotto pick to get rid of Baron Davis, Steve Francis is getting cut by Chinese pro teams and Marbury is eating vasaline and crying on webcams.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Calderon would be the perfect mentor for the next two seasons for Irving, if the Raps are fortunate enough to draft him. Calderon is a professional on and off the court, puts the team first and is a pass-first PG... everything we want in the PG of the future for this team, which he could pass along to Irving while he transitions to the NBA, especially if he comes out for the upcoming draft after only half of one season of college ball.

    Drafting Irving and keeping Calderon on as a mentor instantly makes Bayless trade bait, which is good, since his age/contract/potential make him a much more valued asset than Calderon.
    If Irving is available when the Raptors draft then they take him because, IMO, he is the best player in the draft. If he is not, they take the best player available. I trust BC's judgement on this 100% - he is a good drafter.

    2012 has some good PG"s coming out.

    It is not like the whole roster doesn't need upgrading - SF needs a legit starter, defensive wings who can hit the 3 would be nice, a solid 4th big is needed preferably a C (anyone else like Pekovic, I'm man crushing him of late), PG needs someone for the future.

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    Our chances of landing Irving aren't great. The Cav's need a point guard and Irving's really the only one available who can contribute right away. (And don't forget, Cleveland also has the Clippers' pick.) Maybe our best bet is to ride Calderon for another year, hope the Raps still suck and they can draft this point guard in 2012: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...7/myck-kabongo

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Funny comment about his age. Considering Nash, J Kidd, Derek Fisher, etc, all perform well and they are "up there". I assume you mean he is not aging well, in that his talent is tapering off? It might be safer to say his talent level was just never at that superior level. I fully expect D Rose, Rondo, D Will, etc, to continue to improve with age, and as J Kidd would say, learn to be good at new things and understand what they can and cannot do at a certain age.
    I mean with the injuries he has had, he most likely is not going to be a fine wine. He doesn't rely on athleticism in his game. As long as his body holds up, he should be fine. But again, it comes back to his health.

    Grant Hill is without a doubt the biggest freak in the NBA when you consider his injury history and what he is doing at 37/38 years of age.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Raptomist wrote: View Post
    Our chances of landing Irving aren't great. The Cav's need a point guard and Irving's really the only one available who can contribute right away. (And don't forget, Cleveland also has the Clippers' pick.) Maybe our best bet is to ride Calderon for another year, hope the Raps still suck and they can draft this point guard in 2012: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...7/myck-kabongo
    +1 - minus the sucking part. But if they do it is a nice consolation prize.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    PG's better than Jose IMO

    Derrick Rose
    Steve Nash
    Rondo
    Derron Williams
    Chris Paul (having a tough time at the moment)
    Stephen Curry
    John Wall

    That makes Jose the 8th best point guard in the league. I'm sure other people will argue that there are a couple others who are better (There is definitely a debate for Jameer Nelson and Jason Kidd) but I guess I'm confused why people are talking like Jose is chopped liver. He is a top 10 pg in the league this season and is only 29. Irving would be great if we get him but to me, this season's Jose is a good enough point guard to start on a title contender and there is no one else on this team you can say that about.
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