The Proof is in the Game:

[Balls of Steel]

Just a pointless and childish rant: the better team won, live with it. It was a collective failure, coaches included. Since u only been to one game i'd say this is a fake ass raps fan making a 'bait' post to draw out bargs fans and sh*t on them. dude only been to one game and he think he know hoops. Without bargs we'd have been blown out.

Correction: Without Bargs we would've been blown out but the defensive effort would be better. I mean the "king" was sitting on the bench during the game's most critical parts (ie. defending New Jersey's last possession for the last 2 overtime quarters). As for his last-minute Lebron impersonation, he bombed, badly, twice. In what is supposed to be his forte - his scoring, it was embarrassingly bad. End of story.

[Raptor4Ever]

I took a nap, my head is a bit more cleared up now. I knew people would come out and defend Bargs. Look, I'm not saying he didn't play well today, but he didn't make the buckets when we needed him to. Neither did Derozan (dude was throwing up bricks after the 4th for most of it.) or Calderon, who didn't shoot after the 4th and recorded only 1 assist in 3 OT's.

How about the rest of those cats ?? Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Bayless and Weems !!!

If we're gonna say this guy is our franchise player, then we have to hold him to a franchise players standards.
.

Who said he is a franchise player ? Where are you getting this from ? AB is not getting paid even close to a franchise player and is a 2nd option in a good team. The problem here is that BC has gathered few scrubs and D-league players ( The Johnsons) and now, everyone here assumes AB is the franchise player !!

it was a shitty play to begin with, and I blame Triano first and foremost, But for the players,I mostly blame Bargs. Then I blame all the other players who messed up the little things they should have done.

You should limit your blame to coach and the GM which hired him. When was the last time Jay draw a play that was effective !!!

But what's the point? I'm not gonna change anyone's mind. Here's a more important question. IF we do draft Irving at say number 1 or we get Irving somehow, how long before Bargs is no longer our franchise player? Will he always be our franchise player so long as he's here? If so, why, and if not, why not? State your reasons.

3 years down the road, who takes the shot? Who gets the blame? When do we as fans start looking at the mistakes this team makes as a whole instead of individuals? (and again, I've criticized other players, not just Bargs, but he gets it the most, because he's our star).

AB is not a franchise player and so is your question is irrelevant. However, till we have scrubs like James Johnson and Amir Johnson and Bayless starting for us, then AB will be the best player in this bunch and most of the plays will be called for him

[webcrawler89]

You know what, Go F*** yourself Multipaul, just because I've only BEEN to one game doesn't mean I haven't been watching this team's games on tv for WELL OVER A DECADE NOW.

Raptors were in their 2nd season when I came to Toronto Dec. '96, first time I ever heard of the game basketball. I remember getting some little spongy Vancouver Grizzlies mini-basketball from some cereal (I've since lost it). I really started watching the Raptors in '99-2000, and been watching them since (yes it's been a little on and off between some seasons, but I still followed them through the news).

Still, F*** you again Multipaul, just cuz I don't think Bargs is a great player doesn't give you any right to question my credibility as a fan.

[Balls of Steel]

You know what, Go F*** yourself Multipaul, just because I've only BEEN to one game doesn't mean I haven't been watching this team's games on tv for WELL OVER A DECADE NOW.

Raptors were in their 2nd season when I came to Toronto Dec. '96, first time I ever heard of the game basketball. I remember getting some little spongy Vancouver Grizzlies mini-basketball from some cereal (I've since lost it). I really started watching the Raptors in '99-2000, and been watching them since (yes it's been a little on and off between some seasons, but I still followed them through the news).

Still, F*** you again Multipaul, just cuz I don't think Bargs is a great player doesn't give you any right to question my credibility as a fan.

Don't fall for Paul's bait bro. This is the type of "fan" he is:

If the Raps lose, the rest of the team was the reason.
If the Raps wins, it's because of Barg's 21 points and 6 rebounds.
Bargs is King, Long Live King Bargs
Bargs is Tupac.

There you go. Don't fall to this troll's bait.

[Raptors_]

You know what, Go F*** yourself Multipaul, just because I've only BEEN to one game doesn't mean I haven't been watching this team's games on tv for WELL OVER A DECADE NOW.

Raptors were in their 2nd season when I came to Toronto Dec. '96, first time I ever heard of the game basketball. I remember getting some little spongy Vancouver Grizzlies mini-basketball from some cereal (I've since lost it). I really started watching the Raptors in '99-2000, and been watching them since (yes it's been a little on and off between some seasons, but I still followed them through the news).

Still, F*** you again Multipaul, just cuz I don't think Bargs is a great player doesn't give you any right to question my credibility as a fan.

i'm with you, i don't care how much bargs scores, but if he doesn't play defence or make clutch shots then he should just go back to italy and eat pasta or sumthing. I'd prefer the raptors to win a championship in this century.

[webcrawler89]

@ Raptor4Ever:

I don't think he's a franchise player, a lot of people here do though, so I'm trying to make my point based on that assumption.


And yeah, I didn't really get into it, but I don't think anyone really played well through out the whole game except for Ed Davis and Barbosa. Derozan started to miss a lot of shots, Jose stopped facilitating and then eventually being a factor at all. Personally, I think both AJ and JJ were outhustled and outmatched in both games. With regards to JJ especially, this might be him actually settling into our team (I hope not though).

[Bendit]

true but he is not a clutch player he can't make big time shots. One thing i've learn from watching the NBA is that Europeans can't make clutch game winners for their life.

You are then probably not old enough to have seen Peja Stojakovic, Pau Gasol, Dirk Novitzki, Toni Kukoc etc to do so. Have you heard of Manu Ginobli (yes he is Argentinian but I'll give him a pass) or Parker.

[WhatWhat]

As being pro-tank, I'm pretty good right now. We can definitely catch up to the Wizards.

Bayless and Davis played well throughout the entire game.

I never considered White Swan to be a franchise player either.

I feel you on HOW we're losing, than losing at all as well. That frustration you're feeling now, is apathy and disinterest for me.

[Deadallus]

I think you guys are being a little harsh. I mean, to say they played like crap is a little overboard. They weren't great sure, but they hung in there and battled for through 4 quarters and 3 OT's. Ranting about the poor decisions Bargs made is legit, but to say they played like crap I think is a little much.

Don't forget Outlaw and Vujacic made some big shots, and both have been struggling all year.

Its disappointing, but losses like this I can deal with any day. Losses like the one against Minnesota a few weeks back are the ones I can't tolerate.

[jrdyck]

I would like to point out the 2 charges that Bargs took on Brook Lopez to get him fouled out of the game, the season-high 12 rebounds, the season-high 10 free throws, and the 3 clutch three-point plays scored in the final minute of each OT period.

Yet here we are condemning him for one questionable decision made in the last 10 seconds of the game. Yikes.

[bloodyhandedgod]

Bargs made some absolutely clutch plays in this game's overtime including a big three, two three point plays where he finished despite getting floored, and taking a Brook Lopez charge to get him ejected. People will look at those two iso plays and say he fucked up the game but the honest truth is Jay called an iso for his best player to win the game, the other team sent someone shorter and faster to guard him, so Bargs tried to make space and shoot over him. It may not have been a great shot choice but it is one we have seen Bargs make with some regularity.

I guess my question is what other play should we have called? The Derozen Iso might have worked but I really can't think of much else.

Absolutely. AB did a lot of good in the game. I might be pissed he chose to do what he did, but I am not blaming him. Just his decision making. Showed he still has a lack of confidence in the clutch. It will come.

[Balls of Steel]

I would like to point out the 2 charges that Bargs took on Brook Lopez to get him fouled out of the game, the season-high 12 rebounds, the season-high 10 free throws, and the 3 clutch three-point plays scored in the final minute of each OT period.

Yet here we are condemning him for one questionable decision made in the last 10 seconds of the game. Yikes.

The last two plays for each overtime period was for AB. He blew both in the same spot, guarded by the same player. He had 9 seconds to do it. He wanted to do his trademark 20-foot pump-fake but Humphries didn't bite. As the "king" of this franchise, don't you think he could have done more with the ball in both occasions? Let's call a spade a spade here shall we?

[ceez]

Dont worry guys, Barnes and Derozen will be taking these shots next season.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

The last two plays for each overtime period was for AB. He blew both in the same spot, guarded by the same player. He had 9 seconds to do it. He wanted to do his trademark 20-foot pump-fake but Humphries didn't bite. As the "king" of this franchise, don't you think he could have done more with the ball in both occasions? Let's call a spade a spade here shall we?

I am getting really sick and tired of the excessive negativity that has been growing day by day on this site... the Raps are playing pretty much at the level they were expected to at the beginning of the season. In the offseason, everybody said that giving our best young players time to play and grow on the court, through success and/or failure, is what will measure the success of this season.

I am a Bargnani supporter, as strong as there is on this site. Not once have I ever referred to him as a "franchise player". I don't put unfair expectations on him just because of when he was drafted. He is this team's best player this season, offensively. He had a great game. So he missed the potential game-winning shot. Big deal. Lots of shots were missed during the game. Many hall-of-fame calibur players have missed many a game winning shot... MJ, Magic, Kobe, LeBron, etc... nobody is perfect. Bargnani kept the Raps in this game and this is after being sick, flying to England, on the second night of a back-to-back in a game that went to triple overtime!

Yes we could have won, but we didn't. I get sick of people who look at the last couple plays of a game and make their judgements of the game based on those few plays... the game is decided throughout the entire 48 minutes of play and there can be many mistakes and missed shots that could be viewed as being missed opportunities that cost the Raptors the game. We lost. Big deal. Next game...

[bloodyhandedgod]

true but he is not a clutch player he can't make big time shots. One thing i've learn from watching the NBA is that Europeans can't make clutch game winners for their life.

Bullshit.

Now: Parker. Ghinobli. Nowitski.