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Thread: 2011 Draft Rumors & Discussion

  1. #1821
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    My final list before knowing the lottery order and assuming we do not get another pick(s):

    Kyrie Irving, Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Kemba Walker, in that order.

    Since we could drop to 6th the only other to consider are Jonas Valenciunas, Brandon Knight and Jan Vesely.

  2. #1822
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Switch Burks with Kemba and you got mine.
    @jerboat

  3. #1823
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Switch Burks with Kemba and you got mine.
    Would you pick Burks in top 6 though? I would say if we had Charlotte's pick sure I would take him but in top 6 I think it might be hard to justify.

  4. #1824
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on Burks and a good Knight player comparison

    Some people have suggested Burks could go that high and has great potential. He could be a PG or a SG in the NBA depending on how his club wants to develop him. He would be a pretty big PG.

    I just thought of an excellent player comparison for Brandon Knight. Antonio Daniels 2.0. Daniels actually performed better than Knight in college by the way.

  5. #1825
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Some people have suggested Burks could go that high and has great potential. He could be a PG or a SG in the NBA depending on how his club wants to develop him. He would be a pretty big PG.

    I just thought of an excellent player comparison for Brandon Knight. Antonio Daniels 2.0. Daniels actually performed better than Knight in college by the way.
    Undoubtedly I would like to have him, especially with his versatility 1-3 leaving many options with rotations. But I have yet to see a professional mock (hell even an unprofessional one) that has him in the top 6. 8-14 is all I have seen for months and now (just double checked with all the dropouts from the draft.)

    I would be willing to bet the Raptors world would be all over Colangelo for taking Burks in top 6. I am all for grabbing another pick to take him though, and probably wouldn't throw my show at the TV if they do take him outside the top 3 (assuming Irving, Kanter and Williams are gone). But wow I can imagine RR the next day or even that night with the comments and debates if it happens.

  6. #1826
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I'm really high on Burks but it's more of a personal thing. The way I see it, if we can't get a impact starter, why not a quality sixth man? It's just a preference, I guess.
    @jerboat

  7. #1827
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    Frankly I'd like to see him learn and play PG but who knows. At worst, he's the first guy off the bench at 3 positions.
    @jerboat

  8. #1828
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I just thought of an excellent player comparison for Brandon Knight. Antonio Daniels 2.0. Daniels actually performed better than Knight in college by the way.
    That's a terrible comparison for Brandon Knight
    @Chr1st1anL

  9. #1829
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    But I have yet to see a professional mock (hell even an unprofessional one) that has him in the top 6. 8-14 is all I have seen for months and now (just double checked with all the dropouts from the draft.)
    Mock drafts aren't the unquestioned word of God or anything. They rarely get it all right. Let's take '09 for an example.

    Wayback machine archive NBAdraft.net update June 22, 2009
    Final draft results courtesy of NBAdraft.net

    What do we see in particular? Well, we see Tyreke Evans, who Burks has a comparable game to, being mocked in at 8th by the very credible guys at NBAdraft.net. The final result had him going at 4th and if my memory is correct no one was slotting him that high. He of went on to win ROY honors. Burks is slotted in at 8th right now.

    Russell Westbrook has a similar story.

  10. #1830
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I just thought of an excellent player comparison for Brandon Knight. Antonio Daniels 2.0. Daniels actually performed better than Knight in college by the way.
    man how can you even compare their college careers? knight was the highest impact player on arguably the most storied school in NCAA history, as a freshman. daniels played four years at fucking bowling green. and FWIW knights numbers at that age are far better, without even considering the context.

    also, i pointed it out during the tourney but walker also totally shit the bed in his first final four appearance. 5 pts, 20% shooting, 1:2 assist to turnover ratio. if you wanna project knight as a prospect you cannot ignore his age.

  11. #1831
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    I watched those games. Walker played far better than his stats implied and outplayed Knight in the final. Not to mention they would have never even made the tournament if Walker hadn't carried them there. They had a totally depleted squad. No depth, little talent outside a few key guys and Walker delivered big all season while kicking ass in class and finishing his degree early. Walker is athletic, highly skilled and very smart. The only real reasons people bring up that they don't want him is that

    a.) He shot the ball a lot so he "must" be a chucker. Not true, his A:T was through the roof and he shot so much because he was asked to due to a lack of depth.

    b.) He's not a great shooter. Not true when it's clutch time and any issues with his shot can easily be cleared up with hard work and good coaching. He's known for being one of the hardest worker on his team and he will get world class coaching in the NBA.

    c.) He's short. Well, his team page lists him at 6'1" and most other places list him at 6'0-6'1". That's not bad for a PG seeing how arguably the two best in the league are around that size. I'm talking Rondo and Paul. Walker is just as fast and athletic as those guys and he prides himself on defense, just like Rondo did when entering the pros.

    The main reason people bring up for Knight is "size". Second is upside. What about his inconsistent shot? How's his ball IQ compared to Walker? How's his maturity, work ethic and leadership skills compared to Walker? Walker is not like many of the flashy NYC PG of the past decade that entered the league. He's not selfish. He is mature. He does work hard. He does respond to coaching. He likes defense. He is a good leader.

  12. #1832
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    While Kemba was solid this year in college, he reminds me a lot of Johnny Flynn, and I'm not so sure Kemba's transition to the NBA will be smooth. Taking Kemba at #3 would be a pretty big risk. If I was Utah, then I might be thinking Kemba.

    On the subject of undersized PGs, if we picked up a second round pick, I would be up for taking a chance on Isaiah Thomas from Washington. He reminds me a bit of Nate Robinson.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

  13. #1833
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I watched those games. Walker played far better than his stats implied and outplayed Knight in the final. Not to mention they would have never even made the tournament if Walker hadn't carried them there. They had a totally depleted squad. No depth, little talent outside a few key guys and Walker delivered big all season while kicking ass in class and finishing his degree early. Walker is athletic, highly skilled and very smart. The only real reasons people bring up that they don't want him is that

    a.) He shot the ball a lot so he "must" be a chucker. Not true, his A:T was through the roof and he shot so much because he was asked to due to a lack of depth.

    b.) He's not a great shooter. Not true when it's clutch time and any issues with his shot can easily be cleared up with hard work and good coaching. He's known for being one of the hardest worker on his team and he will get world class coaching in the NBA.

    c.) He's short. Well, his team page lists him at 6'1" and most other places list him at 6'0-6'1". That's not bad for a PG seeing how arguably the two best in the league are around that size. I'm talking Rondo and Paul. Walker is just as fast and athletic as those guys and he prides himself on defense, just like Rondo did when entering the pros.

    The main reason people bring up for Knight is "size". Second is upside. What about his inconsistent shot? How's his ball IQ compared to Walker? How's his maturity, work ethic and leadership skills compared to Walker? Walker is not like many of the flashy NYC PG of the past decade that entered the league. He's not selfish. He is mature. He does work hard. He does respond to coaching. He likes defense. He is a good leader.
    you're defending walker as if i was attacking him. i don't mean to bust on walker. i like him, and i like knight. i agree with everything you said here about kemba, and i also agree that he is the safer pick. i just happen to think knight has a higher ceiling. i honestly have no idea who i'd pick between the two. i guess it depends on how you feel about potential vs. likely production.

    anyhow, i think it's really hard to compare the two based on the 10-11 seasons alone, even in head to head match-ups, because players develop. just like walker, knight absolutely carried his team at times and won games for them to get them to the final four. and just like walker in his freshman season, knight had some duds. (for the record, while kemba was terrible against MSU in the 09 final four, he had a huge game against mizzou in the elite eight, which is the first impression he had on me.).

  14. #1834
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I agree Biyombo fills a bigger need but, you never draft for need.
    You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

  15. #1835
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

    Actually the NBA has pretty much set how much draft picks get paid by draft slot. At #3 pick he would be guaranteed $4.2M with set raises per year.

  16. #1836
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.
    ... Yes it is. The Rookie Pay Scale is a HUGE factor in terms of who and where you are picking.

    One of the big issues for the Last CBA was the Rookie Pay Scale.

    If we draft someone with the intention of them NOT coming in and having an immediate impact, then not only do you NOT want to be paying them $4-5M, but you also don't want to waste a high pick, where by we could make the Selection of 'Best Player Available' and then Trade the asset down the line if the player is deemed expendable and not part of the future plans. But to say, 'draft someone who is clearly less talented and less experienced, and less skilled JUST because they are Less Talented and Less Experienced, is a bit silly. We need as much Talent on this team as possible. Whether its for the Near Future or the Long Term outlook, Talent = Assets. We need ALL the assets we can get.
    Last edited by Joey; Thu May 5th, 2011 at 03:34 PM.
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  17. #1837
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.
    If they wanted a 26 year old center then why not just go sign one?

    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    While Kemba was solid this year in college, he reminds me a lot of Johnny Flynn, and I'm not so sure Kemba's transition to the NBA will be smooth. Taking Kemba at #3 would be a pretty big risk. If I was Utah, then I might be thinking Kemba.
    He's no more of a risk than any other option at #3 in this draft. They're all risks. For the record, he's not my pick at #3 but if they're looking for a PG then he's not that far behind Irving.

    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    On the subject of undersized PGs, if we picked up a second round pick, I would be up for taking a chance on Isaiah Thomas from Washington. He reminds me a bit of Nate Robinson.
    Thomas is 5'8". Walker is 6'1" (as listed on his team website). What do you call undersized? Irving is only 6'2". Rajon Rondo and Chris Paul are around Walker's height and I don't hear anyone calling them undersized PG.

  18. #1838
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    [/B]
    Actually the NBA has pretty much set how much draft picks get paid by draft slot. At #3 pick he would be guaranteed $4.2M with set raises per year.
    In the NFL they get 50-60 million guaranteed at #1 and only slightly less up till #10.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If they wanted a 26 year old center then why not just go sign one?
    It's EXTREMELY unlike that he's 26.

  19. #1839
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    Alright, well the rumor is 23-26. Even if 23 is his age, where he's at now if he's 23 does not warrant a top three pick. Probably not a top ten pick either. Players at 23 have a far lower ceiling than players with the same abilities at age 18.

  20. #1840
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    I don't really care about age mainly because when you draft a 18 -19 year old they haven't learned the game yet and while they are talented are going to spend 2 - 3 years learning. If we are drafting in the lottery I want a player that is going to produce right now and keep producing for the next 6 - 7 years. I personally don't like paying kids big money when they are not ready for it. If kemba was a inch or 2 taller when would be hands down the number one pick in the draft, no questions asked.

    I watched every game of his in both tournaments and he plays near perfect basketball thats the reason he did not lose 1 tournament game this year (maui, big east, and NCAA). he is not the greatest shooter but he doesn't take bad shots.

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