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Thread: 2011 Draft Rumors & Discussion

  1. #1841
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Fine but how does that apply here? Whether the guy is 23 or 18, that doesn't change his game right now. I'm talking about the future. The reason the guy is a potential lotto pick is because of perceived upside due to his listed age of 18. If he's 23 then suddenly his upside is greatly reduced. His game right now is exactly the same no matter if reality is that he's 18, 23 or 26. His future is a lot different if he's 18, 23 or 26 with his current game.

  2. #1842
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I wasn't commenting directly to you apollo just kinda spiting out my thoughts on the age thing but for example irving vs kemba, who would you pick? I would pick kemba because I know exactly what I am getting, irving may one day play as solid as kemba but right now IMHO kemba is better. In kemba I see rondo and irving I see tru holiday.

  3. #1843
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    That's a tough one because I'm a huge Kemba Walker fan. The kid is such a great player and person. I feel he's going to be a very nice player and he deserves it as much as anybody. Irving has all the hype but I didn't get to see him play hardly at all this year. I want to say Walker but it's tough to hurdle over the Irving hype.

  4. #1844
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Alright, well the rumor is 23-26. Even if 23 is his age, where he's at now if he's 23 does not warrant a top three pick. Probably not a top ten pick either. Players at 23 have a far lower ceiling than players with the same abilities at age 18.
    Well its sjust that. A rumor. Pretty much all international african player have to deal with this BS. The test proved he's 18 at most. If you have proof (not some guys speculating, proof) that he's 23 to 26 post it.

  5. #1845
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    exactly its very tough to pick I don't envy these GM's at all especially BC who's job is probably on the line with this draft. it's potential vs what you know. I could make the same argument for faried vs biyombo that is if he is 18 -19 years old, right now they have biyombo going after faried on draftnet but not too long ago he was a top 5 pick.

  6. #1846
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    Well its sjust that. A rumor. Pretty much all international african player have to deal with this BS. The test proved he's 18 at most. If you have proof (not some guys speculating, proof) that he's 23 to 26 post it.
    How do you know it's just a rumor? Please show me this test.

  7. #1847
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    exactly its very tough to pick I don't envy these GM's at all especially BC who's job is probably on the line with this draft. it's potential vs what you know. I could make the same argument for faried vs biyombo that is if he is 18 -19 years old, right now they have biyombo going after faried on draftnet but not too long ago he was a top 5 pick.
    He's all over the place as a pick. Players that are generally around the same area makes sense, but scary when a player is from 5-25(!) on well respected mocks (if you can call a mock that). I like the idea of Biyombo, but if someone picks him top-10 it's a huge stretch and a career decision.

  8. #1848
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    How do you know it's just a rumor? Please show me this test.
    Agent Claims He Can Prove Biyombo's Age
    Apr 18, 2011 10:33 AM EDT
    Many NBA scouts and executives believe Bismack Biyombo is older than his listed age of 18.

    Coaches who have worked with Biyombo earlier in his career while he was still in Congo think he's “no older than 20 at most,” while Biyombo's agent, Igor Crespo, has evidence that proves Biyombo is even younger.

    Crespo claims he took Biyombo to a specialist to conduct a bone age study immediately upon his arrival in Spain. The study involves taking x-rays of an adolescent's wrist and hand to see if his growth plates are still open. Because the cartilage in Biyombo's hand hadn't fused at that point, the specialist came to the conclusion that he could be 16 or 17 at most, but not 18, when growth plates are expected to be closed.

    This obviously rules out the possibility of Biyombo being five to eight years older than he's listed, as the wild speculation we've seen recently on the Internet indicates. Crespo says he will willingly share these x-rays with any NBA team that requests them.
    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...e_Biyombos_Age

  9. #1849
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    How do you know it's just a rumor? Please show me this test.
    The bone test 2yrs ago showed he was less than 18 and therefore plausibly 16:
    http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/doctor...e-test-biyombo

    If this test was truly Biyombo's x-ray, then there is no question, HOWEVER the conspiracy theorists out there are now saying there is no way to know to trust the Spanish medical records (this is not Madagascar). It could be an x-ray of someone else. That said, what benefit does the Spanish medical community get out of it. His agent, obvious, but the Docs...?

    It is interesting to watch and wonder if the rumours about his age, and they are ALL just that high or low even with this medical evidence, are started by teams who want him to drop in the draft, or are simply scared at the potential truth.

  10. #1850
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Well, if there is so much doubt one would think he would simply just come out and undergo a test deemed acceptable by the teams interested. There is a lot of money on the line for him here.

  11. #1851
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well, if there is so much doubt one would think he would simply just come out and undergo a test deemed acceptable by the teams interested. There is a lot of money on the line for him here.
    I would agree, but what test would that be? The blood test is apparently good +-9yrs, that's useless. The x-ray is only good up to around 18yrs old. There appears no other test available that will identify his age...that is unless they pull out a tooth. I think I remember something about being able to identify somehow that way. Maybe that was a cheesy movie. At the end of the day if there was a definitive test, the teams would force him to take it. Seeing as how that's not happening or being spoken about, there isn't.

  12. #1852
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The same test he just took two years ago, except with American doctors in an American institute?

  13. #1853
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The same test he just took two years ago, except with American doctors in an American institute?
    Surely, but the test apparently tests if someone's wrist bones have fused yet. In the xray they had not. They generally do by 18yrs old, so likely not an accurate test any longer. (of course for conspiracy theorists, convenient timing).

  14. #1854
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Alright. One thing right off the bat. Ruling people out by taking advantage of the negative stigma associated with the term "conspiracy theorist" is a little bit of a cop out in my opinion. Conspiracies DO exist, have happened in the past and will happen in the future. There is nothing wrong with theories of conspiracies because sometimes they're correct. The problem with most conspiracy theories is the people coming up with them. To rule them all as bunk is irresponsible. To take everyone at face value is niaeve. Asking questions is important. Its a lost art. Now that I got that off my chest I would be interested in seeing all the facts behind this claim that he could be 26. Even if there is a shade of doubt it's worth considering, especially for a team with a likely top three selection.

  15. #1855
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Default Biyombo's Age

    According to experts, radiographic examination of the hand for forensic age diagnostics is flawed for several reasons:

    a) the research this technique is based on is from the 1930s and 1977, and was done on a homogeneous population (i.e., middle class white males)
    b) A relatively low socio-economic status delays development and is thus conducive to the underestimation of a subject’s age.
    c) no ethnically diverse reference studies
    d) still no satisfactory way to scientifically determine the margin of error

    To estimate the age of someone between 18 and 26, a radiographic examination of the progress of ossification of the cartilage at the sternal end of the clavicle is necessary

    http://www.glnbi.org/documenti/606a9...92dc128a0f.pdf
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

  16. #1856
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    Default Kemba Walker's Height

    I would say that Kemba is undersized. I would say he is 5'9" or maybe 5'10". Here are pictures of Kemba taken with Shabazz Napier who is listed as 5'11".





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  17. #1857
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Alright. One thing right off the bat. Ruling people out by taking advantage of the negative stigma associated with the term "conspiracy theorist" is a little bit of a cop out in my opinion. Conspiracies DO exist, have happened in the past and will happen in the future. There is nothing wrong with theories of conspiracies because sometimes they're correct. The problem with most conspiracy theories is the people coming up with them. To rule them all as bunk is irresponsible. To take everyone at face value is niaeve. Asking questions is important. Its a lost art. Now that I got that off my chest I would be interested in seeing all the facts behind this claim that he could be 26. Even if there is a shade of doubt it's worth considering, especially for a team with a likely top three selection.
    Apollo, first off, I love conspiracy theories, have some, and very much follow them. I have been exposed to way too many things to discount them. I have not above, nor ever dispute that some are real or founded, never said otherwise, nor should anyone fail to ask questions whether something is in doubt or not. I was not, above, subscribing for or against either rumour/theory. As for the claim for his age, if I recall correctly it is all because there are those who do not believe he should be as physically developed as he is. I have not seen anything beyond that visual question mark.

    Secondly, as stated in this thread and elsewhere on RR, I in no way support taking Biyombo with the 3rd pick, have stated directly less than 10 comments ago that he would be a stretch for even top-10 (a career decision bad or good), and I would extend that to lottery maybe even top-20. Many 'experts' are leery of re-judging a player simply by his performance in the tournament, and yet so many are jumping on a bandwagon after A game. I express caution.

  18. #1858
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Multiple people in here have been supportive of him at the #3 pick. I must have mistaken you as one of them I guess.

  19. #1859
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Multiple people in here have been supportive of him at the #3 pick. I must have mistaken you as one of them I guess.
    I can see how that could happen. I saw the question you had about source of test, knew I had read it and sourced it for you.

  20. #1860
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default HoopsWorld.com Like Valanciunas @ #3

    Four out of five writers are Hoopsworld.com taking part in a "consensus mock draft" slotted Valanciunas in at #3. There was a indecision at virtually every other pick besides this one.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat May 7th, 2011 at 09:03 AM. Reason: HoopsWorld

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