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Thread: NBA Expansion in Montreal: Five Reasons Why Canada Deserves a Second NBA Team

  1. #21
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    ADD: And Apollo, I am from Montreal, living in Toronto, and I can tell you the Basketball fans in Montreal are numerous. 22,000 showed up for a preseason game!
    That is because it was one game, like a special occasion. But what's more important, is that many players won't want to go to Montreal. And I honestly think Seattle deserves to get a team before Montreal ever does.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    There's a lot that happened in Vancouver that is not common knowledge. They were so badly managed, it wasn't funny. And that was before they were bought by an owner who had no intention of keeping the team in Vancouver. I have a close friend who worked for the Grizzlies and I heard plenty of stories. I can't tell you how many times he told me about stuff he saw first hand that had me shaking my head in despair. It was just sad.
    Vancouver's largest operational problem was the Stern handpicked GM Stu Jackson who wasted his high draft picks at about the most critical opening years of a franchise. He then gets the "policeman" job at the NBA suite in NY soon after. He must have photos of Stern.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Vancouver's largest operational problem was the Stern handpicked GM Stu Jackson who wasted his high draft picks at about the most critical opening years of a franchise. He then gets the "policeman" job at the NBA suite in NY soon after. He must have photos of Stern.
    Originally, yes, Jackson was a colossal mistake that killed the growth of the franchise immediately, but after he left, things actually got worse.

    I actually thought Jackson was a decent coach. I thought he did a good job in New York and Wisconsin, but didn't seem to know what to do running the organization. The one thing that pretty much sums up Jackson, was that he coached Michael Finley at Wisconsin, so knew him first hand, but failed to draft him. Exactly how poor a judge of talent are you if you coach a guy for several years, but don't realize he's someone you should have gone after in the draft? FInley was probably the second best player from that draft behind Garnett.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I saw the article on the front page, but when I clicked through to it, I saw it was a slideshow, which I hate, so I didn't read it. Besides, it's the Bleacher Report, so I find it surprising to hear that it was well thought out. What I don't understand is why Montreal would be ahead of Vancouver to get an NBA team. The only sports team Montreal seems to have been able to sustain is the Canadiens. Didn't they lose their CFL team?

    Vancouver HAD an NBA team that was unjustly taken away. I think they (we) deserve another one.
    Hell ya!

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    You'll see a team in Vegas, Seattle or Kansas City before Vancouver.
    I agree with this, with the exception of Seattle, based on everything I've read over the past two-three years, its bang on. I think Vegas would make the most sense IF they could overcome the gambling issues.

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    Not that I'm pushing the point of Montreal getting a team, because I don't believe it is realistic; however it should be noted that the ENTIRE state of Kansas only has roughly 2.5M people ... The metrolpolitan area surrounding Montreal is 3.6M people ...

    The Bell Center is already proven to be one of the best Arenas in Pro sports, and with a capacity of 22,114 for Basketball Games, would actually the HIGHEST capacity of ANY ARENA IN THE LEAGUE.
    The Kansas Sprint Center would only hold roughly 18,000. That's ALOT of revenues to miss out on.

    I can't see Kansas getting a team any time soon (or ever really. The NBA mentions them because they built the Sprint Center almost exclusively to lure an NBA team. But it just doesn't make Dollars or Sense.)
    Especially with Seattle now talking about building a new Arena.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Not that I'm pushing the point of Montreal getting a team, because I don't believe it is realistic; however it should be noted that the ENTIRE state of Kansas only has roughly 2.5M people ... The metrolpolitan area surrounding Montreal is 3.6M people ...

    The Bell Center is already proven to be one of the best Arenas in Pro sports, and with a capacity of 22,114 for Basketball Games, would actually the HIGHEST capacity of ANY ARENA IN THE LEAGUE.
    The Kansas Sprint Center would only hold roughly 18,000. That's ALOT of revenues to miss out on.

    I can't see Kansas getting a team any time soon (or ever really. The NBA mentions them because they built the Sprint Center almost exclusively to lure an NBA team. But it just doesn't make Dollars or Sense.)
    Especially with Seattle now talking about building a new Arena.
    Kansas City is in Missouri.. population of KC alone is like 4 million, i think

    edit: i take that back.... a quick googling indicates there are TWO Kansas Cities... on either side of the river.

    that shows me for not googling before thinking.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    Kansas City is in Missouri.. population of KC alone is like 4 million, i think

    edit: i take that back.... a quick googling indicates there are TWO Kansas Cities... on either side of the river.

    that shows me for not googling before thinking.
    No you are absolutely correct. That was my mistake. It is that Kansas City which the team would be moved too. The Sprint Center is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

    However a quick look shows the Metropolitan Area of KC, Missouri is still only 2.1M people. Still a significant drop from the 3.6M people in Metropolitan Montreal. Though Missouri does offer more opportunitys than Kansas State would, I imagine. But still. Kansas?! All I ever think about is the KC Royals, and how they will NEVER be a good baseball team because no one actually remembers they exist come Season time.

    Good find Heinz.

    ADD And further more, who the hell do they think they are, putting a city named KANSAS not in KANSAS. That's like putting a city named Washington, NOT in Washington State ... OH.. right ...
    Last edited by Joey; Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 03:18 PM.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I agree with this, with the exception of Seattle, based on everything I've read over the past two-three years, its bang on. I think Vegas would make the most sense IF they could overcome the gambling issues.
    Seattle won't get a new team until they build a new arena, and who knows when that will be. The idea of moving a team to Vegas seems to be dead, now. If the Maloofs have decided on Anaheim instead of Vegas, you know it's a no-go.

    As for Kansas City, it's a possibility, but the way the economy is going, I would think moving a team to Vancouver would make much more economic sense.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    As for Kansas City, it's a possibility, but the way the economy is going, I would think moving a team to Vancouver would make much more economic sense.
    Good point. totally forgot about the USD going to crap. Good old Canadian monopoly money is worth more than ever these days.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Seattle won't get a new team until they build a new arena, and who knows when that will be. The idea of moving a team to Vegas seems to be dead, now. If the Maloofs have decided on Anaheim instead of Vegas, you know it's a no-go.

    As for Kansas City, it's a possibility, but the way the economy is going, I would think moving a team to Vancouver would make much more economic sense.
    I would argue that Missouri is one of the stronger states in American under the current depression and looming dollar meltdown. Missouri makes real things. Their farming industry is huge. They manufacture industrial products. They mine raw materials. They refine raw materials. If I were to play the stock market now I'd throw my money into commodities because that's where you're going to see huge price hikes as the dollar continues to lose its purchasing power. Missouri is pretty self sustainable it would seem.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    Good point. totally forgot about the USD going to crap. Good old Canadian monopoly money is worth more than ever these days.
    The irony of that statement is overwhelming. Plus, Michael Heisley can kiss my ass!
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    I troll ESPN message boards reminding people that Vancouver is the best location for relocation. They have the market(fan-base)$$, they have an owner they guy who owns the 'nucks is trying to get an NBA team and most importantly Stern has said that a team leaving Vancouver was his biggest mistake as commissioner and unprompted mentioned that Vancouver is one of the cities looking for a franchise.

    After Anaheim Vancouver is the best location.
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    Kansas City doesn't have an owner and the market is too small and saturated to hold an NBA team.
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    i keep imagining an NBA expansion meeting about Montreal, and Stern saying "so wait... wait... let me get this straight... you can touch them ANYWHERE... but you're not allowed to kiss them!?"

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    I would love to see an NBA team in Montreal - one of my favorite cities. But I think the article does a poor job of making the argument. Here are the problems:
    1. Population - honestly sheer number of residents is probably the best argument for putting a team in Montreal. It is a large market. However, right now the NBA is, to a large extent, a media-driven league, where viewer eyeballs are more important than ticket sales (I think this is overall an awful long-term strategy, but that's the choice they've made). So the problem is that for most of the NBA's sponsors, Montreal, at a population of 3 million plus (many of whom are francophone and all of whom live outside the US), is going to be less appealing than New Orleans at 1.2 million. This is why the NHL is doing everything they can to stay in Phoenix despite the obvious problems with that market: the idea of relocating franchises out of the US is very unappealing to networks and advertisers.
    2. Support of the fans - Montreal is a great 'event' city. They support the Formula 1, Tennis, Boxing, MMA, etc. Selling Montrealers on going to a one-off basketball game isn't too difficult, because it fits with the sports culture of the city. Selling Montrealers on buying seasons tickets to a sport that's going head-to-head with the Canadiens is far more difficult. You can't look at one exhibition game as a forecaster for ongoing season ticket sales.
    3. Before you say anything about the Expos - well I wasn't going to say anything about them, but since you bring it up the issue of other sports teams... Part of Montreal's sports identity is a love of atmosphere. The atmosphere of Canadiens games is unmatched. Even when the team is losing, they pack the arena to boo. The Alouettes are a success in part because they are successful on the field, but also because they have a very low seating capacity, so demand stays high, the facility is always packed, and the atmosphere is intense. If the Montreal franchise isn't able to consistently sell-out, things could start to spiral downward in a hurry.
    4. Globalization: Personally, I believe that globalization is a red-herring by the league in order to drive up international interest in the game. But even if that isn't the case... Vancouver and Toronto too are listed as some of the most liveable cities in the world, and that isn't enough to convince some NBA players to live there. The problem with NBA players is that livability and culture isn't a huge issue, because the best-paid players can live well regardless of what city it's in. Proximity to family and friends and climate are the two strongest (non team related) factors when choosing a city to live in. If the NBA were to expand to Europe, it would not be with a single team... it would be, at minimum, an entire additional division. So it's not really fair to say that Montreal makes more sense than Europe, because they are two completely different exercises.
    5. We invented the game - meh, irrelevant. This is a business, not a history society.

    I really believe that the biggest thing it would take make basketball viable in Montreal is a second french sports network. The NBA team will not get the coverage that they need on RDS, and without a French television outlet, they would be hooped. But imagine a hypothetical scenario where Rogers wanted to launch a French-language Sportsnet Quebec, and purchased an NBA franchise to be the network's flagship content (as well as being cheap content for their national network). This would enable RSN to get a foothold in Quebec, where they could then begin to chip away at the monopoly that RDS has on that market.

    But really it is not about Montreal being a viable market. It's about Montreal being a better market for the league than any of the other contenders. Seattle doesn't have the facility right now, but long-term, it's a market that the NBA needs to be in, and they know this. And Kansas represents a better short-term opportunity than almost any other city out there. Wouldn't shock me to see the NBA move a team into Kansas, milk that city until it starts to sour, and by that time Seattle will probably have their arena up to snuff again.

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    Quote JYFelony wrote: View Post
    The Montreal CFL team (Alouettes) just won their second consecutive championship.
    ya, plus they just expanded their seating in the stadium because they were selling out every game.

    hahahah, ya that was a stupid comment there tim.

    Since 1999, the Alouettes have sold out every game at the stadium located on the campus of McGill University.At the time of the Alouettes' return to Molson, the stadium's capacity was 20,202; an expansion completed prior to the 2010 season brought the current capacity to 25,012.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Alouettes
    Last edited by LBF; Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 05:01 PM.
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    The U.S. has more debt than the World's GDP. There's no way for them to pay it off and so some suggest it's a matter of when the dollar crashes, not if. It's not something we should he rooting for to say the least... Unfortunately, a U.S. dollar collapse would hammer Canada very hard in certain regions. Particularly Ontario. I think the fact that Corporate America is moving to China will be very decremental to Ontario. Think about all the lost revenue opportunity from exports.

    I think Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland will be the provinces who get rocked the least because they produce oil and other natural resources in high quantity. When you see the U.S. dollar crash the price of oil will go through the roof... Not to mention gold, silver and other precious metals... And food.

    Obama is trying to shift the blame to Bush, citing that he came into a tough situation but with all due respect, you don't dig your way out of a hole by digging downward twice as far... You also don't surround yourself with all Wall Street heavy hitters when those are the same kind of people who got you into the mess to begin with.

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    ya, plus they just expanded their seating in the stadium because they were selling out every game.

    hahahah, ya that was a stupid comment there tim.

    Since 1999, the Alouettes have sold out every game at the stadium located on the campus of McGill University.At the time of the Alouettes' return to Molson, the stadium's capacity was 20,202; an expansion completed prior to the 2010 season brought the current capacity to 25,012.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Alouettes
    I wouldn't say stupid. Ill informed, but not completely wrong since they DID lose the team for about a decade, apparently. Again, I know absolutely nothing about the CFL (or NHL, for that matter).
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    I would love to see an NBA team in Montreal - one of my favorite cities. But I think the article does a poor job of making the argument. Here are the problems:
    1. Population - honestly sheer number of residents is probably the best argument for putting a team in Montreal. It is a large market. However, right now the NBA is, to a large extent, a media-driven league, where viewer eyeballs are more important than ticket sales (I think this is overall an awful long-term strategy, but that's the choice they've made). So the problem is that for most of the NBA's sponsors, Montreal, at a population of 3 million plus (many of whom are francophone and all of whom live outside the US), is going to be less appealing than New Orleans at 1.2 million. This is why the NHL is doing everything they can to stay in Phoenix despite the obvious problems with that market: the idea of relocating franchises out of the US is very unappealing to networks and advertisers.
    2. Support of the fans - Montreal is a great 'event' city. They support the Formula 1, Tennis, Boxing, MMA, etc. Selling Montrealers on going to a one-off basketball game isn't too difficult, because it fits with the sports culture of the city. Selling Montrealers on buying seasons tickets to a sport that's going head-to-head with the Canadiens is far more difficult. You can't look at one exhibition game as a forecaster for ongoing season ticket sales.
    3. Before you say anything about the Expos - well I wasn't going to say anything about them, but since you bring it up the issue of other sports teams... Part of Montreal's sports identity is a love of atmosphere. The atmosphere of Canadiens games is unmatched. Even when the team is losing, they pack the arena to boo. The Alouettes are a success in part because they are successful on the field, but also because they have a very low seating capacity, so demand stays high, the facility is always packed, and the atmosphere is intense. If the Montreal franchise isn't able to consistently sell-out, things could start to spiral downward in a hurry.
    4. Globalization: Personally, I believe that globalization is a red-herring by the league in order to drive up international interest in the game. But even if that isn't the case... Vancouver and Toronto too are listed as some of the most liveable cities in the world, and that isn't enough to convince some NBA players to live there. The problem with NBA players is that livability and culture isn't a huge issue, because the best-paid players can live well regardless of what city it's in. Proximity to family and friends and climate are the two strongest (non team related) factors when choosing a city to live in. If the NBA were to expand to Europe, it would not be with a single team... it would be, at minimum, an entire additional division. So it's not really fair to say that Montreal makes more sense than Europe, because they are two completely different exercises.
    5. We invented the game - meh, irrelevant. This is a business, not a history society.

    I really believe that the biggest thing it would take make basketball viable in Montreal is a second french sports network. The NBA team will not get the coverage that they need on RDS, and without a French television outlet, they would be hooped. But imagine a hypothetical scenario where Rogers wanted to launch a French-language Sportsnet Quebec, and purchased an NBA franchise to be the network's flagship content (as well as being cheap content for their national network). This would enable RSN to get a foothold in Quebec, where they could then begin to chip away at the monopoly that RDS has on that market.

    But really it is not about Montreal being a viable market. It's about Montreal being a better market for the league than any of the other contenders. Seattle doesn't have the facility right now, but long-term, it's a market that the NBA needs to be in, and they know this. And Kansas represents a better short-term opportunity than almost any other city out there. Wouldn't shock me to see the NBA move a team into Kansas, milk that city until it starts to sour, and by that time Seattle will probably have their arena up to snuff again.
    too cold, nba players would hate to live there. Vancouver should definitly get one tho.

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