Is this summer time to move Kleiza and Amir Johnson ?

[Apollo]

Magic Johnson was horrible his whole career from downtown. So was Penny Hardaway.

Assistant head coach Alex English is one of the most prolific scorers the league has ever seen and he shot a career 21% from downtown.

Dominique Wilkins was horrible from long range as well.

As Tim mentioned, Michael Jordan was like a 15% shooter from downtown during his first four or five seasons.

Dwayne Wade is horrible from long range.

To DeMar's credit, he doesn't take many attempts. Like one every two games. He doesn't need it right now.

[JoePanini]

I think Calderon is better than Mo Williams and have been saying that for a couple of years. Barbosa is better than any guard they have coming off the bench, right now. I agree that Gordon is much better than DeRozan right now, but he's also been in the league one more year. Compare their 2nd seasons and they're pretty similar.

As for the front line, I think it's probably fairly even. Right now, I think Johnson is better than Animu, but who knows down the line. I wasn't a big fan of Aminu to begin with. The Raptors have a much deeper front line than the Clippers, though. Obviously Griffin is far better than any Raptor, and a healthy Kaman is, as well, but I'd take Reggie and Davis over any of their big men off the bench. Jordan has potential, but he's still pretty raw, and I like Davis better.

Even with Kaman missing more than half the season, they still have 7 more wins than the Raptors, and that's in the West and with Baron Davis mailing it in for a couple of months.

I know Calderon is better than Williams, I just meant that the Clips had 2 decent PGs, whilst we have one good PG and a pretty poor PG. And I feel Gordon will be a better player than DeRozan for his entire career, but I could definitely be wrong. But I don't think DeRozan will have anywhere near all-star numbers Gordon had this year before his injury.

Johnson was never 'that' good, he is a defensive specialist who does nearly everything fairly efficiently, but Aminu is still the guy who averaged a double-double in college last year. Although he doesn't have an actual position in the NBA, he is still 6'9, long, freakishly athletic, can rebound and can hit an open shot from anywhere on the court... But yeah, in the NBA both have proven very little. And I think that our PF combo of Johnson and Davis will be far more successful than a combo with Griffin and Smith(?)

But they did win a bunch of games on what I consider a 'fluke' run. Yes they played well, but you could tell it was just a tiny phase (kind of like the Raptor phases when they play D and all) and you could tell they wouldn't have kept it on all year, so pretty much they just worsened their chances with them ping pong balls. Which is good for us.

[JoePanini]

Magic Johnson was horrible his whole career from downtown. So was Penny Hardaway.

Assistant head coach Alex English is one of the most prolific scorers the league has ever seen and he shot a career 21% from downtown.

Dominique Wilkins was horrible from long range as well.

As Tim mentioned, Michael Jordan was like a 15% shooter from downtown during his first four or five seasons.

Dwayne Wade is horrible from long range.

To DeMar's credit, he doesn't take many attempts. Like one every two games. He doesn't need it right now.

I don't remember if I mentioned this already, but many 3 point shooters abuse their shot and launch way to many than they should. Now a days you see guys taking 10 threes in a game, I find that crazy. I rather DeMar attack the basket, cause foul trouble, take high percentage shots, than stick at the three point line (it's easy to say a player who can hit the three won't stick out there, but many tend to sit around there). If he can get 20 points without a three, and taking maybe 8 free throws a game, it would be better than him scoring 20 whilst shooting a lower percentage and getting to the line less.

[Apollo]

I agree 100%. If I have to choose between a guy who's playing the odds, getting inside and initiating contact, I'll take that 10 out of 10 times over a guy who shoots threes and occasionally goes inside when his coach gets on his case. If DeRozan keeps developing inside his offensive efficiency will stay high, he will make scoring easier for his teammates because he'll keep the D on their heels and finally while he's getting all those free baskets at the charity stripe he'll be systematically damaging the opposing team's interior defense by getting them into trouble and causing them to play more conservatively... Which further makes it easier for him to operate inside and give his teammates more space as well.

Wilkens, Jordan and Wade would be average players on offense if they played the game the way a lot of people around here think guards should play. I understand why they think that way, it's because we've been subjected to it for most of the Raptors' existence. It doesn't make it right. There was a time when you'd get burned at the stake for suggesting the world was round too...

[Tim W.]

I know Calderon is better than Williams, I just meant that the Clips had 2 decent PGs, whilst we have one good PG and a pretty poor PG. And I feel Gordon will be a better player than DeRozan for his entire career, but I could definitely be wrong. But I don't think DeRozan will have anywhere near all-star numbers Gordon had this year before his injury.

Johnson was never 'that' good, he is a defensive specialist who does nearly everything fairly efficiently, but Aminu is still the guy who averaged a double-double in college last year. Although he doesn't have an actual position in the NBA, he is still 6'9, long, freakishly athletic, can rebound and can hit an open shot from anywhere on the court... But yeah, in the NBA both have proven very little. And I think that our PF combo of Johnson and Davis will be far more successful than a combo with Griffin and Smith(?)

But they did win a bunch of games on what I consider a 'fluke' run. Yes they played well, but you could tell it was just a tiny phase (kind of like the Raptor phases when they play D and all) and you could tell they wouldn't have kept it on all year, so pretty much they just worsened their chances with them ping pong balls. Which is good for us.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing here. Is it me or are we pretty much agreeing on this?

[JoePanini]

I'm not even sure what we're arguing here. Is it me or are we pretty much agreeing on this?

I'm not sure, sometimes I get confused??