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Thread: Is this summer time to move Kleiza and Amir Johnson ?

  1. #61
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    I know it's year 2 but he shouldn't be playing SG. Shooting isn't his strength and it most likely never will be. He should gain some mass and play SF.
    your the biggest moron on here. Why don't u get it? Its his 2nd year for god sake, he's not MJ. I strongly disagree with him playing SF. Have you seen his mid range shot? it keeps getting better and better, i think you need to get yours eyes and brain checked. You don't have to be a great shooter to play SG, look at players like Andre Iguodala.

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    SG are suppose to be able to drill open 3s (especially with our starting 5), that'll never be his strength. He might become good but never great at it. He's just not that type of player. He can drill mid range shots all he wants from SF position.

  3. #63
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    SG are suppose to be able to drill open 3s (especially with our starting 5), that'll never be his strength. He might become good but never great at it. He's just not that type of player. He can drill mid range shots all he wants from SF position.
    Or we can get a SF who can drill open 3s and let Demar defend, post up and ferociously attack the opposing SG. That's probably where his biggest matchup advantage lies.

    Either way, Demar is already nailing long 2s at a decent enough clip now, so it shouldn't be too much for him in a year or so to take a step or two back.

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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    SG are suppose to be able to drill open 3s
    Since when? Loads of SGs have not been great 3 point shooters (Michael Jordan was horrible his first 4 years in the league). What's the difference if your SG is a good 3 point shooter or your SF? It makes absolutely no difference. I agree that ONE of them should probably be a good 3 point shooter, but that has to do with spacing, not what position they play.

    I've never cared when Bargnani has scored from because I think, in today's NBA, it's irrelevant. You could have your center take threes, your SG be in the post and your PF be great from mid-range. As long as the spacing is good and your offense is efficient.
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    I agree with timbo, calling someone a 2 or a 3, (or 1,4,5) for that matter is irrelevent. They are used because people generally matchup against the player on the opposite team who is roughly their height. You do however see teams play "big" or play "small" If demar and weems are on at the same time it doesn't matter who you call the 2 or the 3, futhermore attaching at "2" to demar and a "3" to weems doesn't mean that they have to guard their counterpart on opposite teams (although that is how it usually) works. Demar could guard the other team's 2 one game and the next team's 3, it all depends on the match ups. I would love to see play "bigger" with bargs at the 3 in certain scenarios. Not sure he can defend all opposing 3s but i definitely think getting him out there could be very effective for a few possessions a game. I could see Amir, Evans, and Bargs being an effective defensive and rebounding frontcourt. It would also pose some problems for the oppositions defense and we could also potentially get quite a lot of offensive rebounds.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    That's like saying a great looking girl with an awful personality and a ugly looking girl with a great personality balance each other out. They don't. They just make an odd pair of girls that no one wants to be with.
    Analogy of the year.

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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    your the biggest moron on here. Why don't u get it? Its his 2nd year for god sake, he's not MJ. I strongly disagree with him playing SF. Have you seen his mid range shot? it keeps getting better and better, i think you need to get yours eyes and brain checked. You don't have to be a great shooter to play SG, look at players like Andre Iguodala.
    Calling someone a moron doesn't strengthen your reputation on this site

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    Another Great Night for Evans

    Do we really need to keep Amir and let Evans just walk away ?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    After Derozan's work on his jump shot, Amir has been the guy that has impressed me the MOST this season. Davis has developed nicely and hopefully will continue to develop, but Amir is playing very solid and on a VERY reasonable contract. Just because Davis has the POTENTIAL to be better than Amir is not good enough reason to trade him. Amir still has a lot of potential as well, and a lot of room for his stock to rise. Small forward is our problem but we don't need to trade amir to address that. I also think that Davis WILL NOT be ready to start next year (at least not to the very end of the season) and I have yet to hear a compelling argument AGAINST keeping both, since we DO have the money. From a contracts perspective Jose's contract is way more of a liability than Amir's (and i still say keep calderon too, but that's another argument).
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    After Derozan's work on his jump shot, Amir has been the guy that has impressed me the MOST this season. Davis has developed nicely and hopefully will continue to develop, but Amir is playing very solid and on a VERY reasonable contract. Just because Davis has the POTENTIAL to be better than Amir is not good enough reason to trade him. Amir still has a lot of potential as well, and a lot of room for his stock to rise. Small forward is our problem but we don't need to trade amir to address that. I also think that Davis WILL NOT be ready to start next year (at least not to the very end of the season) and I have yet to hear a compelling argument AGAINST keeping both, since we DO have the money. From a contracts perspective Jose's contract is way more of a liability than Amir's (and i still say keep calderon too, but that's another argument).
    Really good post.

    I don't see the need to trade Amir. Injuries/bad games/match ups/rest require more than two bigs. As you said, Amir's contract is very reasonable and Ed is still on his rookie deal for 3 more seasons. To me keeping both is a no brainer.

  11. #71
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    We have a real nice bigman rotation with Bargnani, Davis and Amir.

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    Quote Multipaul wrote: View Post
    Calling someone a moron doesn't strengthen your reputation on this site
    Who said anything about strengthening my reputation? i could care less what people think of me on here

  13. #73
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    We have a real nice bigman rotation with Bargnani, Davis and Amir.
    Then why have the Raptors only won 19 games? I think Davis will be an excellent starter, and Amir will make a great bench guy, but there's obviously something wrong or the team would have won more games. Especially since Calderon and DeRozan aren't exactly scrubs. They're not great, by any means, but they're certainly half decent.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Then why have the Raptors only won 19 games? I think Davis will be an excellent starter, and Amir will make a great bench guy, but there's obviously something wrong or the team would have won more games. Especially since Calderon and DeRozan aren't exactly scrubs. They're not great, by any means, but they're certainly half decent.
    Well the Clippers have a far better team yet they are also struggling. And they have two star players in Gordon and Griffin. For now we have no star players, just many decent players and Davis and DeRozan who are players with loads of potential. Honestly, I think we are only missing a few pieces. Imagine if we added a guy like Gerald Wallace to our starting line-up. I think we would be a 40 win team at least. And the problem is, that we don't have any great player. All the teams with winning records have a great player, having many decent players is nearly never successful unless you also have a star player in the mix.
    Anyways, the Raptors are still rebuilding, and I think that it will take at least 2 years until we actually become competitive...

  15. #75
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Well the Clippers have a far better team yet they are also struggling. And they have two star players in Gordon and Griffin. For now we have no star players, just many decent players and Davis and DeRozan who are players with loads of potential. Honestly, I think we are only missing a few pieces. Imagine if we added a guy like Gerald Wallace to our starting line-up. I think we would be a 40 win team at least. And the problem is, that we don't have any great player. All the teams with winning records have a great player, having many decent players is nearly never successful unless you also have a star player in the mix.
    Anyways, the Raptors are still rebuilding, and I think that it will take at least 2 years until we actually become competitive...
    The Clippers have three good players (Griffin, Gordon and Kaman), but Kaman has struggled due to injuries, which has taken a hit in the win column. He's been playing much better recently, which is one reason they've been winning more.

    What the CLippers have a lot of his POTENTIAL talent, in Jordan, Bledsoe and Aminu, but I have no idea whether they will turn out to be decent players or not.

    Why the CLippers are in a better position than the Raptors is because they have two All-Stars on the roster and a legit starting center. Unfortunately the rest of the team is simply not that good.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The Clippers have three good players (Griffin, Gordon and Kaman), but Kaman has struggled due to injuries, which has taken a hit in the win column. He's been playing much better recently, which is one reason they've been winning more.

    What the CLippers have a lot of his POTENTIAL talent, in Jordan, Bledsoe and Aminu, but I have no idea whether they will turn out to be decent players or not.

    Why the CLippers are in a better position than the Raptors is because they have two All-Stars on the roster and a legit starting center. Unfortunately the rest of the team is simply not that good.
    Well who do the Raptors have better? Calderon is better than Bledsoe, for now. But the Clippers also have Mo Williams. So they have 2 decent PGs. DeRozan is nowhere near as good as Gordon. Both teams are pretty bad at SF but I'd give the edge to the Clippers because if James Johnson can start then a guy like Aminu would definitely start. And the Clippers win the rest of the matchup of the starting lineup. Then is our bench really that strong? That leaves Weems, Bayless, Wright, Johnson, Ed Davis, Dorsey etc... The only decent players are Johnson and Davis....

  17. #77
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    Quote JoePanini wrote: View Post
    Well who do the Raptors have better? Calderon is better than Bledsoe, for now. But the Clippers also have Mo Williams. So they have 2 decent PGs. DeRozan is nowhere near as good as Gordon. Both teams are pretty bad at SF but I'd give the edge to the Clippers because if James Johnson can start then a guy like Aminu would definitely start. And the Clippers win the rest of the matchup of the starting lineup. Then is our bench really that strong? That leaves Weems, Bayless, Wright, Johnson, Ed Davis, Dorsey etc... The only decent players are Johnson and Davis....
    I think Calderon is better than Mo Williams and have been saying that for a couple of years. Barbosa is better than any guard they have coming off the bench, right now. I agree that Gordon is much better than DeRozan right now, but he's also been in the league one more year. Compare their 2nd seasons and they're pretty similar.

    As for the front line, I think it's probably fairly even. Right now, I think Johnson is better than Animu, but who knows down the line. I wasn't a big fan of Aminu to begin with. The Raptors have a much deeper front line than the Clippers, though. Obviously Griffin is far better than any Raptor, and a healthy Kaman is, as well, but I'd take Reggie and Davis over any of their big men off the bench. Jordan has potential, but he's still pretty raw, and I like Davis better.

    Even with Kaman missing more than half the season, they still have 7 more wins than the Raptors, and that's in the West and with Baron Davis mailing it in for a couple of months.
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    1) SF and PG ... These two positions or at least one needs to be addressed this summer for us to make a next logical step in our rebuilding process.

    2) A Real Start, Franchise Player. AB is and is getting paid like a great offensive 2nd or 3rd option in a good team. Lets keep it that way and use him that way.

    3) Redundancy : Amir and Ed both player the same style Basketball, rebound and defend. Neither can really play the Center due to their size and physics.

    4) Evans factor: With new CBA , we can have him for 4-5 million a year. He is the definition of hustle and energizes the team.

    5) Trading chips: Aside from Johnson , Ed and our draft pick, our hands are quite tight.

    Considering all that above, the only logical step is to move either Amir or Ed.

  19. #79
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Since when? Loads of SGs have not been great 3 point shooters (Michael Jordan was horrible his first 4 years in the league). What's the difference if your SG is a good 3 point shooter or your SF? It makes absolutely no difference. I agree that ONE of them should probably be a good 3 point shooter, but that has to do with spacing, not what position they play.

    I've never cared when Bargnani has scored from because I think, in today's NBA, it's irrelevant. You could have your center take threes, your SG be in the post and your PF be great from mid-range. As long as the spacing is good and your offense is efficient.
    I dear you to name 1 SG that can't hit 3s at all (demar = 8% last I checked could of gone down).

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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    I dear you to name 1 SG that can't hit 3s at all (demar = 8% last I checked could of gone down).
    Michael Jordan couldn't hit a three for the first four years of his career to save his life (around 12%). And he did pretty well.

    And the fact that DeRozan is scoring what he is shows he's not suffering too much from his lack of 3 point shooting. DeRozan doesn't take many threes, so it's not as if his low percentage hurts him.

    Besides, DeRozan has a very good mid-range shot, so he's obviously got good shooting mechanics. He just needs to move his range out, which is relatively easy when you have the mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him get above 30% next season.
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