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Thread: Colangelo's extension being blocked, referred to as a "product of nepotism"

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    What mess? The young group that wants to improve? The players who actually like the city? The players who play with heart? You must be watching something else. Sure the win loss is bad right now but we all saw it coming. BC did absolutely everything he could to try to get Bosh to stay around and lucked out (offer to overpay Trevor ariza that summer, remember that?). Not his fault. Got turkuglu who we loved until he forgot how to play ball. BCs fault? No. He did what made sense and it didn't work out. How about this season? He wasn't setting us up to tank by trying to acquire Chandler, Diaw and Matt Barnes. He anted to be competitive. Things didn't work out and when he saw a team headed towards 25-30 wins he sent off JJ and started the youth movement. It's not a mess. He has actually done a good job when you consider everything that has fallen through. To call it a mess is absurd. The goal now is to win long term and not just next year.
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  2. #22
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    How can it be said that Silvestri is talking as an accountant simply because he is one? He could be a fan as well and disagrees with moves or philosophy. A lot of opinions here (including my own).

  3. #23
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    If he makes a bad pick as a resentment of not being re-upped, BC spoils his reputation as a class act to prospective employers if he is fired. Imo, BC should make the right pick and be a class act like Kevin Pritchard (notice teams are still interested in Kevin. Why? It is because he left as a class act even after being fired on draft day by making the right pick in the draft).
    Guys it doesn't mean he picks a nobody but say doesn't pick Barnes or something and instead picks Josh Selby or even Terrence Jones (who I previously wanted but character and basketball IQ is below that of Barnes) or say Donatas for a Bargs 2.0. There are a handful of lottery picks who would not be a fit for this team but could arguably be a pick made.

  4. #24
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    Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?

  5. #25
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    Quote jd4 wrote: View Post
    Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?
    Except the site is split in wanting Colangelo gone or renewed.

    ADD: and MLSE won't care what the fans want, just what they will pay for.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Except the site is split in wanting Colangelo gone or renewed.

    ADD: and MLSE won't care what the fans want, just what they will pay for.
    Split? I think those who want him gone out number those who want him to stay - lol.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    "I’m not saying owner Herb Simon won’t try to re-enlist Bird, though that’s a distinct possibility. Should an offer be extended, however, it definitely won’t be remotely near the $5 million he will have banked for eight straight seasons — more like $1 million, tops, per year for three or four"
    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...o6cGcoKHA2dzLO

    For all the crap BC gets for his salary/contract and results, imagine paying Bird $5M per season for the last 8 years.

  8. #28
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    What I'm wondering, is how many people just Googled what Nepotism is?

    Let BC finish this. I think he's on to something.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    How can it be said that Silvestri is talking as an accountant simply because he is one? He could be a fan as well and disagrees with moves or philosophy. A lot of opinions here (including my own).
    Either way (accountant or fan) he has no background with which to make a sports management decision. It's not his area of expertise. It's like someone who's never held a hammer telling a carpenter, "sh*t, man, your handiwork sucks. I can tell this house is going to fall down just by looking at it."

    I sure as hell don't want a "fan" making any important decisions about the Toronto Raptors.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  10. #30
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    Yes, no professional who wants to work in the league again would purposely draft some nobody just to spite the team.



    Class act like Kevin Pritchard? Seriously? You say he made "the right pick the draft." Says who? You? How are you so certain he made the same pick he would have had he received an extension? Nothing but speculation, and it's funny you're so quick to use the words "class act" after what happened in Portland. Was he a class act when he undermined the Trailblazer's position during Roy's contract talks? Was he a class act when he whined to everyone who would listen about how he should be paid more than Nate McMillan? You suggest, "notice teams are still interested in Kevin [...]", when one could just as easily infer the opposite. Notice how despite his excellent track record as a GM, teams are only "interested" and haven't offered him a job? Lord knows there's a lot of teams that could use a GM of his caliber right now.
    Imo, he made the right draft pick in the draft at that number outside the lottery - Luke Babbitt is as tough as nails and has an headstart advantage over other NBA players because of that. All Babbitt needs to do is put the tools together, get in the gym, shoot some midrange shots consistently and learn to rebound with the added weight. Yeah, he is a third string SF on a team built for the playoffs (but who would not be with freakish long arms Nicolas Batum starting and uber-athletic and another tough as nails player in Gerald Wallace) but he will also have another advantage rookies except superstar rookies don't get - play in the playoffs. I think Luke Babbitt, Larry Sanders, Ed Davis and Paul George will be special players out of the last draft as long as they have a desire to improve their game. "Nuff said.

  11. #31
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    You forget one thing. He's an ACCOUNTANT, not a basketball executive. His expertise is in looking at the dollars and cents, and not in speculating on whether DeRozen, Davis, Johnson, etc. are sufficient as the core of a winning team one day down the road. The only reason why you think he's right is because you're viewing his analysis through your own biased view of the team's prospects, just the same as I think he's wrong in his analysis because I'm not as negative. It's no more ridiculous for him to hold up the decision based on his basketball prowess as it is for him to hold off on letting BC go (if the board was leaning the opposite way) for the same reason. It's no more ridiculous than for one of us, picked at random, to have our opinion be treated as gold. If the organization was run poorly from a financial standpoint, then sure, that's sufficient reason, but there's no evidence of this thus far.

    Moreover, you seem to suggest that Toronto fans would be sufficiently satisfied by a bottom-seeded playoff team. Yes, making one of the 5 remaining spots out of the 12 remaining teams isn't that hard -- heck, why don't we just say that 8/15 aren't exactly long odds. If Silvestri's stance mirrors yours, then even more reason not to respect his "evaluation".

    I'm not going to say the team is better off without Bosh. From a talent and resource standpoint, of course it isn't. Whenever you lose an all-star for essentially nothing, your team is going to take a hit. We certainly aren't even in the best position for a rebuild -- we don't have an obvious franchise player already in the fold -- but we are in a position for a rebuild. Considering how the team had already topped out in 2006-2007, we should welcome this and reject the notion we would rather have continued as a fringe playoff team. Is it hard to be one of the top 8 teams in the conference? No. Is it hard to be one of the top 4 teams in the conference? Yes, and that's where we want to be.
    Hey, baby steps bro , baby steps - all I'm saying is that the Top 3 spots in each conference are for contenders(yeah, it will be cool to get them but that is most likely after we have made the playoffs 2 straight years before we can think of that - stop putting the cart before the horse (see OKC at 8th spot last season and 4th spot this season for evidence)) but I am content with a playoff spot outside the Top 3 even if we go out in the first round again as long as it is in 6 games imo (and I believe other fans in Toronto that has not seen a playoff team in 3 years (but Maple Leafs is in a fight of their lives to bring the needed playoffs to sad Toronto fans) will be okay with making the big dance every year even if it is a relatively short one - just look at the Portland Trailblazers for evidence - never passed the first round but made the playoffs 3 years straight (going 4-5 years?) and they have the rabid and most loudest fans because of it. Nobody wants to support a loser (except only if you are an Arsenal fan , low blow right? just kidding ). My 2 cents.).
    Last edited by smushmush; Sun Mar 13th, 2011 at 12:30 PM.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    Hey, baby steps bro , baby steps - all I'm saying is that the Top 3 spots in each conference are for contenders(yeah, it will be cool to get them but that is most likely after we have made the playoffs 2 straight years before we can think of that - stop putting the cart before the horse (see OKC at 8th spot last season and 4th spot this season for evidence)) but I am content with a playoff spot outside the Top 3 even if we go out in the first round again as long as it is in 6 games imo (and I believe other fans in Toronto that has not seen a playoff team in 3 years (but Maple Leafs is in a fight of their lives to bring the needed playoffs to sad Toronto fans) will be okay with making the big dance every year even if it is a relatively short one - just look at the Portland Trailblazers for evidence - never passed the first round but made the playoffs 3 years straight (going 4-5 years?) and they have the rabid and most loudest fans because of it. Nobody wants to support a loser (except only if you are an Arsenal fan , low blow right? just kidding ). My 2 cents.).
    The POR example shows the clear lack of patience and hypocricy Raptors fans currently have. POR did go through a rebuild to get where they are now, they had a horrible team with a horrible reputation (Jail Blazers) before this, and did in fact lose the support of the community for a few seasons (rightfully so with all the on and off court disappointments).

    Here is POR's record over the last number of years:

    2009-10 Portland 50 32 .610 3rd Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2008-09 Portland 54 28 .659 2nd Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2007-08 Portland 41 41 .500 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2006-07 Portland 32 50 .390 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2005-06 Portland 21 61 .256 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2004-05 Portland 27 55 .329 4th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2003-04 Portland 41 41 .500 3rd Pacific Division - - - DNQ
    2002-03 Portland 50 32 .610 2nd Pacific Division 3 4 .429 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2001-02 Portland 49 33 .598 3rd Pacific Division 0 3 .000 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    Compare POR's recent history with TOR's:

    2009-10 Toronto 40 42 .488 2nd Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2008-09 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2007-08 Toronto 41 41 .500 2nd Atlantic Division 1 4 .200 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    2006-07 Toronto 47 35 .573 1st Atlantic Division 2 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    Using this as a template, TOR is in 2006. POR had 2 more lottery seasons before they qualified again in 2009.

    Since OKC and Presti is also another example frequently used, here is their recent history:

    2009-10 OK City 50 32 .610 4th Northwest Division 2 4 .333 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2008-09 OK City 23 59 .280 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2007-08 Seattle 20 62 .244 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2006-07 Seattle 31 51 .378 5th Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2005-06 Seattle 35 47 .427 3rd Northwest Division - - - DNQ
    2004-05 Seattle 52 30 .634 1st Northwest Division 6 5 .545 Lost West Conf Semis
    2003-04 Seattle 37 45 .451 4th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
    2002-03 Seattle 40 42 .488 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
    2001-02 Seattle 45 37 .549 4th Pacific Division 2 3 .400 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    2000-01 Seattle 44 38 .537 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
    1999-00 Seattle 45 37 .549 4th Pacific Division 2 3 .400 Lost West Conf 1st Rd
    1998-99 * Seattle 25 25 .500 5th Pacific Division - - - DNQ
    To build a competitive team properly, suffering is involved. Raptors fans want a winning franchise but they do not want to go through the steps necessary to get there. Even the most ideal situations that fans/posters claim to desire (OKC and POR) took years to build - expecially a team like OKC.

  13. #33
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

    Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Actually, futher to post #32 above, here is the Raptors longer history going back to Glenn Grunwald days.

    2009-10 Toronto 40 42 .488 2nd Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2008-09 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2007-08 Toronto 41 41 .500 2nd Atlantic Division 1 4 .200 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    2006-07 Toronto 47 35 .573 1st Atlantic Division 2 4 .333 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    2005-06 Toronto 27 55 .329 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2004-05 Toronto 33 49 .402 4th Atlantic Division - - - DNQ
    2003-04 Toronto 33 49 .402 6th Central Division - - - DNQ
    2002-03 Toronto 24 58 .293 7th Central Division - - - DNQ
    2001-02 Toronto 42 40 .512 3rd Central Division 2 3 .400 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
    Before BC showed up the Raps had suffered 24, 33, 33, and 27 wins seasons and had not made the playoffs in 4 years. Those four years yielded just one decent decent player: RuPaul. Araujo, Charlie V, and Joey Graham were the other stellar finds (Charlie was slotted in the teens and they already had Bosh).
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Mar 13th, 2011 at 02:03 PM.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie your mom's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'd agree. I would like a shorter deal with less money but, agree or not, many feel he is one of the better in the league.

    I think the swinging for the fences was a result of having a max player under contract and the pressure of having to win at all costs to keep said max player around.

    The rebuild takes away the sense of urgency in having moves/deals pay immediate dividends. Moves can be made looking 1-2 seasons down the road versus now.

    I really like the future of the team right now. Draft day may increase or decrease that optimism as much of it is hinging on that fateful night.
    MY thoughts exactly. BryCo needs a season or two to truly prove he can build a team completely on his own terms, not with gay ass bosh free agency in the back of his mind. My best prediction would be a 3yr deal somewhere in the 10mil range....Hopefully he gets this extension though again he's put the raptors in a good position.

  16. #36
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

    Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.
    Couldn't they possibly use Embry again for a stop-gap until they find smeone a long term solution?

  17. #37
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Are you kidding me? Blocked by an accountant? What the hell does this guy know about basketball? How could he think he's qualified to make such a call? What I think personally is that somebody leaked this out of frustration to make this guy look like an moron and put heat on him. Which, based on the facts presented, wasn't difficult to accomplish. This makes the organization look bad. I can't believe this crap...

    Bottom line, the time to axe Colangelo came and went. By the time they'd be ready to make a move now to finalize the hiring of a new GM we would be just weeks away from the draft. Last time that happened the team had just signed Babcock and the guy, not having sufficient time to prep for the draft, ended up taking Hoffa in the lotto and set the team back even further. Babcock takes a lot of heat for that pick and so he should but it was also a product of the board running the business in the same way this is being handled.
    I believe you have it right Apollo. This nepotism criticism is bushleague (if true). That is making a business/basketball decision a personal one. No room for that in my view.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    i kind of find it a bit humorous how so many on here are disgusted that an ACCOUNTANT is holding up a basketball-related decision. of course, no one who posts on here is involved in professional basketball in any capacity other than 'fan,' and yet no one here hesitates in the least in letting others know how they think basketball-related decisions should be made. why is it that we think that our own opinions as fans are more important than the opinion of someone who's responsible for managing billion$ in assets, one of which is a pro bball team? before we deride this person as a back-room peon, maybe try to find out the whole story...or wait for it to come out.

    the way i read it, it's not as though he's 'blocking' the decision to re-up BC, but rather, he's one of the few lap dogs who's not comfortable with falling in line with what the board says re. BC (essentially, that they're infatuated with him).

    appollo - what do YOU know about basketball? what is it about your personal involvement with the NBA that makes you some kind of authority on someone who - by your tone - you have no knowledge about whatsoever?
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    What mess? The young group that wants to improve? The players who actually like the city? The players who play with heart? You must be watching something else. Sure the win loss is bad right now but we all saw it coming. BC did absolutely everything he could to try to get Bosh to stay around and lucked out (offer to overpay Trevor ariza that summer, remember that?). Not his fault. Got turkuglu who we loved until he forgot how to play ball. BCs fault? No. He did what made sense and it didn't work out. How about this season? He wasn't setting us up to tank by trying to acquire Chandler, Diaw and Matt Barnes. He anted to be competitive. Things didn't work out and when he saw a team headed towards 25-30 wins he sent off JJ and started the youth movement. It's not a mess. He has actually done a good job when you consider everything that has fallen through. To call it a mess is absurd. The goal now is to win long term and not just next year.
    This..is common sense, right here. I co-sign.
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    Quote jd4 wrote: View Post
    Remember that old saying, "Money is the root of all evil." Well, you can see this statement come ture in the way things are run by OTPP. Why would you let a bean counter named Silvestri stand in the way of resigning BC? Yes, he's made errors. But you know what, when you look at all of the moves he has made, on paper they pretty much all made sense. Was it his fault that: Kapono was a bum, Jermaine O'Neal picked when he wanted to play, Turkoglu was a bum, and Bosh wasn't honest with him? That's the fault of the players more than the GM. Since Bosh left and BC has been building the team his way, we are slowly beginning to see the beginning of something good. This summer is so critical to the future of the Raptors. A top 5 pick, cap space, the Bosh trade exemption, and an upcoming hard cap has put this team in a real nice position, thanks to BC. Here's a suggestion. If the majority of people on the site want to see BC continue the rebuild of our beloved Raptors, what would you think of expressing our thoughts to MLSE and perhaps getting a petition going to get BC resigned? Any thoughts?
    Dude, just say the word!!!! [email protected]..Holla!!! Enough is enough. I'm sick of instability and people trying to talk all fancy with stats like you can measure love of the game with stats. FOH. JD4, jus' holla at me, bro and let's get shit poppin', real talk.
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