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Thread: Colangelo's extension being blocked, referred to as a "product of nepotism"

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter GameBreaker's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Either way (accountant or fan) he has no background with which to make a sports management decision. It's not his area of expertise. It's like someone who's never held a hammer telling a carpenter, "sh*t, man, your handiwork sucks. I can tell this house is going to fall down just by looking at it."

    I sure as hell don't want a "fan" making any important decisions about the Toronto Raptors.
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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    What I'm wondering, is how many people just Googled what Nepotism is?

    Let BC finish this. I think he's on to something.
    Really? Well in Arsenalist's thread on the front page it's 70% - 30% to keep him. With 75 votes in.
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

  3. #43
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
    Really? Well in Arsenalist's thread on the front page it's 70% - 30% to keep him. With 75 votes in.
    I think you meant to quote this...
    Quote Matt52 wrote:
    Split? I think those who want him gone out number those who want him to stay - lol.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I think you meant to quote this...
    No, I was surprised at your comment. Thought you were in the camp that he should not be rehired.
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Bc is doing the right things at the moment I am happy with him. I can understand questioning bc record as a gm but I don't think he is the problem ATM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    +1, i wouldnt mind colangelo getting another 2-3 year contract but thats it. give him 3 years to see this through and re evaluate. but if we get a new gm next year i wont be upset. although i like that colangelo is willing to go push for the team to be in lux. tax to be a competitor in the future. and current owners really back BC.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Couldn't they possibly use Embry again for a stop-gap until they find smeone a long term solution?
    I'm not sure but what I am sure about is that there is a lot more that goes into planning for a draft than stepping in to make an agreement on one trade with Isiah Thomas. Is Embry scouting?

    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I believe you have it right Apollo. This nepotism criticism is bushleague (if true). That is making a business/basketball decision a personal one. No room for that in my view.
    Things are typically desperate when media leaks happen in Raptorsland. I think throwing this guy under the bus like this anonymous person has done was well played to get the wheels in motion. How would this guy enjoy Sonny Weems auditing his books?

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Aw it's bullshit. The question is simple.

    If BC leaves it means:
    -His staff leaves
    -Triano leaves
    -AB leaves

    If we are good with this, then we should move on.
    I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, hes listed as Chu Chu. I think hes worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name. -Tim W.

  9. #49
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    It's not that simple. Is there a good replacement? How long will it take to find this replacement? Is this replacement prepared for the draft? The fact that there is only one guy, a person with no basketball experience, holding up the Colangelo extension to me says this wissue will be overcome and Colangelo will be extended.

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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i kind of find it a bit humorous how so many on here are disgusted that an ACCOUNTANT is holding up a basketball-related decision. of course, no one who posts on here is involved in professional basketball in any capacity other than 'fan,' and yet no one here hesitates in the least in letting others know how they think basketball-related decisions should be made. why is it that we think that our own opinions as fans are more important than the opinion of someone who's responsible for managing billion$ in assets, one of which is a pro bball team? before we deride this person as a back-room peon, maybe try to find out the whole story...or wait for it to come out.

    the way i read it, it's not as though he's 'blocking' the decision to re-up BC, but rather, he's one of the few lap dogs who's not comfortable with falling in line with what the board says re. BC (essentially, that they're infatuated with him).

    appollo - what do YOU know about basketball? what is it about your personal involvement with the NBA that makes you some kind of authority on someone who - by your tone - you have no knowledge about whatsoever?
    Brilliant post. And I'm guilty as charged, as well. Agree with everything you said, except no need to single out Apollo.

    Only thing to add is that hiring a GM is not just a basketball decision - NBA basketball is as much a business as it is a sport. There are serious financial implications involved. Winning team = more revenue. Bad contracts cost money, including coaches severances (e.g. Sam Mitchell). BC does have a bit of a reputation of over-paying for medium-tier quality (e.g. Hedo, Jose, Kleiza,...) and then trying to make it up by finding bargain basement gems (e.g. Moon, James Johnson,..). I can see why a bean-counter would and should have some say in the matter.

  11. #51
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    i kind of find it a bit humorous how so many on here are disgusted that an ACCOUNTANT is holding up a basketball-related decision. of course, no one who posts on here is involved in professional basketball in any capacity other than 'fan,' and yet no one here hesitates in the least in letting others know how they think basketball-related decisions should be made. why is it that we think that our own opinions as fans are more important than the opinion of someone who's responsible for managing billion$ in assets, one of which is a pro bball team? before we deride this person as a back-room peon, maybe try to find out the whole story...or wait for it to come out.

    the way i read it, it's not as though he's 'blocking' the decision to re-up BC, but rather, he's one of the few lap dogs who's not comfortable with falling in line with what the board says re. BC (essentially, that they're infatuated with him).

    appollo - what do YOU know about basketball? what is it about your personal involvement with the NBA that makes you some kind of authority on someone who - by your tone - you have no knowledge about whatsoever?
    The difference here is we aren't giving a professional opinion and we don't claim to be giving a professional opinion. We're offering commentary. I'm an accountant. I'm a long time basketball fan. I can honestly say I don't have the credentials to sit down and argue with guys like Richard Peddie and Larry Tanenbaum on whether or not a GM is fit to run the organization. Just like I'm not fit to sit down and tell lead engineers in the company I work for how they should design and operate the assets. I'm not an engineer. I have no experience with working as an engineer or managing engineers. I've never owned or controlled an engineering company. It's crazy. I see the point you're trying to make but I think it's flawed...

  12. #52
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The difference here is we aren't giving a professional opinion and we don't claim to be giving a professional opinion. We're offering commentary. I'm an accountant. I'm a long time basketball fan. I can honestly say I don't have the credentials to sit down and argue with guys like Richard Peddie and Larry Tanenbaum on whether or not a GM is fit to run the organization. Just like I'm not fit to sit down and tell lead engineers in the company I work for how they should design and operate the assets. I'm not an engineer. I have no experience with working as an engineer or managing engineers. I've never owned or controlled an engineering company. It's crazy. I see the point you're trying to make but I think it's flawed...
    I hear you, but guys with no basketball experience (e.g. Tanenbaum and Peddie) were smart enough to hire BC in the first place. Sure, they messed up with Babcock, but has BC done any better this year than Babs first year? I would like to think that the entire MLSE board has learned from their mistakes and that Silvestri is another voice. Good, functioning board of directors should have differing opinions on issues unless a clear-cut decision is obvious, which in this case, is not.

    Silvestri represents the shareholders and is trusted by them to make decisions for them. He has a ton of credibility and is not stupid. I guess the fact that he is an accountant by trade, and representing owners instead of being one himself, just seems to rub people the wrong way. The owners of a sports team (i.e. non-basketball people) have always had the final say in choosing the GM - so how is this different?

    Remember the golden rule? The guy who controls the gold makes the rules. Always has been, always will be.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Heck, why don't we just replace him with...



    What's the diff?
    The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority. - Martin Luther King

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I hear you, but guys with no basketball experience (e.g. Tanenbaum and Peddie) were smart enough to hire BC in the first place. Sure, they messed up with Babcock, but has BC done any better this year than Babs first year? I would like to think that the entire MLSE board has learned from their mistakes and that Silvestri is another voice. Good, functioning board of directors should have differing opinions on issues unless a clear-cut decision is obvious, which in this case, is not.

    Silvestri represents the shareholders and is trusted by them to make decisions for them. He has a ton of credibility and is not stupid. I guess the fact that he is an accountant by trade, and representing owners instead of being one himself, just seems to rub people the wrong way. The owners of a sports team (i.e. non-basketball people) have always had the final say in choosing the GM - so how is this different?

    Remember the golden rule? The guy who controls the gold makes the rules. Always has been, always will be.
    Peddie and Tanenbaum don't have basketball experience but they now have lots of experience managing basketball teams. The only guy opposed to Colangelo is the guy with little background in the business. He's holding up the process for what? Are all these board members going to change their minds? They're already into territory where they're sound like they're not firing him and so they're either going to let him go at the end of the season and rush to bring in somebody who won't have hardly any prep time for the draft OR they're going to let Colangelo's contract expire and let him draft for a team he has a good idea he won't be involved with in the future. Does that make any sense? To me, no. It's pretty dire if they're leaking all this. It looks bad on the franchise in my opinion...

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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I hear you, but guys with no basketball experience (e.g. Tanenbaum and Peddie) were smart enough to hire BC in the first place. Sure, they messed up with Babcock, but has BC done any better this year than Babs first year? I would like to think that the entire MLSE board has learned from their mistakes and that Silvestri is another voice. Good, functioning board of directors should have differing opinions on issues unless a clear-cut decision is obvious, which in this case, is not.

    Silvestri represents the shareholders and is trusted by them to make decisions for them. He has a ton of credibility and is not stupid. I guess the fact that he is an accountant by trade, and representing owners instead of being one himself, just seems to rub people the wrong way. The owners of a sports team (i.e. non-basketball people) have always had the final say in choosing the GM - so how is this different?

    Remember the golden rule? The guy who controls the gold makes the rules. Always has been, always will be.
    I think your way off base here. If people have made mistakes in the past what makes you so sure they won't make them again. Heres an idea, instead of blindly trusting people how about you use your brain and question things, trust me its fun. dont be lazy.

  16. #56
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Heck, why don't we just replace him with...
    What's the diff?
    I suppose the diff would be that a young, rebuilding team doesn't need MORE uncertainty.
    There will already be a TON of uncertainty when it comes to the Roster (even if we just let these guys develop, I doubt theres enough future talent on this roster to seriously compete.), we don't need more questions surrounding management.

    I think Bryan has done a commendable job of creating flexibility for the off-season, bringing in young prospects, and has shown to be more than capable when it comes to drafting talent.

    So the diff lies in whoever we bring in to replace him will either be ill-prepared/unexperienced when it comes to drafting, and then we still have more than a few holes to fill on the roster as well. I, for one, am much more comfortable giving the reins to BC, than some Executive-to-be-named.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote pran wrote: View Post
    I think your way off base here. If people have made mistakes in the past what makes you so sure they won't make them again. Heres an idea, instead of blindly trusting people how about you use your brain and question things, trust me its fun. dont be lazy.
    Blindly trusting people, brain usage, and questioning things is one thing. Blind contempt and baseless claims are another. The current situation sucks but this is how you do a proper rebuild. How do you think BOS, MIA, ORL, ATL, OKC, POR, SAS, CHI got to where they are today? Each one of those teams went through some dreadful times before getting to where they are now - especially OKC and POR seeing all the raging boners for Presti and Pritchard.

    Nobody replied to post #32 or #34 in this thread and I'm a little disappointed. It seems that when the facts of building a team are mentioned and the history of teams currently enjoying success is stated, those looking for heads to roll disappear.

    Arguments based on opinion and emotion do not stand up to facts, I guess. If you hate BC and the way he does things, fine, at least admit it. But don't use basketball arguments to make the case when the facts do not back said opinions up.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Peddie and Tanenbaum don't have basketball experience but they now have lots of experience managing basketball teams. The only guy opposed to Colangelo is the guy with little background in the business. He's holding up the process for what? Are all these board members going to change their minds? They're already into territory where they're sound like they're not firing him and so they're either going to let him go at the end of the season and rush to bring in somebody who won't have hardly any prep time for the draft OR they're going to let Colangelo's contract expire and let him draft for a team he has a good idea he won't be involved with in the future. Does that make any sense? To me, no. It's pretty dire if they're leaking all this. It looks bad on the franchise in my opinion...
    And we are happy with where Peddie and Tanenbaum's experience has brought us? The most experienced business owner in the NBA is Donald Sterling (Clippers). The NBA owner with the most basketball experience is Michael Jordan (Bobcats). There's no correlation to success with either of those attributes.

    Personally, I do not like the way BC builds teams. Maybe he's learned from his mistakes, but I just don't like his philosophies. His teams play soft, with no accountability on defense (led by face-of-the-franchise, Andrea). That's not a Raptors team I can be proud of, win or lose. I have no idea how much Glen Silvestri knows about basketball. He might even be a poster on RR, for all we know (lol). But he has every right questioning whether BC is the right guy to move the franchise forward. And if it means not being prepared for one draft to get the right GM for the next 10 years, then it's the right move, regardless.

    The question of who is putting this information out there? My guess is that it's Feschuk himself. He doesn't like Colangelo and has been taking shots at BC as far back as summer of 2008. He was the first reporter to do it, and if you read his old articles, he actually made some good points about the problems with BC's management style early on.

    http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NBA/article/450196

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I suppose the diff would be that a young, rebuilding team doesn't need MORE uncertainty.
    There will already be a TON of uncertainty when it comes to the Roster (even if we just let these guys develop, I doubt theres enough future talent on this roster to seriously compete.), we don't need more questions surrounding management.

    I think Bryan has done a commendable job of creating flexibility for the off-season, bringing in young prospects, and has shown to be more than capable when it comes to drafting talent.

    So the diff lies in whoever we bring in to replace him will either be ill-prepared/unexperienced when it comes to drafting, and then we still have more than a few holes to fill on the roster as well. I, for one, am much more comfortable giving the reins to BC, than some Executive-to-be-named.
    Joey, I understand you're point but that's exactly the poison the BC is feeding the board of directors let alone the fans of this team. Never assume that the replacement is ill prepared. It is pretty clear that both Peddie and Tanenbaum went for a "brand" in Colangelo. My point is, he has cleared cap space and got us potentially a top 3-5 pick. It's time for him to move aside and let the new GM re-start from scratch. Do you really think that this "brand" will settle for less than what he's getting now? Five mil per year for another five years will be HIS BASE COMPENSATION (that's how he's going to sell it). Oh, and guess what, with Donnie Walsh departing New York, guess what franchise he's going to use as leverage - you got it, the New York Knicks.

    I don't buy the lack of knowledgeable executives around this league. There's plenty of them. Ownership just needs to take the blinders off, that's all.
    The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority. - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The POR example shows the clear lack of patience and hypocricy Raptors fans currently have. POR did go through a rebuild to get where they are now, they had a horrible team with a horrible reputation (Jail Blazers) before this, and did in fact lose the support of the community for a few seasons (rightfully so with all the on and off court disappointments).

    Here is POR's record over the last number of years:



    Compare POR's recent history with TOR's:



    Using this as a template, TOR is in 2006. POR had 2 more lottery seasons before they qualified again in 2009.

    Since OKC and Presti is also another example frequently used, here is their recent history:



    To build a competitive team properly, suffering is involved. Raptors fans want a winning franchise but they do not want to go through the steps necessary to get there. Even the most ideal situations that fans/posters claim to desire (OKC and POR) took years to build - expecially a team like OKC.
    Matt, I don't mind suffering for as long as the man at the helm has long-term vision. BC tends to really gamble and mostly on the short term (knee-jerk reactions). I don't buy the "we are now building without Bosh business". He's now building around Bargnani with the types of players that he's bringing in / drafting, etc.
    The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority. - Martin Luther King

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