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Thread: Keep Calderon?

  1. #41
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    Do you know what makes someone a starter in the NBA?

    They start.

    Calderon starts, therefore he is a starter.


    Does he deserve to be a starter? Yes, absolutely. If you were to list the top 30 point gaurds in the NBA, he is on the list. No question. I prefer him over lots of guys. Are there any backups that are better than him? I doubt it. (Don't say Jarrent Jack).

    Now, he's pretty average as a starter, but he's still a starter.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Why do people think that a good defensive 2 can hide Calderon's deficiencies at the defensive end? Wouldn't the 2 also be guarding a player on the perimeter?

    One way or another they should see what Jose can fetch on the trade market, but if you can't score anything of value for him then keep him on the roster. He is at the top when it comes to back up pg's and is the only player on the team currently that can create scoring opportunities for other players.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Are there any stats that reflect Calderon's defensive effectiveness or lack there of from last season to this season? Visibly he seems to have improved this season...or atleast he looks like he's making more effort this season.

  4. #44
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Jose Calderon is as much a starting point guard as Jarrett Jack.

    The Raptors have to make PG a priority this draft/summer and ensure that they get a floor general that can play defense, be a cornerstone for years to come, and has potential to become one of the top 5 PGs in the next three years. Easier said than done, but that should be goal #1.



    Keep Calderon as a backup as a guy who'll be in the new PGs ear. All accounts suggest that Calderon is a great locker room presence, a true professional, and a great teammate, why would anyone not like to have him on this team. Now, if there's a package out there where we get to trade him for more defense or picks, that's an option too. At this point I think Calderon is an asset, not a liability, just as long as he's not starting next year.
    I could'nt agree with your comment more, we need a #1 PG for the future I don't know if Bayless is the answer, Calderon would be a better backup point guard for this team. I know everyone is talking about Irving, I don't believe he'll be there unless we get the number 1 pick, which should go to Cleaveland who will pick Irving for sure with Davis as there backup mentor. Lets not forget about a kid named Kembo Walker out of Uconn, he is the number 2 rated PG in the draft and in the top 8 overall the Raptors should take a real like at this kid, only 18 and he plays with alot of heart on defence.

  5. #45
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    What happens to Calderon largely depends on what happens in the draft, free agency, trades, and whether or not the NBA is successful in getting a hard cap.

    The club has several pressing needs. One is SF, another is a PG for the future, and another is a defensive minded centre. Come draft, the only PG, I think Colangelo will use a top 5 pick on is Kyrie Irving, should he be available. If BC lands Irving, I think he tries to move Calderon for another piece like a SF or defensive C. Problem is, if a hard cap comes in, it's going to be hard to move him because of his contract. It would also be nice to keep him as a mentor to Irving but not at the money he's making now.

    Should Irving not be there, BC will go after a SF. They're are several available. If that happens, I don't see him moving Calderon.

    The one thing I noticed about Calderon is that after signing his big deal in the summer of 2008, his speed on the court declined dramatically. When he first came into the league, he was really quick. That's been lost the last few years. Perhaps it's injuries or just age catching up to him, put that seems to have set him back and weakened his game and subsequently made him lose confidence.

    With his style of play, I think Calderon would fit in nicely with a team like the Lakers or Heat. His ability to calm down an offence and run a 1/2 court offence would be greatly beneficial to either one of these teams, both of whom lack point guards. His deficiencies on D could also be masked somewhat by stronger defenders behind him, especially on the Lakers with the size of Odom, Bynum, and Gasol.

  6. #46
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I've given you two real examples now. You are basing your stance only on how you value him. I've shown you two examples of his perceived worth around the league. One recent and one from two years ago. I can't take this any further because there is no more information. Believe what you will but I'll stick with with the few facts I have and the notion that the league values him based on their opinion and not your opinion.
    All I'm saying is dude, that's it's gonna be really hard to get rid of him as a focal point. I don't think it's fair to use an example saying half the league was calling for him 2 years ago when he had an expiring deal, for half as much as it is now, and was playing at a higher level.

    There was the Bobcats (that they backed out of) and I remember ATL rumors before the Hinrich trade (which I GUESS would've made sense for the Hawks) but that's it.

    I've adjusted to the idea he's gonna be here all next year. Of course he could get traded 1st day in the offseason and i'll look like an idiot.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  7. #47
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    We get Irving this summer, let Jose mentor him for half a season or a year and then move him when his contract expires.

    As much as I like Bayless, he cannot run our offense. He doesn't pass well and doesn`t get the other guys involved the way Jose does.
    Caldy runs the pick and roll so well. Look what he`s done for Amir and now with Honest Ed!

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    Quote ahoang wrote: View Post
    We get Irving this summer, let Jose mentor him for half a season or a year and then move him when his contract expires.

    As much as I like Bayless, he cannot run our offense. He doesn't pass well and doesn`t get the other guys involved the way Jose does.
    Caldy runs the pick and roll so well. Look what he`s done for Amir and now with Honest Ed!
    Irving could mentor Caldy

  9. #49
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    All I'm saying is dude, that's it's gonna be really hard to get rid of him as a focal point. I don't think it's fair to use an example saying half the league was calling for him 2 years ago when he had an expiring deal, for half as much as it is now, and was playing at a higher level.

    There was the Bobcats (that they backed out of) and I remember ATL rumors before the Hinrich trade (which I GUESS would've made sense for the Hawks) but that's it.

    I've adjusted to the idea he's gonna be here all next year. Of course he could get traded 1st day in the offseason and i'll look like an idiot.
    I think he'll be here unless they get a PG in the lotto. My deal is you said he had low value, he's hard to trade. I'm saying on the contrary.

  10. #50
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    Should keep Calderon regardless and trade Bargnani. Let Ed Davis develop with Amir as a good defensive combo that is highly efficient at the offense as well. A well placed Bargnani trade could land us a very nice player, along with a lotto pick. We've seen him play after recovering from the flu. When he can't shoot, he only hurts the team cause he doesn't defend properly, doesn't box out, doesn't rebound ... its quite frustrating.

    The chances of drafting Irving are likely possible only if we get the #1 overall pick. If we do land Irving, Calderon will teach the veteran PG tricks to Irving. PG is the hardest position to learn, and Calderon's experience is very valuable. Plus, Calderon's positive influence in morality and leadership are invisible assets to the team.

  11. #51
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    First off, The Raptors can't worry about drafting for need. They need talent and they should just get the best player available, be in PF, SF, C, whatever....

    As for Jose, he's a curious case because, while his numbers SAY he's a top 10 PG, I'm not sure, after watching him all these years, what he is and what all these numbers mean. About a week back, Chris Paul got injured and Jarrett Jack had to start. Jarrett, after having a brutal year, put up 23 pts, 7 assist and 6 rebounds and drained 3 FTs to beat a VERY good Dallas Mavericks team. When given the chance and minutes, Jack performed well and put up numbers in a winning situation. What's not to say that if Jack has stayed, he wouldn't put up similiar numbers? Of if Calderon had to play behind Paul, he wouldn't struggle like Jack? Is Calderon just putting up these numbers because he's the lead guard on a 18 win team that not that concerned with playing defence and doesn't have any other ball handlers on their team?

    The one skill that Jose seems to have is to able to 'run' a team that has players that can't create their shot for themselves, which makes him a prime candidate to be a back up point guard for a contending team (Miami would LOVE him, but not quite sure he's suited for the Triangle Offence). If the Raptors draft a PG or even a wingman who needs the ball in his hands, I'm not quite sure if what Calderon brings to the table necessarily can help a team. You saw him last year struggle with additional ball handlers on the team (Hedo, Jack) and guys that tended to dominate the ball (Bosh). If the Raptors do decide to keep him, best case scenario would be to come off the bench and run the 2nd units with guys like Amir, Klieza and Weems (if he's here) where the ball can be in his hands and he can make good decisions, while the first unit can be handed over to whomever they draft, along with Davis, DeRozan and Bayless.

    (Of course, I get the feeling The Raps will draft Enes Kanter, no matter what, in The GM's Quest to further justify building the team around Bargnani, no matter the cost, while fulfilling my curiousity on what it feels like to have the flesh burning from my skin.)

  12. #52
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    Quote jd4 wrote: View Post
    The club has several pressing needs. One is SF, another is a PG for the future, and another is a defensive minded centre. Come draft, the only PG, I think Colangelo will use a top 5 pick on is Kyrie Irving, should he be available. If BC lands Irving, I think he tries to move Calderon for another piece like a SF or defensive C. Problem is, if a hard cap comes in, it's going to be hard to move him because of his contract. It would also be nice to keep him as a mentor to Irving but not at the money he's making now.

    Should Irving not be there, BC will go after a SF. They're are several available. If that happens, I don't see him moving Calderon.

    The one thing I noticed about Calderon is that after signing his big deal in the summer of 2008, his speed on the court declined dramatically. When he first came into the league, he was really quick. That's been lost the last few years. Perhaps it's injuries or just age catching up to him, put that seems to have set him back and weakened his game and subsequently made him lose confidence.

    With his style of play, I think Calderon would fit in nicely with a team like the Lakers or Heat. His ability to calm down an offence and run a 1/2 court offence would be greatly beneficial to either one of these teams, both of whom lack point guards. His deficiencies on D could also be masked somewhat by stronger defenders behind him, especially on the Lakers with the size of Odom, Bynum, and Gasol.
    He would be great with the Lakers, and defensively, well hell they make Fisher look ok defensively. The Lakers weak point this year has been the PG, although the triangle offense makes it difficult to flip out a PG. A summertime of learning though would happen with class-act Jose.
    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Why do people think that a good defensive 2 can hide Calderon's deficiencies at the defensive end? Wouldn't the 2 also be guarding a player on the perimeter?

    One way or another they should see what Jose can fetch on the trade market, but if you can't score anything of value for him then keep him on the roster. He is at the top when it comes to back up pg's and is the only player on the team currently that can create scoring opportunities for other players.
    No kidding on defensive point. I am for keeping him too, and as for the contract, well the drafted rookie PG would be making peanuts for a 'star' and it will balance out for the next couple of years. If he is traded for another PG then done.

    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    First off, The Raptors can't worry about drafting for need. They need talent and they should just get the best player available, be in PF, SF, C, whatever....
    Very much against this thinking (unless it is purely to trade the pick for another one + stuff). It is the general school of thought, but it is a flat draft, and at the end of the day taking longer to rebuild because we drafted ANOTHER PF or SG would piss me off to no end. Build a team, not a resume.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors get Irving Calderon is done in Toronto in my opinion. If they don't get Irving then all bets are off. The Raptors tried to move him last off-season and in doing so they chose Jack over him. That fell through and in the end they ended up choosing Calderon over Jack. If Colangelo is here he won't enter next season with Bayless as the best PG on roster. No way, no how. He's not ready.
    nicely said my brother
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  14. #54
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    I've always been a caldy supporter, and argued that jack should be the one to go. I still think he is a starter in the nba/makes a top 30 best pgs in the league. However, I don't think he is a top ten pg, and I don't see him taking a team to the NBA finals. I think we would all agree that we are at least 2+ years away from contending.

    My thoughts are draft the best player available, which hopefully will be either a pg or a small forward. If we draft a small forward let Caldy/bayless have another year. If we draft Irving have him play behind Calderon at the start of the year and reduce Calderon's number as the year goes on. In year two they are playing roughly the same amount of minutes at the start and by the end Irving is your number one. You can then resign calderon for a more reasonable salary. At that point we've (hopefully) got a pg tandem that is one of the best in the league. Obviously, this is contingent on a several variables but I personally don't see Bayless as our PG of the future and I'd rather have an irving/calderon tandem than an Irving/ Bayless. As someone else noted, if we draft a pg then they will be getting paid on the rookie scale so our overall pg salaries shouldn't handicap us.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  15. #55
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    If we pick up a good PG in the draft, i'd keep Calderon as a backup for sure.

  16. #56
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    A young, pass-first PG who is better defensively than Calderon is exactly what this teams needs ---> the ideal solution would be to draft Irving. IF they do draft Irving, I think Calderon would be the better backup/mentor than Bayless, since he plays the game the right way we would want Irving to, putting the team first.

    With a better defensive PG, a better defensive SF (hopefully either drafted, signed or traded for) and an improved DeRozan, suddenly Bargnani's defensive shortcomings won't be so magnifed.

    Bayless has much better trade value than Calderon, given his age, salary and potential, enabling the Raptors to use him to address a need at another position.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Mar 15th, 2011 at 09:08 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    As our starting PG? No, hell no. He's been nothing short of a failure since that contract was signed.
    agreed

  18. #58
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    Calderon is terrible. Didn't yahoo rank him like 24th in the league as a starting point behind Jarett Jack before the season.
    And that was before he led the team to this awful awful season.
    Hopefully he gets a career ending injury so we can pretend he never played here.

  19. #59
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    Quote keffyboy wrote: View Post
    Calderon is terrible. Didn't yahoo rank him like 24th in the league as a starting point behind Jarett Jack before the season.
    And that was before he led the team to this awful awful season.
    Hopefully he gets a career ending injury so we can pretend he never played here.
    Harsh. While I would love to get a significant upgrade, I would never wish that on a player - especially one who seems like such a good person. But to each their own.

  20. #60
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    I really think they should keem him, as the backup point guard of Mr.Kyrie Irving. It would be a great duo of point guards. That's if they can get Irving. In that case, I think they should try to trade Bayless more than Calderon. If they can't get Irving then it's another story. I would then go with a small forward like Derrick Williams and as for the point guards I would still trade Bayless and see what's the situatuon with Calderon.

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