View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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    1 1.49%
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    18 26.87%
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    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #2041
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I don`t get how anyone can be unhappy with Demar. all of his stats are up this year and he has visibly improved on defense. I think people forget how poor he was on defense and don`t see how far he`s come. His handle` which is his biggest weakness is better and he has learned to hide it by playing more back to the basket. I think some Raptors fans are so used to failure that they can`t see what they have.
    +1

  2. #2042
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    If the work ethic translates into better dribbling and defence then I'm all for Demar. Until that happens, the jury's out. In the last loss to GSW, Klay Thompson carved him a new one. Don't get me wrong, he's a great kid but he loses the ball too much and simply cannot adequately defend his position.
    Um...no. To say that Thompson 'carved him a new one' is unfair. GSW set screen after screen to free up Thompson for threes .... if Demar gets no help, time for recovery or team rotation, that's a team D problem, and perhaps even a problem with coaching.

    I see Demar constantly improving in all areas ... he knows his weaknesses and if he's seeking out assistance from one of the best one-on-one defenders in league history, I'll consider that another positive step.

    I'm not ready to give up on him just yet ... quality guy on a not so quality team. Tony Allen or Thabo do not make the Raps a winner. So I guess you're right ... jury's out, but they're leaning towards acquittal.

  3. #2043
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is complaining about DeRozan's work ethic.

    It's just that the results leave a lot to be desired. I see a lot of people praising his "improvements". But he went from "completely awful" to "mediocre". Yeah he's improved, but he's still well below what he need to be.

    IMO, DeRozan needs to significantly improve his shooting (both mid-range and 3-point), ball-handling, rebounding, defence....and most importantly, his consistency. 34 points is nice, but when you follow it up just 42 total points over your next 3 games, that's big a problem. Teams cannot rely on players who don't perform the same way night in night out.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Mar 6th, 2013 at 09:35 AM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #2044
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Inconsistency is the issue.

    If DeMar was consistent I would give him my Raptor heart.

    It is very difficult not to be impressed by the article.

    Work ethic and desire plus the commitment to see it through are rare attributes especially once (with proper management) money is set for life.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #2045
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't think anyone is complaining about DeRozan's work ethic.

    It's just that the results leave a lot to be desired. I see a lot of people praising his "improvements". But he went from "completely awful" to "mediocre". Yeah he's improved, but he's still well below what he need to be.

    IMO, DeRozan needs to significantly improve his shooting (both mid-range and 3-point), ball-handling, rebounding, defence....and most importantly, his consistency. 34 points is nice, but when you follow it up just 42 total points over your next 3 games, that's big a problem. Teams cannot rely on players who don't perform the same way night in night out.
    couldn't agree more... especially the shooting and ball handling part.. i'm not particularly unhappy with derozan... and if he was playing with an upper echelon playmaker, and some above average perimeter players, he'd almost be fine the way he is... but as the team is now, he's going to have to develop skills that complement lowry and gay.. or else he becomes redundant

    even the great MJ needed ball handlers and shooters

  6. #2046
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    couldn't agree more... especially the shooting and ball handling part.. i'm not particularly unhappy with derozan... and if he was playing with an upper echelon playmaker, and some above average perimeter players, he'd almost be fine the way he is... but as the team is now, he's going to have to develop skills that complement lowry and gay.. or else he becomes redundant

    even the great MJ needed ball handlers and shooters
    Agreed. Colangelo is just as much to blame for his construction of an imbalanced roster.

    Having said that, the best improvement in DeMar's game to me has been his willingness to mix it up in the post. He's got a strength advantage, and a leaping advantage against a lot of opposing SGs. I just wish he spent more time down there, instead of settling for the dreaded long twos (i.e. the lazy player's best friend).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #2047
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I just wish he spent more time down there, instead of settling for the dreaded long twos (i.e. the lazy player's best friend).
    the problem is, playing with lowry and gay... and assuming bargs is not in the future plans of the team, those long twos are the shots that SHOULD be available to him... and he's just not the guy to hit them

    on the bright side, developing that aspect of his game isn't out of the question... it just isn't there right now.. so right now, he's redundant

    one thing i've noticed... and mind you, this may be absolutely fabricated in my own head... as i have no intention of looking at box scores to confirm anything... just stating my own observation, which i'll admit may be wrong...

    when Gay is having an off game... Demar also has an off game... because they play the same offensive game against the same defense... they complement each other horribly... that's not to say they aren't both top notch players, they are... but they're two left feet

  8. #2048
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    If the Raptors had more movement in their offense I don't think Gay and DeRozan are redundant.... ideal? No. But not redundant.

    Getting the ball moving shifting the defense and creates openings.

    Right now slashers have a hard time slashing because the offense doesn't allow lanes to open.

    The ISO plays end up being forced shots because the D can pack the key.

    It is not that simple but it is part of the problem.

    I hate offense that is JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. Great when they fall but when they don't welcome to 5-8 minute field goal scoring droughts.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #2049
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    the problem is, playing with lowry and gay... and assuming bargs is not in the future plans of the team, those long twos are the shots that SHOULD be available to him... and he's just not the guy to hit them

    on the bright side, developing that aspect of his game isn't out of the question... it just isn't there right now.. so right now, he's redundant

    one thing i've noticed... and mind you, this may be absolutely fabricated in my own head... as i have no intention of looking at box scores to confirm anything... just stating my own observation, which i'll admit may be wrong...

    when Gay is having an off game... Demar also has an off game... because they play the same offensive game against the same defense... they complement each other horribly... that's not to say they aren't both top notch players, they are... but they're two left feet
    But are they? I thought when Gay was traded to Toronto that he wouldn't be able to play alongside Demar because of how similar their games are, but I've noticed the defense focuses on Gay SO much that Derozan can score at ease. It makes up for Gay's off-games. It's awesome having 2 guys that can score, I just wish one of them could hit the open 3 (-_-)

  10. #2050
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    But are they? I thought when Gay was traded to Toronto that he wouldn't be able to play alongside Demar because of how similar their games are, but I've noticed the defense focuses on Gay SO much that Derozan can score at ease. It makes up for Gay's off-games. It's awesome having 2 guys that can score, I just wish one of them could hit the open 3 (-_-)
    Rudy is more than capable of hitting the open three. BUT he doesn't! We NEED THAT MAN.

  11. #2051
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Rudy is more than capable of hitting the open three. BUT he doesn't! We NEED THAT MAN.
    He and Landry better fix their shots this summer. Imagine if they were netting 35% or better

  12. #2052
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    He and Landry better fix their shots this summer. Imagine if they were netting 35% or better
    Exactly.

  13. #2053
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I don't care about character or work ethic. At the end of the day i want to see results. This is DeRozan's 4th year in the league now, and yes his mid range game is much improved. But other than that? he's still the same player.

    As for Payton's "he can be an all-star" comment. Alot of people said the same thing about Bargnani early in his career. Well?

    Just to quote a fellow poster in this forum: "DeRozan's a one dimensional player and he's one dimension isn't even that good"

    Not shitting on the guy but it's true. DeRozan's got a great work ethic, that's great but at the end of the day you gotta have the skills too. Bargnani got a lot of skills but he doesn't have the work ethic of a DeRozan. You know what i mean? to be a star or an all-star in this league, you gotta have BOTH.
    is this a joke post?

  14. #2054
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    is this a joke post?
    Yeah, he just contradicted his original statement with the last paragraph.

  15. #2055
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    He and Landry better fix their shots this summer. Imagine if they were netting 35% or better
    They have both shown an ability in the past.

    Hopefully they can regain their form this off season.

    You put Fields, Ross, and Gay out there shooting over 35% from 3 and suddenly things are going to open up.... and just imagine some movement gets put in to the offense!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #2056
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    is this a joke post?
    I took it to mean that work ethic is meaningless without legit skill. I have a great work ethic and would work twice as hard as any Raptor if given the chance to play sports as my career, making $9.5M... but even I wouldn't want me on the team! lol I think TRex's frustration is the same frustration I feel when people say "but DeRozan loves Toronto" - who cares? He's getting paid to do a job and all I care about as a fan is his ability to do his job consistently well.

    Work ethic is important, vital even, but is not enough on its own. At this point in his career, DeRozan's skills are far below expectations, especially for a starter who's going to be paid $9.5M next season and gets the hype that he does. So he's a gym rat. So he claims to love Toronto. He's still an overpaid, one-dimensional inefficient scorer who disappears completely for games at at time. He's a horrendous 3pt shooter, can't dribble-penetrate effectively and is a below average defender. His work ethic and love for Toronto is the only thing shielding him from the same "hate" that has been directed at Bargnani for years. At the end of the day, he's just not a great player.

  17. #2057
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    In case it isn't obvious, the reason for criticizing DeRozan despite his great work ethic is his salary. Now I'm sure someone will say now wait a minute, that's Colangelo's fault! Sure, but at the end of the day DeRozan has to earn that contract somehow and you can't just ignore it.

    I truly admire DeRozan's desire to get better. Imagine if Bargnani had that level of commitment! But when you look at how much he is going to make, no matter how much he improves his game, he is not going to turn into a $9.5M player next season. He's just not there yet and it's not going to happen overnight.

    Ideally if Colangelo had given him what he was actually worth, for example ($6M, $8M, $9M, $10M), then you wouldn't hear so many complaints about his game until maybe the 3rd year and that would depend on how much he's improved by then. Here's all the starting shooting guards in the NBA ranked by 2013-2014 pay.. I've included some bench players where they are getting more minutes than the starter. No matter how hard he works and how great of an attitude he has, you can't sit there and tell me you think DeMar DeRozan is a top 10 SG:

    Kobe Bryant ($30.4M)
    Joe Johnson ($21.5M)
    Dwyane Wade ($18.6M)
    Andre Iguodala ($16.2M)
    Eric Gordon ($14.2M)
    Danny Granger ($14.0M)
    James Harden ($13.7M)
    Ben Gordon ($13.2M)
    Monta Ellis ($11.0M)
    DeMar DeRozan ($9.5M)
    Rodney Stuckey ($8.5M)
    Marcus Thornton ($8.0M)
    George Hill ($8.0M)
    Aaron Afflalo ($7.8M)
    John Salmons ($7.6M)
    Wesley Matthews ($6.9M)
    Jamal Crawford ($5.3M)
    Courtney Lee ($5.2M)
    Luke Ridnour ($4.3M)
    Bradley Beal ($4.3M)
    Jared Dudley ($4.3M)
    OJ Mayo ($4.2M)
    Thabo Sefolosha ($3.9M)
    Dion Waiters ($3.9M)
    Danny Green ($3.7M)
    JR Smith ($2.9M)
    Brandon Knight ($2.8M)
    Atlanta SG, aka revolving door (~$2.5M)
    Klay Thompson ($2.3M)
    Tony Allen (no contract)
    Randy Foye (no contract)
    Nick Young (no contract)
    Gerald Henderson (no contract)
    Marco Belinelli (no contract)
    Tyreke Evans (no contract)
    Last edited by ebrian; Wed Mar 6th, 2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: missed klay thompson
    your pal,
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  18. #2058
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors had more movement in their offense I don't think Gay and DeRozan are redundant.... ideal? No. But not redundant.

    Getting the ball moving shifting the defense and creates openings.

    Right now slashers have a hard time slashing because the offense doesn't allow lanes to open.

    The ISO plays end up being forced shots because the D can pack the key.

    It is not that simple but it is part of the problem.

    I hate offense that is JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. JUMP SHOT. Great when they fall but when they don't welcome to 5-8 minute field goal scoring droughts.
    "Getting the ball moving shifting the defense and creates openings" that leads to a jump shot is perfectly fine, as long as this jump shot is uncontested and taken by a plyer, who is capable of hitting it more often than not...

    Contensted Jump Shot after contested Jump Shop withiout any ball movement is what drives me nuts. I thin we are on the same page here... just felt like clarifying.

    As for DD's contract, yeah... it does put the player at a position when he needs to prove every night he's worth it. And to do that Demar needs to accomplish two things ppl have pointed out here: a. become consistent b. improve. Time will tell. I said in the beginning of the season this contract extension is crazy, then I saw a stretch of games and changed my mind to "maybe". Very curious to see what DD brings next season. I do not thing anybody's trading him/for him in the next few months anyways...

  19. #2059
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Well lets put it this way Bargnani got that extension just because DeRozan is earning it and working hard to earn it, In 4 years DeRozan is much more important to the team and has provided more to Toronto than Bargnani ever has in 7.

  20. #2060
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Well lets put it this way Bargnani got that extension just because DeRozan is earning it and working hard to earn it, In 4 years DeRozan is much more important to the team and has provided more to Toronto than Bargnani ever has in 7.
    I actually see a lot of similarities between Bargnani & DeRozan, in terms of the unfair expectations heaped on them thanks to management/coaching claims, limited improvements that have never been sustained for long stretches and being incredibly inefficient at the single dimension (scoring) they're supposed to excel at. And they're both overpaid relative to their true production.

    I also don't think either Bargnani or DeRozan are/were as important to the team's long-term success as management would make it seem to be. Fans buy into the hype churned out by the franchise's marketing engine, which is then lapped up by the media and spewed out as fact or truth. Both are role players who aren't good enough to be anything more than the team's #3/#4 scoring option. Given the fact that Gay is the team's cornerstone for at least the next few seasons, the team can't afford to have any more inefficient volume scorers on the roster (let alone starting), especially when their defense and peripherals are all below average (and don't forget their significant salary hits).

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