View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #2461
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    What lol... can you explain how DeRozan is a below average SG?
    10th in FGM amongst over 200 guards, in a league of 30 teams. nope, lebron or bust.

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  3. #2462
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Circles. That is all this is. I'm tired of it. I bet others are too. We'll all see soon enough. I hope nothing but the best for DD but I'm not betting on it.
    How is it talking in circles. You just consistently fail to present counter-arguments supported with any real evidence. You said DeMar and Gay don't mesh... I showed you statistics proving that they increased both their volume AND efficiency when they played together. You then proceed to reach for a cop out as usual.

  4. #2463
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    And the guy who really sticks out on that team for me was Rasheed. PF/Cs who can shoot 3s and defend the rim - qualities that directly made up for Hamilton's weaknesses - are incredibly rare. Almost non-existent. Could be that without those specific qualities that Sheed brought to the table, the Pistons wouldn't have reached anywhere near the levels they did.

    Of course, it's more complicated than that. Ben Wallace was a really unique player, which adds another big, fat wrinkle to any analysis of what was going on with that Detroit team. But I think there's real merit to the idea that if you have a Hamilton/Derozan-esque player as your 2, having a stretch 4/5 who can block shots is essential. Which, as has been said before, would help to explain why BC insisted on hanging on to Bargnani.
    Hello Austin Daye!

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  6. #2464
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    I ran across an interesting thing yesterday that seriously discounts all the love for Danny Green as a great defender, usually used as pointing out how much better he'd be for the Raps than DD. Synergy Sports' very focused stats gathering says that Green is very good in TEAM defense situations (within Pop's arguably best team defense of the past 15 years, anchored by Mr Tim Duncan), but in iso and spot up defense, he's ranked 303rd in the league, allowing 1.09 points per possession. It would seem he's nowhere near the great defender that most fans and media tout him as.

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  8. #2465
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Hello Austin Daye!
    Lmfao got a chuckle out of this.

  9. #2466
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    How is it talking in circles. You just consistently fail to present counter-arguments supported with any real evidence. You said DeMar and Gay don't mesh... I showed you statistics proving that they increased both their volume AND efficiency when they played together. You then proceed to reach for a cop out as usual.
    I've had this discussion for the last 4 months. If you really want my counter-arguments go look at my past posts.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  10. #2467
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've had this discussion for the last 4 months. If you really want my counter-arguments go look at my past posts.
    Cop out.

  11. #2468
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I dont mean to bring up my old post but:

    "Somewhere along the lines of the season, DeMar despite playing well has become the new Bargnani for fans"

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  13. #2469
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I ran across an interesting thing yesterday that seriously discounts all the love for Danny Green as a great defender, usually used as pointing out how much better he'd be for the Raps than DD. Synergy Sports' very focused stats gathering says that Green is very good in TEAM defense situations (within Pop's arguably best team defense of the past 15 years, anchored by Mr Tim Duncan), but in iso and spot up defense, he's ranked 303rd in the league, allowing 1.09 points per possession. It would seem he's nowhere near the great defender that most fans and media tout him as.
    This is interesting. Being on a great defensive team definitely does wonders for your defensive numbers. Do you have DD's PPP allowed stats?

  14. #2470
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I ran across an interesting thing yesterday that seriously discounts all the love for Danny Green as a great defender, usually used as pointing out how much better he'd be for the Raps than DD. Synergy Sports' very focused stats gathering says that Green is very good in TEAM defense situations (within Pop's arguably best team defense of the past 15 years, anchored by Mr Tim Duncan), but in iso and spot up defense, he's ranked 303rd in the league, allowing 1.09 points per possession. It would seem he's nowhere near the great defender that most fans and media tout him as.
    Did it suggest that Green is better than other Spurs players w/r/t team defence? Or just that Spurs tend to rank higher than non-Spurs in general, because their system is better?

    (For, as we here know from seven years of evidence, team defence and individual defence are mutually exclusive skills.)

  15. #2471
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Cop out.
    Sure.

    When you get up to 13,600 posts, lets see how willing you are to engage in the same argument over and over.

    I've had my fill.

    If you want to proclaim victory, go right ahead.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  16. #2472
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    I dont mean to bring up my old post but:

    "Somewhere along the lines of the season, DeMar despite playing well has become the new Bargnani for fans"
    It's simply a by-product of superfans not acknowledging the significance of their favourite player's flaws.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  18. #2473
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is interesting. Being on a great defensive team definitely does wonders for your defensive numbers. Do you have DD's PPP allowed stats?
    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Did it suggest that Green is better than other Spurs players w/r/t team defence? Or just that Spurs tend to rank higher than non-Spurs in general, because their system is better?

    (For, as we here know from seven years of evidence, team defence and individual defence are mutually exclusive skills.)
    Unfortunately you have to pay to get access to Synergy's data. I read that in an article, where it concluded that one of the factors is that Green gambles too much hedging on help D, leaving his cover wide open, and him scrambling pack too late, which is one of those things not often picked up by observers who aren't studying game film.
    Last edited by p00ka; Tue Aug 13th, 2013 at 01:16 PM.

  19. #2474
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sure.

    When you get up to 13,600 posts, lets see how willing you are to engage in the same argument over and over.

    I've had my fill.

    If you want to proclaim victory, go right ahead.
    Funny you seemed really eager to give long-winded responses in the "Signs of Tanking" thread.

  20. #2475
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sure.

    When you get up to 13,600 posts, lets see how willing you are to engage in the same argument over and over.

    I've had my fill.

    If you want to proclaim victory, go right ahead.
    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Funny you seemed really eager to give long-winded responses in the "Signs of Tanking" thread.
    Matt52, I'm trying to reform myself in my attitude with you, but this kind of stuff makes it hard, man. Whether it was Bargnani, or now DeMar, you keep initiating the same arguments over and over again, which is exactly what my "burr in the saddle" has been with you, with a secondary gripe being this "I've had my fill" line coming when someone presents something factual that trips you. Sorry, but that's how it seems anyway.

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  22. #2476
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's simply a by-product of superfans not acknowledging the significance of their favourite player's flaws.
    or armchair analysts trying to be overly critical (read, trying to sound smart) through the use of [useless] PER?

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  24. #2477
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Matt52, I'm trying to reform myself in my attitude with you, but this kind of stuff makes it hard, man. Whether it was Bargnani, or now DeMar, you keep initiating the same arguments over and over again, which is exactly what my "burr in the saddle" has been with you, with a secondary gripe being this "I've had my fill" line coming when someone presents something factual that trips you. Sorry, but that's how it seems anyway.
    In fairness, this exact debate has been had probably a half dozen times (at least) since the midway point of this past season. Lots of opinions and statistics on both sides of the debate have been presented, giving strong, passionate arguments on both sides of the DeRozan coin. In past debates I was among the most vocal proponents of the "trade DeRozan" faction (for lack of a better term), but I have had no desire to get into it again.

    Posters are free to comb through past threads and pickup the past debates, rather than starting them anew. All the posts, opinions and statistics are there to read, analyze, discuss and debate... Matt52 (and others on both sides) have made their points several times over... I'd suggest reading through past threads and commenting on them to get those debates going again. Doing so will allow new perspectives to be heard and fresh debate to be had, all without having to repost opinions/arguments/statistics for the umpteenth time.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Aug 13th, 2013 at 01:52 PM.

  25. #2478
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    or armchair analysts trying to be overly critical (read, trying to sound smart) through the use of [useless] PER?
    It's a stretch to say PER is useless. It just doesn't seem to work that well for wing players.

    According to PER JR Smith is better than Paul George.

  26. #2479
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Funny you seemed really eager to give long-winded responses in the "Signs of Tanking" thread.
    Is this the "Signs of Tanking" thread?

    Is this the same topic of conversation as there?

    I've given a number of long winded responses on a number of topics. The one in question, DeRozan, has been beat to death - which I acknowledge having played a large part in. I'm tired of it. You're a homer with a bigger man crush on DeRozan. That is cool. I've been wrong before and, hell, maybe I'm wrong now. We'll see.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  27. #2480
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    In fairness, this exact debate has been had probably a half dozen times (at least) since the midway point of this past season. Lots of opinions and statistics on both sides of the debate have been presented, giving strong, passionate arguments on both sides of the DeRozan coin. In past debates I was among the most vocal proponents of the "trade DeRozan" faction (for lack of a better term), but I have had no desire to get into it again.

    Posters are free to comb through past threads and pickup the past debates, rather than starting them anew. All the posts, opinions and statistics are there to read, analyze, discuss and debate... Matt52 (and others on both sides) have made their points several times over... I'd suggest reading through past threads and commenting on them to get those debates going again. Doing so will allow new perspectives to be heard and fresh debate to be had, all without having to repost opinions/arguments/statistics for the umpteenth time.
    Give me a break dude, he's the one who started this whole debate and then couldn't finish it, so he used the cop-out that he's "tired" of repeating himself, when you know as well as I that nobody on here ever gets tired of sharing their opinion. When you speak to someone like this you should expect a response:

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Why bother?

    That doesn't change the fact he is an average at best offensive player who settles for long 2s and is a mediocre at best defensive player.

    That replied quote RIGHT THERE is the PERFECT example of the Raptor fan content with MEDIOCRITY and hoping for AVERAGE AT BEST. BOOM.

    I'm not happy to settle. If you are, you've picked the right team to cheer for it would appear.
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've been called worse by better.... so there you go. But thanks anyways.

    My BOOM showed you're a fan of mediocrity. You have done nothing to show DeRozan is not what I say: an average at best SG who settles for long 2s and is mediocre on defense. You are striving for a below average player to become average to a little above while making 2x the average player and over 3x the median. You are the classic Raptor fan which I myself was for many years.

    You keep spinning whatever fantasies you need to convince yourself whatever about what DeRozan will become. I've been down this road. It doesn't end where you hope.

    Bold 1: So? And? Where is the Raptors Billups? Prince? Wallace? Sheed? Brown?

    Bold 2: I'm the one who is happy to go in whatever direction but would prefer to part with Lowry and Gay. Why do I care? Because the Raptors are screwed with DeRozan one way or another. If they tank, he's already shown he can't handle being the guy and does nothing to help the team now. If they compete, he doesn't mesh with the talent currently under contract.
    In response to these statements I presented facts that showed otherwise. Instead of a similar response I got:

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Circles. That is all this is. I'm tired of it. I bet others are too. We'll all see soon enough. I hope nothing but the best for DD but I'm not betting on it.
    Really?

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