View Poll Results: Grade Derozan's Season.

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  • A

    1 1.49%
  • B

    18 26.87%
  • C

    40 59.70%
  • D

    8 11.94%
  • F

    0 0%
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Thread: Everything Demar Derozan

  1. #3621
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I agree. His midrange game has value, if it is used in that way, as an outlet from a paint/three attack, used in situations where the defense has buckled and the midrange shot is open. Used in isolation, it can be detrimental instead.
    Agreed. An iso that leads to a forced 18 footer, with a hand in his face, with time left on the clock.....there's no value in that. Instead it's almost as detrimental as a turnover.

    I say "almost" because sometimes, that shot goes in.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  3. #3622
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    From ESPN, http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...e-nba-playoffs



    I made a thread about this sometime in Decemberish.

    I think DD's midrange game has value, especially as defenses move to take away the paint and the three.
    There's nothing wrong with a good midrange game.

    There's a lot wrong with an ISO-oriented, inefficient midrange game that forces too many contested shots.


    One thing I absolutely agree with is that these trends are too often considered in a vacuum, out of context (as many stats are, in general). Analytics might tell a story, but you have to ensure that any particular story suits the strengths of the personnel on your roster, within the context of how your team is defended. There is an opportunity cost associated with every shot; yes, shot A might be a 'good' shot analytically, but is it still a 'good' shot when it's being taken by a player who doesn't necessarily excel at that type of shot, against a defense trying to prevent that type of shot, when a potentially better shot could readily be available?

    As trends for offense proliferate around the league, so to does the defensive trend designed to stop that offensive trend. It really shouldn't be a surprise that early adopters find the most success, or that new ideas emerge once a trend becomes too trendy.

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  5. #3623
    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    A PF with a good midrange game also draws defenders away from the basket, opening up the most efficient scoring area. A SG taking midrange jumpers doesn't have the same effect.

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  7. #3624
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    Also, Aldridge is hardly trailblazing here. Bosh has been doing the same thing for MIA the past 3 years, and they've gotten 2 championships out of it. Yes, they also had LBJ, but Bosh's stretch 4/5 game is VERY key to their success.

  8. #3625
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    There's nothing wrong with a good midrange game.

    There's a lot wrong with an ISO-oriented, inefficient midrange game that forces too many contested shots.


    One thing I absolutely agree with is that these trends are too often considered in a vacuum, out of context (as many stats are, in general). Analytics might tell a story, but you have to ensure that any particular story suits the strengths of the personnel on your roster, within the context of how your team is defended. There is an opportunity cost associated with every shot; yes, shot A might be a 'good' shot analytically, but is it still a 'good' shot when it's being taken by a player who doesn't necessarily excel at that type of shot, against a defense trying to prevent that type of shot, when a potentially better shot could readily be available?

    As trends for offense proliferate around the league, so to does the defensive trend designed to stop that offensive trend. It really shouldn't be a surprise that early adopters find the most success, or that new ideas emerge once a trend becomes too trendy.
    That's where the work that Kirk Goldsberry comes in. If you don't remember (there have been a few heavy analytical threads about some of his work this year), one of the things they were attempting to quantify is the value in making the right decision and getting the best shot. The example they used the most was from the Spurs game, when Parker came off a Duncan screen and had a wide open (game-tying) lay-up, but instead passed the ball to Kwahi Leonard for an open corner 3 and the win. The projected point total from Parker taking the lay-up was fairly high (say 0.78) but since Kwahi was open (unguarded by 5 feet), set for a catch and shoot (factoring in Kwahi is a great catch and shoot corner 3 guy) and it was for 3 points, the projected point total increased to 0.91. So while passing up an open lay-up for an open 3, with the game on the line may not be everyone's choice (risk/reward is a personal choice), Parker made the statistically smart play.

    Here's the original article
    http://grantland.com/features/expect...nba-analytics/

    And the subsequent RR thread
    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...Make-EPVA-Stat
    F*ck Brooklyn

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  10. #3626
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    Heck, Chris Paul was at his best when he was operating with David West as his stretch 4 pop guy.

  11. #3627
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    A PF with a good midrange game also draws defenders away from the basket, opening up the most efficient scoring area. A SG taking midrange jumpers doesn't have the same effect.
    That's a good point.

  12. #3628
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Also, Aldridge is hardly trailblazing here. Bosh has been doing the same thing for MIA the past 3 years, and they've gotten 2 championships out of it. Yes, they also had LBJ, but Bosh's stretch 4/5 game is VERY key to their success.
    Dirk anyone?

    Aldridge typically isn't even that efficient usually.. he's just been crazy hot, like...scorching inferno hot so far this series.

    I like a good midrange game, but like said above, depends how you get those shots.

  13. #3629
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Dirk anyone?

    Aldridge typically isn't even that efficient usually.. he's just been crazy hot, like...scorching inferno hot so far this series.

    I like a good midrange game, but like said above, depends how you get those shots.
    I think Aldridge was actually pretty crappy in game 1 from midrange.

    Made like 30% of his shots or something, but he was pulling Howard out of the paint.

  14. #3630
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I think Aldridge was actually pretty crappy in game 1 from midrange.

    Made like 30% of his shots or something, but he was pulling Howard out of the paint.
    Ah k, he was just so dominant that I didn't bother checking the stats. G1 he dominated the boards and inside, even hit a couple of threes..g2 was practically all mid rangers/long twos though. Was pretty crazy.

  15. #3631
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Ah k, he was just so dominant that I didn't bother checking the stats. G1 he dominated the boards and inside, even hit a couple of threes..g2 was practically all mid rangers/long twos though. Was pretty crazy.
    I think that might be why he's so effective, the ability to score from everywhere.

    DD has to spread his game out a little more, either by becoming a better ballhandler to allow him to penetrate the D a little better, or by stretching his range.

  16. #3632
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I think that might be why he's so effective, the ability to score from everywhere.

    DD has to spread his game out a little more, either by becoming a better ballhandler to allow him to penetrate the D a little better, or by stretching his range.
    I think thats the biggest limitation to his game right now. Many of us tend to focus on his D and 3pt shooting, but a better handle would make him so much more effective and a much better playmaker. I think he should concentrate on that in the offseason. There is lots of time for him to improve his 3pt shooting.

  17. #3633
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    #StankFace


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  19. #3634
    Raptors Republic All-Star Raptorsnz's Avatar
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    Watching James Harden the last 2 games in the Blazers-Rockets series has really made me appreciate DeMar more aesthetically. Yes DeMar takes a lot of mid range shots but there are possessions when Harden literally just holds the ball on the wing for 5 seconds without dribbling before doing anything. And even then he'll probably take an awful step back shot or flail for free throws.

    Plus DeMar has one of the prettiest jump shots in the NBA (probably since it looks like Kobe's).

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  21. #3635
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
    #StankFace

    Lol, almost worthy of:

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  23. #3636
    Raptors Republic All-Star consmap's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsnz wrote: View Post
    Watching James Harden the last 2 games in the Blazers-Rockets series has really made me appreciate DeMar more aesthetically. Yes DeMar takes a lot of mid range shots but there are possessions when Harden literally just holds the ball on the wing for 5 seconds without dribbling before doing anything. And even then he'll probably take an awful step back shot or flail for free throws.

    Plus DeMar has one of the prettiest jump shots in the NBA (probably since it looks like Kobe's).
    Also, we can be thankful that despite DeMar's lackluster defense, it isn't as bad as Harden's.

  24. #3637
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote consmap wrote: View Post
    Also, we can be thankful that despite DeMar's lackluster defense, it isn't as bad as Harden's.
    Harden doesn't even seem like he's trying.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  25. #3638
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    DeMar DeRozan is one of the young players making statements in the NBA Playoffs. Good read.

    http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/24/56...damian-lillard
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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  27. #3639
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    This won't swing the debate one way or the other but was anyone else taking it for granted that DeMar would make those free throws at the end of the game even though they were game changing free throws in the last minute of his second playoff game ever and one of only a few, if that, broadcast across the U.S.? That speaks to some talent.
    It's not just about Lowry...It's about the 3 spot.

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  29. #3640
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    DeMar DeRozan is one of the young players making statements in the NBA Playoffs. Good read.

    http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/24/56...damian-lillard
    Definitely agree with this bit:
    Then there are the Toronto Raptors, who won a franchise-record 48 games and are learning very quickly what it takes to be successful in April. The first round matchup with the veteran-heavy Nets may be daunting, but it's the best thing that could have happened to them. If they find a way to win, it will accelerate their learning curve. Even if they lose in six or seven games, the experience will be invaluable.
    Playing in these games, against guys like Pierce and Garnett is unlike anything you'll get out of practicing in the off-season.
    In Masai we Trust.

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